Aircraft down at Blackbushe?
Discussion
Sad. Tragic, even, for the families of those who've died in this accident. But it isn't the first Blackbushe crash, nor will it likely be the last.
What's bugged me about this story is the news reporting, especially on BBC local news.
What no-one appears to have mentioned is that the bottom south-west corner of the airfield, just off the taxiway, next to the fence between airfield and auction site, is exactly where the fuel bowsers were kept in the past. Not sure if they still have them, or a 'petrol pump' affair like White Waltham, but that fireball was worryingly close to where aviation fuel used to be stored, right alongside the busy A30.
I'm glad I took my road bike out this afternoon now. I went to Leith Hill. If I'd have taken my mountain bike out, I'd no doubt have ended up riding around the perimeter of Blackbushe at just about the time those poor folk were trying to land...
What's bugged me about this story is the news reporting, especially on BBC local news.
BBC reporter said:
This is Jenny. Her garden backs onto the runway...
errrm? No it feckin' well doesn't. Nobody's garden "backs onto" the Blackbushe runway. To the East the approach is over empty heath and woodland. To the West, apart from the parking area for the BCA auction site, the approach is pretty clear too. In fact there are far fewer properties under the 'risky phase' flight path than at Farnborough. There's only the one runway that's serviceable at the 'Bushe - this plane was coming in on 25. The other two runways (throwovers from the wartime 'A' form) are not useable. These are the runways that Jenny is claiming her garden "backs onto". There were other glaring errors in the report too, but I don't want to deflect the thread with a rant. Suffice to say, journalist types, if you don't have facts, and/or if they haven't been checked, then please don't present them to us as 'facts'.What no-one appears to have mentioned is that the bottom south-west corner of the airfield, just off the taxiway, next to the fence between airfield and auction site, is exactly where the fuel bowsers were kept in the past. Not sure if they still have them, or a 'petrol pump' affair like White Waltham, but that fireball was worryingly close to where aviation fuel used to be stored, right alongside the busy A30.
I'm glad I took my road bike out this afternoon now. I went to Leith Hill. If I'd have taken my mountain bike out, I'd no doubt have ended up riding around the perimeter of Blackbushe at just about the time those poor folk were trying to land...
Scary thought.
As I cycled past the end of runway 24 at Farnborough this afternoon, there were two women with about half a dozen kids mucking about on the grass alongside the fence opposite the end of Rae Road. I wondered what they were up to, but as a small business jet came in, the kids all laid down on their backs on the grass, looking straight up as the 'plane came over the fence. Much joviality was witnessed, the kids were shrieking and having a whale of a time. I wonder if those two mums/childminders will be so keen to repeat that little outing, given what happened with a very similar aircraft the very same afternoon just up the road?
As I cycled past the end of runway 24 at Farnborough this afternoon, there were two women with about half a dozen kids mucking about on the grass alongside the fence opposite the end of Rae Road. I wondered what they were up to, but as a small business jet came in, the kids all laid down on their backs on the grass, looking straight up as the 'plane came over the fence. Much joviality was witnessed, the kids were shrieking and having a whale of a time. I wonder if those two mums/childminders will be so keen to repeat that little outing, given what happened with a very similar aircraft the very same afternoon just up the road?
Edited by yellowjack on Saturday 1st August 00:47
VernalEquinox said:
yellowjack said:
given what happened with a very similar aircraft the very same afternoon just up the road?
Of course this aircraft crashed at the other end of its landing run, but let's not let the facts get in the way of a good 'What if?'
...and it wasn't really meant as a "What if?" - it was just an observation based on the coincidence of seeing the kids out enjoying themselves at the end of one local 'Runway 24' when the accident occurred at another local 'Runway 25' not 8 miles away (by road) on the very same afternoon.
Edited by yellowjack on Saturday 1st August 00:15
carinaman said:
onyx39 said:
Twitter saying was Osama's dad, sister, brother in law and half brother.
BBC News saying Bin Laden's family. Karma?Perhaps the UK authorities should have locked our neighbour, and friendly local postman up when I was a kid. Both his sons spent long spells detained at Her Majesty's Pleasure, for armed robbery and manslaughter. Guilt by association would have seen the postie and his wife locked up for a similar length of time, but as far as the community could tell, they were as aghast at their sons' behaviour as the rest of us.
