Gnat Crash At Carfest
Discussion
dr_gn said:
Thing is...does it really matter?
Everyone's got an opinion, and the poster in question seems to have an informed opinion. You can argue about their tone, and possibly their conclusions, but not the reasoning behind their conclusions.
It's an anonymous internet forum, not necessarily a charm school.
I suppose it depends on why you use the forum and what enjoyment you get from it. Everyone's got an opinion, and the poster in question seems to have an informed opinion. You can argue about their tone, and possibly their conclusions, but not the reasoning behind their conclusions.
It's an anonymous internet forum, not necessarily a charm school.
If you constantly read posts from people that annoy you, you're unlikely to keep reading or want to join in.
Pprune used to be a great little forum when it started but now it has lots of posters who post in the same style as whatshisface, so I and many others I work with don't read it anymore. This PH sub forum is usually friendly AND informative. If i just want aviation facts I can find them on other aviation websites without the added judgy superior comments.
Just sent out by Vulcan to the Sky...
Remembering Kevin Whyman - Gnat Display Team
Kev_Whyman Everyone at the Vulcan to the Sky Trust would like to express their sorrow and sincere condolences to the family, friends and work colleagues of a talented pilot, Kevin Whyman, who tragically lost his life in an accident on Saturday.
The Gnat Display team is part of The Heritage Aircraft Trust, who have been tremendous friends to XH558. Our thoughts are with Kevin’s wife and young daughter at this very sad time.
XH558’s chief pilot, Martin Withers, knew Kevin and flew with the team last year. He has asked us to publish this tribute on his behalf.
A TRIBUTE TO KEV WHYMAN
Kev Wyman was an exceptionally talented pilot with a close association with 558, who lost his life last Saturday at CarFest North at Oulton Park when his Folland Gnat crashed during his exciting display of formation flying.
Kev loved flying, won a Flying Scholarship with the RAF at 18, studied Economics at Cambridge where he became a member of the University Air Squadron and almost inevitably joined the RAF in 1998 where he gained his skills at flying fast jets.
Kev was clever and ambitious and left the RAF for a career in finance in the City, rapidly becoming a successful member of the team at Credit Suisse. But his love of flying did not diminish and he started flying the Gnat at North Weald in 2005, where he gathered like-minded people to found the Gnat Display Team in 2007.
He quickly became a well-known and popular member of the UK display community and developed an impressive show of synchronised display flying, with his fellow team member Mark Fitzgerald, so reminiscent of the Red Arrows displays flown in the Gnat during the late 60s and 70s before the Hawk came into service.
By 2014, the Red Gnats/Gnat Display Team were displaying with either 2 or 3 aircraft with Chris Heames as their instructor, mentor, supervisor and 3-ship leader, and were recognised as a highly professional display team delighting crowds at displays all over the country.
Kev, affectionately known as ‘Jester’ within the team for always having a laugh, was inspirational in leading this enthusiastic group of pilots. He loved to fly the Gnat and ably supported by highly skilled display pilots, Chris Heames and Willy Hackett, was able to display the Gnats (of similar vintage to the Vulcan) to their full potential.
In 2014 I was privileged to be invited to fly in the lead aircraft of the 3-ship, with Kev and Mark on the wing, to practise their displays. I was thrilled by the experience but more importantly, most impressed by the precision of the pilots, particularly when crossing a few feet apart at a closing speed of around 600kts! Kev certainly was a highly skilled pilot.
Later in the season 558 flew in formation with Chris, Kev and Mark at Dunsfold. This was a wonderful sight and quite an experience for Kev Rumens and Phill O’Dell in the Vulcan.
Our thoughts and condolences are now with his wife and family at this very sad time.
He was a great guy and will be sorely missed.
Martin Withers
Remembering Kevin Whyman - Gnat Display Team
Kev_Whyman Everyone at the Vulcan to the Sky Trust would like to express their sorrow and sincere condolences to the family, friends and work colleagues of a talented pilot, Kevin Whyman, who tragically lost his life in an accident on Saturday.
