Crash at Shoreham Air show
Discussion
That wasn't clear at all.
No, the manner of their death could not have been anticipated... but the fact that they were there shows that they chose to disregard well-publicised warnings about spectating from that site.
What you don't seem to understand is that airshows that go on hiatus for a year don't come back. Shoreham's been cancelled, so has Southend, Kenley (well, that never ran, it was planned but got axed), Dawlish, Llandudno, Manchester Barton... and I fully expect many more to follow. These losses will be permanent. The shows will not return. The press and Campaign Against Aviation have seen to that. Many charities will lose out on untold millions in anticipated income.
BTW, over 3800 signatures on this, a day after it was started:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/120628
We all need to be writing to our MPs and councils covering areas which have airshows, responding to the CAA consultation etc to make it abundantly apparent that this effort to kill off airshows through greed, bureaucracy and kneejerk overreaction is not acceptable.
No, the manner of their death could not have been anticipated... but the fact that they were there shows that they chose to disregard well-publicised warnings about spectating from that site.
What you don't seem to understand is that airshows that go on hiatus for a year don't come back. Shoreham's been cancelled, so has Southend, Kenley (well, that never ran, it was planned but got axed), Dawlish, Llandudno, Manchester Barton... and I fully expect many more to follow. These losses will be permanent. The shows will not return. The press and Campaign Against Aviation have seen to that. Many charities will lose out on untold millions in anticipated income.
BTW, over 3800 signatures on this, a day after it was started:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/120628
We all need to be writing to our MPs and councils covering areas which have airshows, responding to the CAA consultation etc to make it abundantly apparent that this effort to kill off airshows through greed, bureaucracy and kneejerk overreaction is not acceptable.
Edited by RoverP6B on Friday 5th February 15:55
RoverP6B said:
That wasn't clear at all.
No, the manner of their death could not have been anticipated... but the fact that they were there shows that they chose to disregard well-publicised warnings about spectating from that site.
Stop saying that. I live nearby. It's been on my cycle route for 25 years : I actually have to stop there several times a week on my bike. The bit on the Lancing college / Sussex pad junction is a piece of country side, high grass at all. There can't be any warnings as there is nothing illegal: people were told not to get run over by a car and not let their kids run across the A27, which has nothing to do with the airshow as there are people there all day every weekend, ramblers, cyclists etc. Those people had done nothing wrong. They didn't get ran over by a car. No, the manner of their death could not have been anticipated... but the fact that they were there shows that they chose to disregard well-publicised warnings about spectating from that site.
The fact that the aircraft struck the ground at that angle of bank tells one a lot - as does the fact that thousands of eyewitnesses independently made the same claim, which appears to be supported by the photographic and video evidence.
Cmoose, I have no agenda, and I actually agreed with you long ago that there was no anticipation of those fatalities being caused by an aircraft crashing onto the road. I have simply stated, correctly and accurately, that efforts had been made beforehand to dissuade people from congregating at that spot, and that as such, they should not have been there.
Cmoose, I have no agenda, and I actually agreed with you long ago that there was no anticipation of those fatalities being caused by an aircraft crashing onto the road. I have simply stated, correctly and accurately, that efforts had been made beforehand to dissuade people from congregating at that spot, and that as such, they should not have been there.
As for the CAA's kneejerk overreaction and the devastation it's going to cause... http://www.peoplesmosquito.org.uk/2016/02/05/poten...
RoverP6B said:
The fact that the aircraft struck the ground at that angle of bank tells one a lot - as does the fact that thousands of eyewitnesses independently made the same claim, which appears to be supported by the photographic and video evidence.
As someone who was at the show watching the horror unfold just exactly what does it tell one?Edited by HoHoHo on Friday 5th February 17:08
1) I'm not denigrating anyone
2) It's not irrelevant. They were pretty much under the flight-line, which is bloody stupid.