So please. Leave such nonsense alone. It's called 'speaking ill of the dead, it's deeply unpleasant, and probably says more about you than it does about the Bin Laden family, if it is them that lost their lives in this sad accident. Karma? Even if such a notion exists, it's more likely that an accident like this is down to 'playing the odds'. To quote 'Just Looking' by the Stereophonics - "They say the more you fly, the more you risk your life". The risk of a fatal air crash is a fairly predictable one. They don't happen often, and as such we all accept the level of risk and decide to get on an aeroplane. If you are a private jet frequent flyer, you expose yourself to the (admittedly small) risk on a more regular basis, and are therefore statistically more likely to be involved when that fatal incident does come around. So it's not Karma, just increased exposure to known risks which has sadly caught up with this family in the end. If the nationality, or family surname of the deceased reduces your level of sympathy for their loss in a tragedy like this, then I'm inclined to be of the opinion that you are a heartless xenophobe.
Me? It saddens me that they've been killed. I won't be placing flowers at the scene, but then I wouldn't be doing that if it were Mr and Mrs Smith of Hartley Wintney, neither. Unless of course the deceased were known to me before their untimely demise.
It's a strange coincidence.
In one of the other threads they mentioned odd symmetries in life. Possibly a decade ago now a teenager beat and killed a pensioner at a bus stop due to some altercation. The lad's father thought it had involved his son and told the police or handed him in. After the young man was released from prison for killing that pensioner he was killed in a car crash.
Karma, coincidence, odd symmetries, what goes around comes around etc.
In one of the other threads they mentioned odd symmetries in life. Possibly a decade ago now a teenager beat and killed a pensioner at a bus stop due to some altercation. The lad's father thought it had involved his son and told the police or handed him in. After the young man was released from prison for killing that pensioner he was killed in a car crash.
Karma, coincidence, odd symmetries, what goes around comes around etc.
Anyways, it's not the first time something like this has happened at Blackbushe...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1084772.stm
...five were killed in December 2000 when a Beechcraft King Air crashed into a unit on the nearby business park after taking off in fog. Several noted crashes of much larger aircraft in the 1950s too, when Blackbushe's operating area straddled the A30, and it was even touted as a potential 'London airport' site at one point. It could have become something like Stansted/Gatwick, although I believe that particular idea was swiftly dropped. In those days it was quite a busy 'divert' hub for Heathrow (it was often able to operate when Heathrow was fogbound) and had a number of smaller independent airlines operating scheduled services.
Blackbushe's runway was longer in it's RAF and immediate postwar days. The Eastern end of '25' was built on Common Land though, and although traces remain, and the layout is clear from aerial photography, it has mostly returned to the heathland it once was.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1084772.stm
...five were killed in December 2000 when a Beechcraft King Air crashed into a unit on the nearby business park after taking off in fog. Several noted crashes of much larger aircraft in the 1950s too, when Blackbushe's operating area straddled the A30, and it was even touted as a potential 'London airport' site at one point. It could have become something like Stansted/Gatwick, although I believe that particular idea was swiftly dropped. In those days it was quite a busy 'divert' hub for Heathrow (it was often able to operate when Heathrow was fogbound) and had a number of smaller independent airlines operating scheduled services.
Blackbushe's runway was longer in it's RAF and immediate postwar days. The Eastern end of '25' was built on Common Land though, and although traces remain, and the layout is clear from aerial photography, it has mostly returned to the heathland it once was.
yellowjack said:
That's a pretty mean opinion, to be fair. Bin Laden was the planet's most wanted man for a while, but ended up getting what the President of the good ol' US of A reckoned he had coming. His family were NOT wanted men and women, and quite likely shared none of Osama's ideology.
Perhaps the UK authorities should have locked our neighbour, and friendly local postman up when I was a kid. Both his sons spent long spells detained at Her Majesty's Pleasure, for armed robbery and manslaughter. Guilt by association would have seen the postie and his wife locked up for a similar length of time, but as far as the community could tell, they were as aghast at their sons' behaviour as the rest of us.
So please. Leave such nonsense alone. It's called 'speaking ill of the dead, it's deeply unpleasant, and probably says more about you than it does about the Bin Laden family, if it is them that lost their lives in this sad accident. Karma? Even if such a notion exists, it's more likely that an accident like this is down to 'playing the odds'. To quote 'Just Looking' by the Stereophonics - "They say the more you fly, the more you risk your life". The risk of a fatal air crash is a fairly predictable one. They don't happen often, and as such we all accept the level of risk and decide to get on an aeroplane. If you are a private jet frequent flyer, you expose yourself to the (admittedly small) risk on a more regular basis, and are therefore statistically more likely to be involved when that fatal incident does come around. So it's not Karma, just increased exposure to known risks which has sadly caught up with this family in the end. If the nationality, or family surname of the deceased reduces your level of sympathy for their loss in a tragedy like this, then I'm inclined to be of the opinion that you are a heartless xenophobe.
