RAF Voyager KC2

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Discussion

Kiltie

Original Poster:

7,504 posts

245 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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Spotted this on FlightRadar this evening.



I think that Voyager KC2 is for refuelling.

Seems strange it went from Brize Norton all the way up to very close by Lossiemouth and then home.

An exercise?

rkem

10 posts

106 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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The Voyagers are based at Brize so will naturally take-off and land there. The customers are based all over the country, including Scotland.

The airspace above the UK is pretty busy, with airways criss-crossing the land-mass at varying heights. Out to sea is relatively clear and is where the air-to-air refuelling areas are located. This allows the Vger to fly its racetrack patterns without having to worry about conflicting with civilian traffic and ditto for their customers. Vgers have a lot of fuel and can travel long distances to refuel other aircraft, especially Fast-Jets who do not have a lot of spare fuel. So it would make sense for a Vger to fly to Scotland to refuel scottish based aircraft.

Hope that helps!


onyx39

11,109 posts

149 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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Supporting a QRA?

Kiltie

Original Poster:

7,504 posts

245 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
rkem said:
The Voyagers are based at Brize so will naturally take-off and land there. The customers are based all over the country, including Scotland.

The airspace above the UK is pretty busy, with airways criss-crossing the land-mass at varying heights. Out to sea is relatively clear and is where the air-to-air refuelling areas are located. This allows the Vger to fly its racetrack patterns without having to worry about conflicting with civilian traffic and ditto for their customers. Vgers have a lot of fuel and can travel long distances to refuel other aircraft, especially Fast-Jets who do not have a lot of spare fuel. So it would make sense for a Vger to fly to Scotland to refuel scottish based aircraft.

Hope that helps!
Thanks for that.

I guess what I was really wondering was; if they were refuelling fast jets, would it not have been easier for those jets to land at Lossiemouth as opposed to flying a tanker from Brize Norton?

-crookedtail-

1,558 posts

189 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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Not exactly related to the OP's question but why aren't the Voyagers used as VIP aircraft for the PM (royals) to travel where they need to be around the world?

Is it that there are not enough of them to cover when needed (not too often I would imagine) or is it cheaper to charter a BA 777? Seems a bit naff to turn up in foreign climes in a BA/Virgin jet when every other country seems to have their own, not that a grey Airbus would be AF1 but I've always wondered.

KieronGSi

1,108 posts

203 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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-crookedtail- said:
Not exactly related to the OP's question but why aren't the Voyagers used as VIP aircraft for the PM (royals) to travel where they need to be around the world?

Is it that there are not enough of them to cover when needed (not too often I would imagine) or is it cheaper to charter a BA 777? Seems a bit naff to turn up in foreign climes in a BA/Virgin jet when every other country seems to have their own, not that a grey Airbus would be AF1 but I've always wondered.
They have the royal flight based at Northolt using BAe 146s and i think some HS125s.

couzens

512 posts

141 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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KieronGSi said:
They have the royal flight based at Northolt using BAe 146s and i think some HS125s.
Off topic, but I'm sure they just use what's available at the time. Cameron flew out on a chartered E145 when he was campaigning not long ago.

couzens

512 posts

141 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
KieronGSi said:
They have the royal flight based at Northolt using BAe 146s and i think some HS125s.
Off topic, but I'm sure they just use what's available at the time. Cameron flew out on a chartered E145 when he was campaigning not long ago.

tuffer

8,849 posts

266 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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Kiltie said:
Thanks for that.

I guess what I was really wondering was; if they were refuelling fast jets, would it not have been easier for those jets to land at Lossiemouth as opposed to flying a tanker from Brize Norton?
Kind of defeats the object if the jest have to land and refuel all the time. The point is that having an air to air refueling capability means the jets can have a longer loiter time in the target area. The Tankers are based at Brize and as has been stated, fly to suitable points to service their customers.

tuffer

8,849 posts

266 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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Unrelated but I wish they would invent the same service for cars, I hate stopping to refuel on a journey :-)

onyx39

11,109 posts

149 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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couzens said:
KieronGSi said:
They have the royal flight based at Northolt using BAe 146s and i think some HS125s.
Off topic, but I'm sure they just use what's available at the time. Cameron flew out on a chartered E145 when he was campaigning not long ago.
Would that not have been a private charter though? I thought campaigning costs couldn't come out of the public purse?

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
tuffer said:
Kiltie said:
Thanks for that.

I guess what I was really wondering was; if they were refuelling fast jets, would it not have been easier for those jets to land at Lossiemouth as opposed to flying a tanker from Brize Norton?
Kind of defeats the object if the jest have to land and refuel all the time. The point is that having an air to air refueling capability means the jets can have a longer loiter time in the target area. The Tankers are based at Brize and as has been stated, fly to suitable points to service their customers.
And even if it's not an operational requirement that day, everyone involved in the refuelling needs to practice.

Kiltie

Original Poster:

7,504 posts

245 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
tuffer said:
Kiltie said:
Thanks for that.

I guess what I was really wondering was; if they were refuelling fast jets, would it not have been easier for those jets to land at Lossiemouth as opposed to flying a tanker from Brize Norton?
Kind of defeats the object if the jest have to land and refuel all the time. The point is that having an air to air refueling capability means the jets can have a longer loiter time in the target area. The Tankers are based at Brize and as has been stated, fly to suitable points to service their customers.
I agree for other (remote) locations but in this particular case, the tanker was doing its circuits spitting distance from Lossiemouth - see below.



I just reckoned nipping in past Lossie would be easier / cheaper than flying a tanker all the way from BN.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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Perhaps the excercise was to practice air to air refuelling, as if they were in a war or QRA environment.

On another subject, the 32 sqn Bae 125s were retired a couple of months ago.

Jezzerh

816 posts

121 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
This. They'll have been practising. You can often spot the same happening just off The Wash, callsign Tartan. 16,000 feet, racetrack patterns for hours. Must be boring!

Ginetta G15 Girl

3,220 posts

183 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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AAR (Air to Air Refueling), specifically receiving has been likened to attempting to push wet string up a cat's backside.

The more practice you get, the easier it becomes.

There will be a Group Air Staff Order detailing the amount of 'prods' whether wet (fuel flows) or 'dry' (no fuel flow) a pilot has to achieve per month/6months/year.

frodo_monkey

670 posts

195 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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Surprisingly, there isn't... There is a STARS currency, but to get re-current you just go and tank.

Normal receiving is fine, but the 'Iron Maiden' (KC135 BDA) on the other hand...

Ginetta G15 Girl

3,220 posts

183 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Crikey things have changed since my time on the Herc, 38 GASOs in those days definitely laid down the rules on tanking currency.

The short hose on the 135 looks fun, NOT!

couzens

512 posts

141 months

Thursday 3rd September 2015
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onyx39 said:
Would that not have been a private charter though? I thought campaigning costs couldn't come out of the public purse?
Not too sure, but I bet he didn't foot the bill for it whistle

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 3rd September 2015
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As you can see, the UK airspace is quite congested with pre assigned blocks in the sky for all kinds of purposes, although not all are constantly in use.

I've highlighted the area this aircraft was using, there quite a few other air to air refuelling areas around the country though.