Spitfire crash Biggin Hill
Discussion
Pan Pan Pan said:
oyster said:
Took my toddler up there to watch the planes today. Chose the wrong day.
The spitfire took off over us sounding very rough, pilot did a very tight low level turn to starboard to try to put down within the airfield.
He was lucky he used 29 to depart as not sure he'd have cleared the trees near the old RAF base if he was on 21.[/quoten
The strongest rule when an engine failure on take off occurs, is do not try to turn back to the airfield. but to choose a suitable landing place as near to straight ahead as possible
Any idea what height the pilot managed to achieve? Given the value of the aircraft, and the possibility that the engine was still producing `some' power, could this be why the pilot tried to
turn back?
Does anyone have any details of the height the pilot was able to achieve?
The spitfire took off over us sounding very rough, pilot did a very tight low level turn to starboard to try to put down within the airfield.
He was lucky he used 29 to depart as not sure he'd have cleared the trees near the old RAF base if he was on 21.[/quoten
The strongest rule when an engine failure on take off occurs, is do not try to turn back to the airfield. but to choose a suitable landing place as near to straight ahead as possible
Any idea what height the pilot managed to achieve? Given the value of the aircraft, and the possibility that the engine was still producing `some' power, could this be why the pilot tried to
turn back?
Does anyone have any details of the height the pilot was able to achieve?
Maybe it wasn't "textbook" but he got the right result.
Pan Pan Pan said:
oyster said:
Took my toddler up there to watch the planes today. Chose the wrong day.
The spitfire took off over us sounding very rough, pilot did a very tight low level turn to starboard to try to put down within the airfield.
He was lucky he used 29 to depart as not sure he'd have cleared the trees near the old RAF base if he was on 21.
The spitfire took off over us sounding very rough, pilot did a very tight low level turn to starboard to try to put down within the airfield.
He was lucky he used 29 to depart as not sure he'd have cleared the trees near the old RAF base if he was on 21.
The strongest rule when an engine failure on take off occurs, is do not try to turn back to the airfield. but to choose a suitable landing place as near to straight ahead as possible
Any idea what height the pilot managed to achieve? Given the value of the aircraft, and the possibility that the engine was still producing `some' power, could this be why the pilot tried to
turn back?
Does anyone have any details of the height the pilot was able to achieve?
I dislike the "always land ahead" stuff, as it limits people's thinking and if you can only fly an aircraft based on a prescriptive set of rules rather than being able to think your way out of a problem, then I'd rather you stayed on the ground.
Of course the average Cessna on a normal day won't have a chance of performing a 180 turn from 300ft when starting at 65kts, but with something high performance that might have a decent glide ratio and more energy, then it may in rare occasions be possible.
Edited by IforB on Monday 3rd August 09:10
IforB said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
oyster said:
Took my toddler up there to watch the planes today. Chose the wrong day.
The spitfire took off over us sounding very rough, pilot did a very tight low level turn to starboard to try to put down within the airfield.
He was lucky he used 29 to depart as not sure he'd have cleared the trees near the old RAF base if he was on 21.[/quoten
The strongest rule when an engine failure on take off occurs, is do not try to turn back to the airfield. but to choose a suitable landing place as near to straight ahead as possible
Any idea what height the pilot managed to achieve? Given the value of the aircraft, and the possibility that the engine was still producing `some' power, could this be why the pilot tried to
turn back?
Does anyone have any details of the height the pilot was able to achieve?
In an emergency, your first job is to try and survive without killing or hurting anyone else. There are times when it is perfectly possible to do a 180 and stick it back on the runway. It depends on the wind and especially the performance of the aircraft and whether there is any residual power left.The spitfire took off over us sounding very rough, pilot did a very tight low level turn to starboard to try to put down within the airfield.
He was lucky he used 29 to depart as not sure he'd have cleared the trees near the old RAF base if he was on 21.[/quoten
The strongest rule when an engine failure on take off occurs, is do not try to turn back to the airfield. but to choose a suitable landing place as near to straight ahead as possible
Any idea what height the pilot managed to achieve? Given the value of the aircraft, and the possibility that the engine was still producing `some' power, could this be why the pilot tried to
turn back?
Does anyone have any details of the height the pilot was able to achieve?
I dislike the "always land ahead" stuff, as it limits people's thinking and if you can only fly an aircraft based on a prescriptive set of rules rather than being able to think your way out of a problem, then I'd rather you stayed on the ground.
Of course the average Cessna on a normal day won't have a chance of performing a 180 turn from 300ft when starting at 65kts, but with something high performance that might have a decent glide ratio and more energy, then it may in rare occasions be possible.
Pan Pan Pan said:
The strongest rule when an engine failure on take off occurs, is do not try to turn back to the airfield. but to choose a suitable landing place as near to straight ahead as possible.
