Crash at Shoreham Air show
Discussion
RWD cossie wil said:
NDA said:
Robertj21a said:
RWD cossie wil said:
People get killed & injured through no fault of their own all the time, banning the air show is a fruitless exercise.
Not to those who want to drive safely along the A27.My own thoughts are I suspect we'll find the pilot made a mistake on this occasion and he simply ran out of altitude which I know doesn't help those who died however if that's the case it's not the airshow that is at fault.
Whilst Robertj21a is perhaps being slightly inflammatory, he does raise a very valid point.
An airshow is fairly unique in the respect that as a spectator sport, it puts members of the public at risk, in order for a small minority to enjoy their hobby.
Anyone going to watch drag racing, motor racing, monster trucks in a stadium, a stunt show, rugby, football, or pretty much everything else I can think of, places any risk ONLY on those who have actively chosen to attend the event.
That is quite a clear difference between that and an airshow which has the potential to kill or injure innocent bystanders for miles around whilst performing for the amusement of the crowd at the airshow.
I'm not saying for one minute I support banning airshows, or banning anything for that matter, but I don't think we can just dismiss views such as Robertj's.
It is foolish to attempt to compare it to 'banning all cars' etc and that is clearly nonsense. 99.99% of cars aren't driving on the roads for the amusement of a minority, they are simply transport. The same as airports and usual airport traffic, it isn't performing stunts for others, it is simply necessary transport, and is therefore an acceptable trade off of risk to the public Vs usefulness to the public.
An airshow is fairly unique in the respect that as a spectator sport, it puts members of the public at risk, in order for a small minority to enjoy their hobby.
Anyone going to watch drag racing, motor racing, monster trucks in a stadium, a stunt show, rugby, football, or pretty much everything else I can think of, places any risk ONLY on those who have actively chosen to attend the event.
That is quite a clear difference between that and an airshow which has the potential to kill or injure innocent bystanders for miles around whilst performing for the amusement of the crowd at the airshow.
I'm not saying for one minute I support banning airshows, or banning anything for that matter, but I don't think we can just dismiss views such as Robertj's.
It is foolish to attempt to compare it to 'banning all cars' etc and that is clearly nonsense. 99.99% of cars aren't driving on the roads for the amusement of a minority, they are simply transport. The same as airports and usual airport traffic, it isn't performing stunts for others, it is simply necessary transport, and is therefore an acceptable trade off of risk to the public Vs usefulness to the public.
NinjaPower said:
Whilst Robertj21a is perhaps being slightly inflammatory, he does raise a very valid point.
An airshow is fairly unique in the respect that as a spectator sport, it puts members of the public at risk, in order for a small minority to enjoy their hobby.
Anyone going to watch drag racing, motor racing, monster trucks in a stadium, a stunt show, rugby, football, or pretty much everything else I can think of, places any risk ONLY on those who have actively chosen to attend the event.
That is quite a clear difference between that and an airshow which has the potential to kill or injure innocent bystanders for miles around whilst performing for the amusement of the crowd at the airshow.
I'm not saying for one minute I support banning airshows, or banning anything for that matter, but I don't think we can just dismiss views such as Robertj's.
It is foolish to attempt to compare it to 'banning all cars' etc and that is clearly nonsense. 99.99% of cars aren't driving on the roads for the amusement of a minority, they are simply transport. The same as airports and usual airport traffic, it isn't performing stunts for others, it is simply necessary transport, and is therefore an acceptable trade off of risk to the public Vs usefulness to the public.
Powerboating and yacht racing are 2 that instantly come to mind that take place in areas where not participants or spectators could potentially be injured. An airshow is fairly unique in the respect that as a spectator sport, it puts members of the public at risk, in order for a small minority to enjoy their hobby.
Anyone going to watch drag racing, motor racing, monster trucks in a stadium, a stunt show, rugby, football, or pretty much everything else I can think of, places any risk ONLY on those who have actively chosen to attend the event.
That is quite a clear difference between that and an airshow which has the potential to kill or injure innocent bystanders for miles around whilst performing for the amusement of the crowd at the airshow.
I'm not saying for one minute I support banning airshows, or banning anything for that matter, but I don't think we can just dismiss views such as Robertj's.
It is foolish to attempt to compare it to 'banning all cars' etc and that is clearly nonsense. 99.99% of cars aren't driving on the roads for the amusement of a minority, they are simply transport. The same as airports and usual airport traffic, it isn't performing stunts for others, it is simply necessary transport, and is therefore an acceptable trade off of risk to the public Vs usefulness to the public.
As has been said the whole way through this thread this is the first time since many years ago where a display has killed those on the ground within the UK this is not through chance but through regulation.
The rules have again been tightened since the shkreham crash and it has already killed off some shows which bring a vast amount of money into local areas economies and in the case of shoreham was a big earner for charity.
Robertj21a said:
ecsrobin said:
Do you work within aviation to know the answer or just speculating?
No,I don't work in aviation. I didn't know that was a requirement for posting on the thread.I am posting as a concerned member of the public who wants to reduce the risk of 'stunt' flying to other members of the general public. I appreciate that my concerns will not be accepted, or tolerated, by those who can only see the hobby as something that is perfectly harmless and not in need of any tighter controls.
The rules of the air allow anyone to conduct aerobatics outside of congested areas and outside of controlled airspace unless they have ATC permission. This means someone could come and fly aerobatics over your PH mansion and not be in the wrong.
ecsrobin said:
NDA said:
I think if you check, I used the word 'displaying'. Overflying is fine - it's an airport - but coming out of loops etc is probably not fine. Just a thought.
You're aware that pilots can perform aerobatics over large parts of the UK. Just a thought. NDA said:
ecsrobin said:
NDA said:
I think if you check, I used the word 'displaying'. Overflying is fine - it's an airport - but coming out of loops etc is probably not fine. Just a thought.
You're aware that pilots can perform aerobatics over large parts of the UK. Just a thought. I live on the outskirts of a village and frankly don't even look anymore. I've probably got more chance of winning the lottery than being hit by an aircraft!
Dr Jekyll said:
NDA said:
I guess I've been incredibly lucky that vintage jets don't perform loops over my house or on any of the roads I normally use.
Incredibly lucky? Do you know how rare it is for anyone to be injured on the ground by a General Aviation crash? Let alone a vintage jet.
MarkwG said:
grumpy52 said:
The final report is published today.
The AAIB website give the 3rd as publication date.That's what they reckon on the radio anyway.
Kitchski said:
Just heard it's published today, but not public until tomorrow. Today it's for those in the know, and the families of the victims. Tomorrow it goes public.
That's what they reckon on the radio anyway.
That's the normal course of events: in essence, no point anyone googling it today, though.That's what they reckon on the radio anyway.
grumpy52 said:
The final report is published today .
I hope it doesn't result in the usual armchair experts on here doing their usual rubbish .
A very sad day for anybody with any interest in Airshows and displays .
Even sadder for those who lost members of their family while innocently driving past on the A27.I hope it doesn't result in the usual armchair experts on here doing their usual rubbish .
A very sad day for anybody with any interest in Airshows and displays .
Robertj21a said:
grumpy52 said:
The final report is published today .
I hope it doesn't result in the usual armchair experts on here doing their usual rubbish .
A very sad day for anybody with any interest in Airshows and displays .
Even sadder for those who lost members of their family while innocently driving past on the A27.I hope it doesn't result in the usual armchair experts on here doing their usual rubbish .
A very sad day for anybody with any interest in Airshows and displays .
I suppose it's of little comfort that the victims had little or no warning .
A sad and tragedy.
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