Me? It saddens me that they've been killed. I won't be placing flowers at the scene, but then I wouldn't be doing that if it were Mr and Mrs Smith of Hartley Wintney, neither. Unless of course the deceased were known to me before their untimely demise.
9/11 death toll rises as cancer cases soar among emergency workersPerhaps the UK authorities should have locked our neighbour, and friendly local postman up when I was a kid. Both his sons spent long spells detained at Her Majesty's Pleasure, for armed robbery and manslaughter. Guilt by association would have seen the postie and his wife locked up for a similar length of time, but as far as the community could tell, they were as aghast at their sons' behaviour as the rest of us.
So please. Leave such nonsense alone. It's called 'speaking ill of the dead, it's deeply unpleasant, and probably says more about you than it does about the Bin Laden family, if it is them that lost their lives in this sad accident. Karma? Even if such a notion exists, it's more likely that an accident like this is down to 'playing the odds'. To quote 'Just Looking' by the Stereophonics - "They say the more you fly, the more you risk your life". The risk of a fatal air crash is a fairly predictable one. They don't happen often, and as such we all accept the level of risk and decide to get on an aeroplane. If you are a private jet frequent flyer, you expose yourself to the (admittedly small) risk on a more regular basis, and are therefore statistically more likely to be involved when that fatal incident does come around. So it's not Karma, just increased exposure to known risks which has sadly caught up with this family in the end. If the nationality, or family surname of the deceased reduces your level of sympathy for their loss in a tragedy like this, then I'm inclined to be of the opinion that you are a heartless xenophobe.
Me? It saddens me that they've been killed. I won't be placing flowers at the scene, but then I wouldn't be doing that if it were Mr and Mrs Smith of Hartley Wintney, neither. Unless of course the deceased were known to me before their untimely demise.
More than 2,500 New York police, firefighters, ambulance and sanitation workers now have the disease..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northame...
Even from beyond the grave his evil still reaches out...
The runway is only very marginally long enough for a Phenom and the single pilot flying it appears to have made an approach about 30kts too fast and a bit high over the threshold. So. He came off the end.
Yo can do things in private jets that you can't do in public transport ops using the same aircraft.
No commercial operator would have gone in there due to the runway length. The Jordanian guy flying this aircraft felt it was ok. He was wrong. Aviation is unforgiving.
Yo can do things in private jets that you can't do in public transport ops using the same aircraft.
No commercial operator would have gone in there due to the runway length. The Jordanian guy flying this aircraft felt it was ok. He was wrong. Aviation is unforgiving.
I cycled past Blackbushe this afternoon.
Runway was closed, with three people walking on the western end of the runway, wellies and white overalls, so perhaps from AAIB. One of the crash tenders was sat in the western corner of the field, and there was a police car sat in the BCA compound presumably to maintain the integrity of the scene. As I rode past, there was a TV broadcast van leaving the BCA site. All in all, very much "nothing to see here".
Recovery of the remains, recovery of the aircraft, and await the AAIB report now. Flying will resume, and much like the 2000 crash, this will fade in people's memory, until the next time.
I couldn't see any impact through the trees, but the 'fence' at this end of the runway is actually a grassy earth bank. If the aircraft clipped that, then there was no chance of recovering it to 'go around' again.
Runway was closed, with three people walking on the western end of the runway, wellies and white overalls, so perhaps from AAIB. One of the crash tenders was sat in the western corner of the field, and there was a police car sat in the BCA compound presumably to maintain the integrity of the scene. As I rode past, there was a TV broadcast van leaving the BCA site. All in all, very much "nothing to see here".
Recovery of the remains, recovery of the aircraft, and await the AAIB report now. Flying will resume, and much like the 2000 crash, this will fade in people's memory, until the next time.
I couldn't see any impact through the trees, but the 'fence' at this end of the runway is actually a grassy earth bank. If the aircraft clipped that, then there was no chance of recovering it to 'go around' again.
Yes it's not 'far off' the length required with suitable margin for safety that public transport regs demand. He was probably not far off coming to a halt when he came off the end either...
Plus he was hot and high on his approach and because he was operating single crew there was nobody else at the controls to tell him to go around. Private jet operations have grown rapidly since Mr Bin Ladens efforts in New York. Which has sucked in some questionable people and practices.
Plus he was hot and high on his approach and because he was operating single crew there was nobody else at the controls to tell him to go around. Private jet operations have grown rapidly since Mr Bin Ladens efforts in New York. Which has sucked in some questionable people and practices.
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff