Ba777 engine fire Las Vegas
Discussion
Max_Torque said:
Mave said:
This is the reason for P&W introducing geared fans.
I rather suspect the designer of that^^^ gearbox had a LOT of grey hair by the end of the project...... ;-)HughG said:
Mojocvh said:
To give a further insight, each, small, turbine BLADE, in the A380 incident was said to have the "same" energy as a F1 car when the disk fractured.......
As an F1 car doing what? Presumably not while it's sat in the pits.Leptons said:
HughG said:
Mojocvh said:
To give a further insight, each, small, turbine BLADE, in the A380 incident was said to have the "same" energy as a F1 car when the disk fractured.......
As an F1 car doing what? Presumably not while it's sat in the pits.
fathomfive said:
Leptons said:
HughG said:
Mojocvh said:
To give a further insight, each, small, turbine BLADE, in the A380 incident was said to have the "same" energy as a F1 car when the disk fractured.......
As an F1 car doing what? Presumably not while it's sat in the pits.
Leptons said:
HughG said:
Mojocvh said:
To give a further insight, each, small, turbine BLADE, in the A380 incident was said to have the "same" energy as a F1 car when the disk fractured.......
As an F1 car doing what? Presumably not while it's sat in the pits.As i doubt the turbine blade is supersonic, that sets an upper bound at around 340m/s, and a 60th of that is 5.6m/s, which is 12.7mph.
So we can say that each turbine blade has the same energy as an F1 car going at jogging pace. Hmm, sounds less impressive to me....... ;-)
Max_Torque said:
Leptons said:
HughG said:
Mojocvh said:
To give a further insight, each, small, turbine BLADE, in the A380 incident was said to have the "same" energy as a F1 car when the disk fractured.......
As an F1 car doing what? Presumably not while it's sat in the pits.As i doubt the turbine blade is supersonic, that sets an upper bound at around 340m/s, and a 60th of that is 5.6m/s, which is 12.7mph.
So we can say that each turbine blade has the same energy as an F1 car going at jogging pace. Hmm, sounds less impressive to me....... ;-)
eharding said:
Max_Torque said:
Leptons said:
HughG said:
Mojocvh said:
To give a further insight, each, small, turbine BLADE, in the A380 incident was said to have the "same" energy as a F1 car when the disk fractured.......
As an F1 car doing what? Presumably not while it's sat in the pits.As i doubt the turbine blade is supersonic, that sets an upper bound at around 340m/s, and a 60th of that is 5.6m/s, which is 12.7mph.
So we can say that each turbine blade has the same energy as an F1 car going at jogging pace. Hmm, sounds less impressive to me....... ;-)
TTmonkey said:
Astounded to see passengers on the tarmac with cases and hand luggage..... what the hell were they thinking, gotta take my carry on down the emergency slide with me....???
I thought the same thing, and thought they should be naming and shaming these idiots as someone who could have cost a life.1st indications are a HP compressor failure:
CNN said:
(CNN)The left engine of British Airlines Flight 2276, which burst into flames Tuesday at McCarran International Airport in Las Vegas, showed multiple breaches in the metal casing surrounding it and parts of the engine's high pressure compressor were found on the runway, according to an initial examination by aviation experts.
Investigators with the National Transportation Safety Board said they don't know yet what caused the engine failure during takeoff shortly after 4 p.m. (7 p.m. ET) Tuesday.
But CNN has learned that the Federal Aviation Administration issued an airworthiness directive in 2011 to airlines using this GE90-85B engine.
It warned of possible "uncontained engine failure," which means parts of the engine can break and fly out . The FAA mandated repetitive inspections of the high pressure compressor rotor spool for cracks.
The NTSB said it is too early to draw any conclusions, but the part of the plane's engine that was heavily damaged is the same part mentioned in the FAA's airworthiness directive.
A source close to the investigation said a physical inspection of the plane will be key in the case and may provide more clues than the black box, which can't tell investigators if a part of the engine broke off.
Investigators with the National Transportation Safety Board said they don't know yet what caused the engine failure during takeoff shortly after 4 p.m. (7 p.m. ET) Tuesday.
But CNN has learned that the Federal Aviation Administration issued an airworthiness directive in 2011 to airlines using this GE90-85B engine.
It warned of possible "uncontained engine failure," which means parts of the engine can break and fly out . The FAA mandated repetitive inspections of the high pressure compressor rotor spool for cracks.
The NTSB said it is too early to draw any conclusions, but the part of the plane's engine that was heavily damaged is the same part mentioned in the FAA's airworthiness directive.
A source close to the investigation said a physical inspection of the plane will be key in the case and may provide more clues than the black box, which can't tell investigators if a part of the engine broke off.
Max_Torque said:
1st indications are a HP compressor failure:
As per the news thread...CNN said:
(CNN)The left engine of British Airlines Flight 2276, which burst into flames Tuesday at McCarran International Airport in Las Vegas, showed multiple breaches in the metal casing surrounding it and parts of the engine's high pressure compressor were found on the runway, according to an initial examination by aviation experts.
Investigators with the National Transportation Safety Board said they don't know yet what caused the engine failure during takeoff shortly after 4 p.m. (7 p.m. ET) Tuesday.
But CNN has learned that the Federal Aviation Administration issued an airworthiness directive in 2011 to airlines using this GE90-85B engine.
It warned of possible "uncontained engine failure," which means parts of the engine can break and fly out . The FAA mandated repetitive inspections of the high pressure compressor rotor spool for cracks.