The Gnat Display team is part of The Heritage Aircraft Trust, who have been tremendous friends to XH558. Our thoughts are with Kevin’s wife and young daughter at this very sad time.
XH558’s chief pilot, Martin Withers, knew Kevin and flew with the team last year. He has asked us to publish this tribute on his behalf.
A TRIBUTE TO KEV WHYMAN
Kev Wyman was an exceptionally talented pilot with a close association with 558, who lost his life last Saturday at CarFest North at Oulton Park when his Folland Gnat crashed during his exciting display of formation flying.
Kev loved flying, won a Flying Scholarship with the RAF at 18, studied Economics at Cambridge where he became a member of the University Air Squadron and almost inevitably joined the RAF in 1998 where he gained his skills at flying fast jets.
Kev was clever and ambitious and left the RAF for a career in finance in the City, rapidly becoming a successful member of the team at Credit Suisse. But his love of flying did not diminish and he started flying the Gnat at North Weald in 2005, where he gathered like-minded people to found the Gnat Display Team in 2007.
He quickly became a well-known and popular member of the UK display community and developed an impressive show of synchronised display flying, with his fellow team member Mark Fitzgerald, so reminiscent of the Red Arrows displays flown in the Gnat during the late 60s and 70s before the Hawk came into service.
By 2014, the Red Gnats/Gnat Display Team were displaying with either 2 or 3 aircraft with Chris Heames as their instructor, mentor, supervisor and 3-ship leader, and were recognised as a highly professional display team delighting crowds at displays all over the country.
Kev, affectionately known as ‘Jester’ within the team for always having a laugh, was inspirational in leading this enthusiastic group of pilots. He loved to fly the Gnat and ably supported by highly skilled display pilots, Chris Heames and Willy Hackett, was able to display the Gnats (of similar vintage to the Vulcan) to their full potential.
In 2014 I was privileged to be invited to fly in the lead aircraft of the 3-ship, with Kev and Mark on the wing, to practise their displays. I was thrilled by the experience but more importantly, most impressed by the precision of the pilots, particularly when crossing a few feet apart at a closing speed of around 600kts! Kev certainly was a highly skilled pilot.
Later in the season 558 flew in formation with Chris, Kev and Mark at Dunsfold. This was a wonderful sight and quite an experience for Kev Rumens and Phill O’Dell in the Vulcan.
Our thoughts and condolences are now with his wife and family at this very sad time.
He was a great guy and will be sorely missed.
Martin Withers
dr_gn said:
Thing is...does it really matter?
Everyone's got an opinion, and the poster in question seems to have an informed opinion. You can argue about their tone, and possibly their conclusions, but not the reasoning behind their conclusions.
It's an anonymous internet forum, not necessarily a charm school.
I agree that he or she has informed opinions that are well worth discussing. The problem is that s/he regards them as incontrovertible facts and rather than discuss evidence relies on an approach of 'I've made my mind up and that settles it' combined with emotive language.Everyone's got an opinion, and the poster in question seems to have an informed opinion. You can argue about their tone, and possibly their conclusions, but not the reasoning behind their conclusions.
It's an anonymous internet forum, not necessarily a charm school.
Dr Jekyll said:
dr_gn said:
Thing is...does it really matter?
Everyone's got an opinion, and the poster in question seems to have an informed opinion. You can argue about their tone, and possibly their conclusions, but not the reasoning behind their conclusions.
It's an anonymous internet forum, not necessarily a charm school.
I agree that he or she has informed opinions that are well worth discussing. The problem is that s/he regards them as incontrovertible facts and rather than discuss evidence relies on an approach of 'I've made my mind up and that settles it' combined with emotive language.Everyone's got an opinion, and the poster in question seems to have an informed opinion. You can argue about their tone, and possibly their conclusions, but not the reasoning behind their conclusions.
It's an anonymous internet forum, not necessarily a charm school.