That may be the case for your average Civie flying a Spamcan but it is not a truism across the board.Aside from the fact that Central Flying School teaches Service pilots how and when to do 'turnbacks', the pilot in this case was Dan Griffiths, a hugely experienced Above the Average ex-Harrier jock and Test Pilot. He probably has more warbird flying hours than most, and I certainly would trust his judgement over most people's.
Roo said:
I think that's the one that flies over here quite a lot.
Certainly the one which overflies me in NW Kent almost daily has the black & white stripes under the wings (I know there is a technical term for those, someone cleverer than me will fill in that gap 
) and is, I am told, based at Biggin Hill, so unless they have more than one there in similar livery, it would seem likely that it's the same one.In fact it did overfly on Saturday afternoon, headed in the general direction of BH. What time did the crash occur? I was in the garden and didn't check the time it passed me but it would have been around 4pm. Didn't sound rough but was notably quieter than usual. Perhaps conserving/managing power, although that wouldn't necessarily explain why he then attempted another t/o (all assuming it was the same aircraft). Could it have been checked and given the all-clear?
CAPP0 said:
Certainly the one which overflies me in NW Kent almost daily has the black & white stripes under the wings (I know there is a technical term for those, someone cleverer than me will fill in that gap )
D -Day stripes - painted on aircraft taking part in the D-Day operation in an attempt to minimise friendly fire incidents. ) From my vantage point near the rwy I'd say he got to no more than 200-250 ft before a tight 180 to the right (actually more like a 200 deg turn).
I wouldn't want to put down in any fields ahead of the nose from Biggin, there's only a large valley in front with steep sides until you're a couple of miles out from departure.
I wouldn't want to put down in any fields ahead of the nose from Biggin, there's only a large valley in front with steep sides until you're a couple of miles out from departure.
Eric Mc said:
CAPP0 said:
Certainly the one which overflies me in NW Kent almost daily has the black & white stripes under the wings (I know there is a technical term for those, someone cleverer than me will fill in that gap )
D -Day stripes - painted on aircraft taking part in the D-Day operation in an attempt to minimise friendly fire incidents. ) ecsrobin said:
Eric Mc said:
CAPP0 said:
Certainly the one which overflies me in NW Kent almost daily has the black & white stripes under the wings (I know there is a technical term for those, someone cleverer than me will fill in that gap )
D -Day stripes - painted on aircraft taking part in the D-Day operation in an attempt to minimise friendly fire incidents. ) IforB said:
Of course the average Cessna on a normal day won't have a chance of performing a 180 turn from 300ft when starting at 65kts, but with something high performance that might have a decent glide ratio and more energy, then it may in rare occasions be possible.
OOI what is the approx glide ratio of a Spitfire? ecsrobin said:
Eric Mc said:
CAPP0 said:
Certainly the one which overflies me in NW Kent almost daily has the black & white stripes under the wings (I know there is a technical term for those, someone cleverer than me will fill in that gap )
D -Day stripes - painted on aircraft taking part in the D-Day operation in an attempt to minimise friendly fire incidents. ) Black and white stripes were also used in Korea and black and yellow) stripes were used during the Suez crisis.
RichB said:
IforB said:
Of course the average Cessna on a normal day won't have a chance of performing a 180 turn from 300ft when starting at 65kts, but with something high performance that might have a decent glide ratio and more energy, then it may in rare occasions be possible.
OOI what is the approx glide ratio of a Spitfire? Eric Mc said:
ecsrobin said:
Eric Mc said:
CAPP0 said:
Certainly the one which overflies me in NW Kent almost daily has the black & white stripes under the wings (I know there is a technical term for those, someone cleverer than me will fill in that gap )
D -Day stripes - painted on aircraft taking part in the D-Day operation in an attempt to minimise friendly fire incidents. ) Black and white stripes were also used in Korea and black and yellow) stripes were used during the Suez crisis.
And those of us who build model kits. I've NEVER seen a model with badly painted invasion stripes.
The truth is that some were painted well (usually at Maintenance Units and factories) and some were painted sloppilly - usually on active airfield by squadron personnel. The gliders in particular were very rough and ready.
The truth is that some were painted well (usually at Maintenance Units and factories) and some were painted sloppilly - usually on active airfield by squadron personnel. The gliders in particular were very rough and ready.
IforB said:
RichB said:
IforB said:
Of course the average Cessna on a normal day won't have a chance of performing a 180 turn from 300ft when starting at 65kts, but with something high performance that might have a decent glide ratio and more energy, then it may in rare occasions be possible.
OOI what is the approx glide ratio of a Spitfire? RichB said:
IforB said:
RichB said:
IforB said:
Of course the average Cessna on a normal day won't have a chance of performing a 180 turn from 300ft when starting at 65kts, but with something high performance that might have a decent glide ratio and more energy, then it may in rare occasions be possible.
OOI what is the approx glide ratio of a Spitfire? A Cessna has about a 9:1 glide ratio.
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