If the P-38 hadn't been affected by an asymmetric control surface deployment, as many eyewitnesses stated, the roll would have been stopped well before the point of impact, and any crash would have occurred wings-level. As it was, if you examine the (admittedly low-quality) videos, there's definitely something odd going on with the trailing edge of the wing...
2) It's not irrelevant. They were pretty much under the flight-line, which is bloody stupid.
If the P-38 hadn't been affected by an asymmetric control surface deployment, as many eyewitnesses stated, the roll would have been stopped well before the point of impact, and any crash would have occurred wings-level. As it was, if you examine the (admittedly low-quality) videos, there's definitely something odd going on with the trailing edge of the wing...
RoverP6B said:
1) I'm not denigrating anyone
2) It's not irrelevant. They were pretty much under the flight-line, which is bloody stupid.
Well then perhaps you'd welcome the opportunity to meet with the familes of said victims in order that you may tell them, precisely how stupid their loved ones were? 2) It's not irrelevant. They were pretty much under the flight-line, which is bloody stupid.
Once you are done with that, you should also meet with all of the people who used the road during the air show just to make it clear to them how stupid they were and how lucky they are to still be here.
Or you could just accept that you are wrong.......
Of course the same does not apply to those simply using the road, but those who were spectating from by the Sussex Pad were exposing themselves to an elevated level of risk compared to those who were only passing by in a matter of seconds.
The core point is, however, that - whatever the cause and outcome of the event of the 22nd August - the reaction of the media and CAA has been wholly disproportionate and threatens to destroy a sector of the tourism industry which is worth hundreds of millions to the economy and maintains specialist engineering skills which would otherwise be lost. A professional pilot has been the subject of a witch-hunt by media and public alike, on the basis of nothing more than speculation. The most successful aircraft postwar Britain ever produced has been grounded without cause, owners have lost a lot of income, and at least one UK-based Hunter has spent the last six months stranded in Sweden - the CAA refusing to allow even a ferry flight back to base. It's also caused the demise of Midair, its Hunters and Canberra coming up for auction at the 74th Members Meeting at Goodwood next month. Every possible opportunity to cause the maximum damage has been seized with gusto by the CAA, aided and abetted by the hysterical paranoia of the tabloids, and uninformed screeching from the public, calling for airshows to be banned - over land, at least.
The core point is, however, that - whatever the cause and outcome of the event of the 22nd August - the reaction of the media and CAA has been wholly disproportionate and threatens to destroy a sector of the tourism industry which is worth hundreds of millions to the economy and maintains specialist engineering skills which would otherwise be lost. A professional pilot has been the subject of a witch-hunt by media and public alike, on the basis of nothing more than speculation. The most successful aircraft postwar Britain ever produced has been grounded without cause, owners have lost a lot of income, and at least one UK-based Hunter has spent the last six months stranded in Sweden - the CAA refusing to allow even a ferry flight back to base. It's also caused the demise of Midair, its Hunters and Canberra coming up for auction at the 74th Members Meeting at Goodwood next month. Every possible opportunity to cause the maximum damage has been seized with gusto by the CAA, aided and abetted by the hysterical paranoia of the tabloids, and uninformed screeching from the public, calling for airshows to be banned - over land, at least.
RoverP6B said:
Of course the same does not apply to those simply using the road, but those who were spectating from by the Sussex Pad were exposing themselves to an elevated level of risk compared to those who were only passing by in a matter of seconds.
The core point is, however, that - whatever the cause and outcome of the event of the 22nd August - the reaction of the media and CAA has been wholly disproportionate and threatens to destroy a sector of the tourism industry which is worth hundreds of millions to the economy and maintains specialist engineering skills which would otherwise be lost. A professional pilot has been the subject of a witch-hunt by media and public alike, on the basis of nothing more than speculation. The most successful aircraft postwar Britain ever produced has been grounded without cause, owners have lost a lot of income, and at least one UK-based Hunter has spent the last six months stranded in Sweden - the CAA refusing to allow even a ferry flight back to base. It's also caused the demise of Midair, its Hunters and Canberra coming up for auction at the 74th Members Meeting at Goodwood next month. Every possible opportunity to cause the maximum damage has been seized with gusto by the CAA, aided and abetted by the hysterical paranoia of the tabloids, and uninformed screeching from the public, calling for airshows to be banned - over land, at least.