No matter how you cut it or dress it up, those are the facts.
dr_gn said:
Everyone's got an opinion, and the poster in question seems to have an informed opinion. You can argue about their tone, and possibly their conclusions, but not the reasoning behind their conclusions.
I suppose it is only one opinion as well. It's an assumption, but if Chris Heames is the 'Chief Pilot' then:"13500 total flying hours of which 6000 are fast jet and 3500 gliding. His experience spans a diverse array of aircraft from including Tucano, Yak, Gnat, Hunter, Tornado, Lightning, Phantom and L29, Avro Tutor, Tiger Moth, Chipmunk and Bulldog"
along with:
"Chris brings an incredible depth of experience and professionalism to display flying and currently helps a number of teams bring their product to the European airshow circuit, acting as display pilot and team mentor."
gives him an equally, if not more valid opinion on what (who) is safe and what isn't. I'd say it's extremely likely that the display would not go ahead if he didn't believe that the risk was sufficiently minimised.
dr_gn said:
Dr Jekyll said:
dr_gn said:
Thing is...does it really matter?
Everyone's got an opinion, and the poster in question seems to have an informed opinion. You can argue about their tone, and possibly their conclusions, but not the reasoning behind their conclusions.
It's an anonymous internet forum, not necessarily a charm school.
I agree that he or she has informed opinions that are well worth discussing. The problem is that s/he regards them as incontrovertible facts and rather than discuss evidence relies on an approach of 'I've made my mind up and that settles it' combined with emotive language.Everyone's got an opinion, and the poster in question seems to have an informed opinion. You can argue about their tone, and possibly their conclusions, but not the reasoning behind their conclusions.
It's an anonymous internet forum, not necessarily a charm school.
No matter how you cut it or dress it up, those are the facts.
Just because the aircraft was old and fast doesn't in itself mean that those are the factors that caused the accident. Just because the pilot was a civilian doesn't make him an idiot.
el stovey said:
dr_gn said:
Thing is...does it really matter?
Everyone's got an opinion, and the poster in question seems to have an informed opinion. You can argue about their tone, and possibly their conclusions, but not the reasoning behind their conclusions.
It's an anonymous internet forum, not necessarily a charm school.
I suppose it depends on why you use the forum and what enjoyment you get from it. Everyone's got an opinion, and the poster in question seems to have an informed opinion. You can argue about their tone, and possibly their conclusions, but not the reasoning behind their conclusions.
It's an anonymous internet forum, not necessarily a charm school.
If you constantly read posts from people that annoy you, you're unlikely to keep reading or want to join in.
Pprune used to be a great little forum when it started but now it has lots of posters who post in the same style as whatshisface, so I and many others I work with don't read it anymore. This PH sub forum is usually friendly AND informative. If i just want aviation facts I can find them on other aviation websites without the added judgy superior comments.
But your right PH had a great little Aviation subsection until Peter Skellan came along. Yes the odd grumble at Ginetta for being a bit abrupt and occasionally getting moaned at by Eric for our use of technical terms but other than that (and I look at that now and see the funny side) but now I just don't want to read or contribute.
ecsrobin said:
But your right PH had a great little Aviation subsection until Peter Skellan came along. Yes the odd grumble at Ginetta for being a bit abrupt and occasionally getting moaned at by Eric for our use of technical terms but other than that (and I look at that now and see the funny side) but now I just don't want to read or contribute.
Chill, Winston. He's just a piece of Proon-scum that's drifted in on the breeze, I can't see him lasting long.I, for one, look forward to seeing him go up against Ginetta Girl, given that I'm completely confident she will inevitably perform the hitherto unwitnessed recursive trick of tearing this complete a
hole an entirely new ahole.eharding said:
ecsrobin said:
But your right PH had a great little Aviation subsection until Peter Skellan came along. Yes the odd grumble at Ginetta for being a bit abrupt and occasionally getting moaned at by Eric for our use of technical terms but other than that (and I look at that now and see the funny side) but now I just don't want to read or contribute.
Chill, Winston. He's just a piece of Proon-scum that's drifted in on the breeze, I can't see him lasting long.I, for one, look forward to seeing him go up against Ginetta Girl, given that I'm completely confident she will inevitably perform the hitherto unwitnessed recursive trick of tearing this complete a
hole an entirely new ahole.Joey Ramone said:
I thought she flew C-130's? Why does that mean she'll tear him a new one?
As an unexpected reaction to CL's charming manner and unprovocative style, perhaps?This character has a long and undistinguished record of outstanding habitual pugnacious spite-driven arse-hattery over on Pprune (which, given the ambient level of bell-endedness in some parts of that province, is saying something). The only question is how long we'll have to keep the windows open to clear the smell once he leaves this normally cheerful and jovial corner of PH.
MartG said:
Just sent out by Vulcan to the Sky...
Our thoughts and condolences are now with his wife and family at this very sad time.
Thanks for posting that MartG.Our thoughts and condolences are now with his wife and family at this very sad time.
Having been at Oulton Park over the weekend, I'm upset that by far the most important thing about this accident appears to have been overlooked amongst the bickering in the last few pages of this thread.
Whatever the cause was, someone lost their life on Saturday afternoon and the lives of his family and friends will have changed forever.
eharding said:
ecsrobin said:
But your right PH had a great little Aviation subsection until Peter Skellan came along. Yes the odd grumble at Ginetta for being a bit abrupt and occasionally getting moaned at by Eric for our use of technical terms but other than that (and I look at that now and see the funny side) but now I just don't want to read or contribute.
Chill, Winston. He's just a piece of Proon-scum that's drifted in on the breeze, I can't see him lasting long.I, for one, look forward to seeing him go up against Ginetta Girl, given that I'm completely confident she will inevitably perform the hitherto unwitnessed recursive trick of tearing this complete a
hole an entirely new ahole.peter tdci said:
MartG said:
Just sent out by Vulcan to the Sky...
Our thoughts and condolences are now with his wife and family at this very sad time.
Thanks for posting that MartG.Our thoughts and condolences are now with his wife and family at this very sad time.
Having been at Oulton Park over the weekend, I'm upset that by far the most important thing about this accident appears to have been overlooked amongst the bickering in the last few pages of this thread.
Whatever the cause was, someone lost their life on Saturday afternoon and the lives of his family and friends will have changed forever.
It's largely his clear and repeated implication that the deceased was implicitly incompetent and a liability flying that aeroplane and we're all lucky he didn't kill more people sooner, unburdened by any actual facts that has pissed off near enough everyone with a sense of decorum and tact which has let to the direction this thread has taken.
dr_gn said:
eharding said:
ecsrobin said:
But your right PH had a great little Aviation subsection until Peter Skellan came along. Yes the odd grumble at Ginetta for being a bit abrupt and occasionally getting moaned at by Eric for our use of technical terms but other than that (and I look at that now and see the funny side) but now I just don't want to read or contribute.
Chill, Winston. He's just a piece of Proon-scum that's drifted in on the breeze, I can't see him lasting long.I, for one, look forward to seeing him go up against Ginetta Girl, given that I'm completely confident she will inevitably perform the hitherto unwitnessed recursive trick of tearing this complete a
hole an entirely new ahole.peter tdci's comment about the bickering is well made, but there comes a point when folk like CL using tragic events like this to hawk their own agendas - for no purpose other than self-gratification - need to be told where to get off.
dr_gn said:
Who is Peter Skellan? Is this the same person as ConvertedLurker?
Googled his name, seems he's famous for annoying people on the Internet. 
http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/...
eharding said:
...or someone doing a very good impersonation thereof, as per his profile.
peter tdci's comment about the bickering is well made, but there comes a point when folk like CL using tragic events like this to hawk their own agendas - for no purpose other than self-gratification - need to be told where to get off.
Quite right. peter tdci's comment about the bickering is well made, but there comes a point when folk like CL using tragic events like this to hawk their own agendas - for no purpose other than self-gratification - need to be told where to get off.
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