I think you are the most horrible example of a human to ever have posted on PistonHeads. The core point is, however, that - whatever the cause and outcome of the event of the 22nd August - the reaction of the media and CAA has been wholly disproportionate and threatens to destroy a sector of the tourism industry which is worth hundreds of millions to the economy and maintains specialist engineering skills which would otherwise be lost. A professional pilot has been the subject of a witch-hunt by media and public alike, on the basis of nothing more than speculation. The most successful aircraft postwar Britain ever produced has been grounded without cause, owners have lost a lot of income, and at least one UK-based Hunter has spent the last six months stranded in Sweden - the CAA refusing to allow even a ferry flight back to base. It's also caused the demise of Midair, its Hunters and Canberra coming up for auction at the 74th Members Meeting at Goodwood next month. Every possible opportunity to cause the maximum damage has been seized with gusto by the CAA, aided and abetted by the hysterical paranoia of the tabloids, and uninformed screeching from the public, calling for airshows to be banned - over land, at least.
BrabusMog said:
RoverP6B said:
Of course the same does not apply to those simply using the road, but those who were spectating from by the Sussex Pad were exposing themselves to an elevated level of risk compared to those who were only passing by in a matter of seconds.
The core point is, however, that - whatever the cause and outcome of the event of the 22nd August - the reaction of the media and CAA has been wholly disproportionate and threatens to destroy a sector of the tourism industry which is worth hundreds of millions to the economy and maintains specialist engineering skills which would otherwise be lost. A professional pilot has been the subject of a witch-hunt by media and public alike, on the basis of nothing more than speculation. The most successful aircraft postwar Britain ever produced has been grounded without cause, owners have lost a lot of income, and at least one UK-based Hunter has spent the last six months stranded in Sweden - the CAA refusing to allow even a ferry flight back to base. It's also caused the demise of Midair, its Hunters and Canberra coming up for auction at the 74th Members Meeting at Goodwood next month. Every possible opportunity to cause the maximum damage has been seized with gusto by the CAA, aided and abetted by the hysterical paranoia of the tabloids, and uninformed screeching from the public, calling for airshows to be banned - over land, at least.
I think you are the most horrible example of a human to ever have posted on PistonHeads. The core point is, however, that - whatever the cause and outcome of the event of the 22nd August - the reaction of the media and CAA has been wholly disproportionate and threatens to destroy a sector of the tourism industry which is worth hundreds of millions to the economy and maintains specialist engineering skills which would otherwise be lost. A professional pilot has been the subject of a witch-hunt by media and public alike, on the basis of nothing more than speculation. The most successful aircraft postwar Britain ever produced has been grounded without cause, owners have lost a lot of income, and at least one UK-based Hunter has spent the last six months stranded in Sweden - the CAA refusing to allow even a ferry flight back to base. It's also caused the demise of Midair, its Hunters and Canberra coming up for auction at the 74th Members Meeting at Goodwood next month. Every possible opportunity to cause the maximum damage has been seized with gusto by the CAA, aided and abetted by the hysterical paranoia of the tabloids, and uninformed screeching from the public, calling for airshows to be banned - over land, at least.
t even?Bloody freeloaders being killed have spoilt his hobby.
BrabusMog said:
RoverP6B said:
Of course the same does not apply to those simply using the road, but those who were spectating from by the Sussex Pad were exposing themselves to an elevated level of risk compared to those who were only passing by in a matter of seconds.
The core point is, however, that - whatever the cause and outcome of the event of the 22nd August - the reaction of the media and CAA has been wholly disproportionate and threatens to destroy a sector of the tourism industry which is worth hundreds of millions to the economy and maintains specialist engineering skills which would otherwise be lost. A professional pilot has been the subject of a witch-hunt by media and public alike, on the basis of nothing more than speculation. The most successful aircraft postwar Britain ever produced has been grounded without cause, owners have lost a lot of income, and at least one UK-based Hunter has spent the last six months stranded in Sweden - the CAA refusing to allow even a ferry flight back to base. It's also caused the demise of Midair, its Hunters and Canberra coming up for auction at the 74th Members Meeting at Goodwood next month. Every possible opportunity to cause the maximum damage has been seized with gusto by the CAA, aided and abetted by the hysterical paranoia of the tabloids, and uninformed screeching from the public, calling for airshows to be banned - over land, at least.
I think you are the most horrible example of a human to ever have posted on PistonHeads. The core point is, however, that - whatever the cause and outcome of the event of the 22nd August - the reaction of the media and CAA has been wholly disproportionate and threatens to destroy a sector of the tourism industry which is worth hundreds of millions to the economy and maintains specialist engineering skills which would otherwise be lost. A professional pilot has been the subject of a witch-hunt by media and public alike, on the basis of nothing more than speculation. The most successful aircraft postwar Britain ever produced has been grounded without cause, owners have lost a lot of income, and at least one UK-based Hunter has spent the last six months stranded in Sweden - the CAA refusing to allow even a ferry flight back to base. It's also caused the demise of Midair, its Hunters and Canberra coming up for auction at the 74th Members Meeting at Goodwood next month. Every possible opportunity to cause the maximum damage has been seized with gusto by the CAA, aided and abetted by the hysterical paranoia of the tabloids, and uninformed screeching from the public, calling for airshows to be banned - over land, at least.
HoHoHo said:
RoverP6B said:
The fact that the aircraft struck the ground at that angle of bank tells one a lot - as does the fact that thousands of eyewitnesses independently made the same claim, which appears to be supported by the photographic and video evidence.
As someone who was at the show watching the horror unfold just exactly what does it tell one?Edited by HoHoHo on Friday 5th February 17:08
This isn't a hobby. This is the second biggest spectator activity in the country, just behind football. It's a major part of our heritage. It's a huge contributory factor to our economy and the income of charities. It is a major source of engineering skills. It also plays a part in our national security - there are still Hunters on the military register today, flying for the MoD. That would not be possible without the civilian scene which is mainly directed towards and funded by airshows. All now in jeopardy because of the CAA's bureaucratic myopia and the disgraceful, unwarranted vilification of a pilot who is very lucky to be alive at all. Pull your heads out of your arses and your Daily Mails and get a clue about the reality of the heritage aviation industry.
RoverP6B said:
1)
If the P-38 hadn't been affected by an asymmetric control surface deployment, as many eyewitnesses stated, the roll would have been stopped well before the point of impact, and any crash would have occurred wings-level. As it was, if you examine the (admittedly low-quality) videos, there's definitely something odd going on with the trailing edge of the wing...
So these eyewitnesses noticed the relative positions of all the control surfaces while watching this aircraft perform rolls, from the crowd line at an airshow?If the P-38 hadn't been affected by an asymmetric control surface deployment, as many eyewitnesses stated, the roll would have been stopped well before the point of impact, and any crash would have occurred wings-level. As it was, if you examine the (admittedly low-quality) videos, there's definitely something odd going on with the trailing edge of the wing...
And the AAIB simply didn't notice "something odd with the trailing edge of the wing"? Or if they did, they didn't think it was worth noting in their report?
Has it occurred to you that the roll wasn't stopped "well before the point of impact", because the pilot might simply have made an error? And that if it had remained "wings level" after the first roll, it wouldn't have crashed at all? That's kind of the entire point.
As ever, you're talking complete and utter gobs
te.
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