The NTSB said it is too early to draw any conclusions, but the part of the plane's engine that was heavily damaged is the same part mentioned in the FAA's airworthiness directive.
A source close to the investigation said a physical inspection of the plane will be key in the case and may provide more clues than the black box, which can't tell investigators if a part of the engine broke off.
Investigators with the National Transportation Safety Board said they don't know yet what caused the engine failure during takeoff shortly after 4 p.m. (7 p.m. ET) Tuesday.
But CNN has learned that the Federal Aviation Administration issued an airworthiness directive in 2011 to airlines using this GE90-85B engine.
It warned of possible "uncontained engine failure," which means parts of the engine can break and fly out . The FAA mandated repetitive inspections of the high pressure compressor rotor spool for cracks.
The NTSB said it is too early to draw any conclusions, but the part of the plane's engine that was heavily damaged is the same part mentioned in the FAA's airworthiness directive.
A source close to the investigation said a physical inspection of the plane will be key in the case and may provide more clues than the black box, which can't tell investigators if a part of the engine broke off.
http://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/PR20...
Max_Torque said:
I agree that M1 is not a precisely defined velocity due to the somewhat unknown (to me) conditions in the exhaust gas stream on turbine entry. However if we assume M1 is 340m/s for now, 11krpm would put the tips supersonic on about a 0.6m major diameter turbine. How big is the turbine on a GE90? I suspect it's about that size, meaning they have kept the blades subsonic?
It's an interesting quote, I suspect they were referring to disc segment energy rather than blade energy (I've pulled apart engines where HP blades have been contained, I've also had to calculate levels of reinforcement for a test bed to contain disc segments and it's a LOT of steel!).Worth noting for those interested in the calcs, M1 is in the region of 750 - 800 m/s at the front of the turbine, and the blades may mechanically be travelling faster as the nozzles upstream turn the flow into the direction of blade travel - so the blades are running away from the air.
Max_Torque said:
Leptons said:
HughG said:
Mojocvh said:
To give a further insight, each, small, turbine BLADE, in the A380 incident was said to have the "same" energy as a F1 car when the disk fractured.......
As an F1 car doing what? Presumably not while it's sat in the pits.As i doubt the turbine blade is supersonic, that sets an upper bound at around 340m/s, and a 60th of that is 5.6m/s, which is 12.7mph.
So we can say that each turbine blade has the same energy as an F1 car going at jogging pace. Hmm, sounds less impressive to me....... ;-)
Fine.
Suit yourselves, it was a comparison, made at the time, to indicate the energy of the A380's turbine when it fractured, to those less than stellarly gifted. One would have thought that would have been both patently obvious and substantial as the disk fractured in the flight but no worries...
Edited by Mojocvh on Friday 11th September 17:48
Amazing how rare this actually is, thousands of airliners flying all round the world every minute of every day and this seems a really rare occurrence.
You just know the folk at Rolls Royce saw that pop up on the news and all breathed a sigh of relief when they firstly realised there we no fatalities, but mainly when they realised that plane billowing black smoke was fitted with the GE's
In the life of an engine like that does it ever get "a rebuild", i.e. stripped to bits and parts replaced or is it like a car engine that in its normal life the idea is it never gets opened up ?
You just know the folk at Rolls Royce saw that pop up on the news and all breathed a sigh of relief when they firstly realised there we no fatalities, but mainly when they realised that plane billowing black smoke was fitted with the GE's
In the life of an engine like that does it ever get "a rebuild", i.e. stripped to bits and parts replaced or is it like a car engine that in its normal life the idea is it never gets opened up ?
J4CKO said:
Amazing how rare this actually is, thousands of airliners flying all round the world every minute of every day and this seems a really rare occurrence.
You just know the folk at Rolls Royce saw that pop up on the news and all breathed a sigh of relief when they firstly realised there we no fatalities, but mainly when they realised that plane billowing black smoke was fitted with the GE's
In the life of an engine like that does it ever get "a rebuild", i.e. stripped to bits and parts replaced or is it like a car engine that in its normal life the idea is it never gets opened up ?
I think the folk at RR would know almost about the same time frame as the crew if it was one of theirs You just know the folk at Rolls Royce saw that pop up on the news and all breathed a sigh of relief when they firstly realised there we no fatalities, but mainly when they realised that plane billowing black smoke was fitted with the GE's
In the life of an engine like that does it ever get "a rebuild", i.e. stripped to bits and parts replaced or is it like a car engine that in its normal life the idea is it never gets opened up ?
J4CKO said:
Amazing how rare this actually is, thousands of airliners flying all round the world every minute of every day and this seems a really rare occurrence.
You just know the folk at Rolls Royce saw that pop up on the news and all breathed a sigh of relief when they firstly realised there we no fatalities, but mainly when they realised that plane billowing black smoke was fitted with the GE's
In the life of an engine like that does it ever get "a rebuild", i.e. stripped to bits and parts replaced or is it like a car engine that in its normal life the idea is it never gets opened up ?
It will be inspected regularly using a borescope, plus most engines now have equipment sending data back to base for real time condition monitoring. Dismantling and refurbishment are increasingly on a condition basis rather than a life basis, although some bits are still lifed, so in the bin after 20000 hours or whatever.You just know the folk at Rolls Royce saw that pop up on the news and all breathed a sigh of relief when they firstly realised there we no fatalities, but mainly when they realised that plane billowing black smoke was fitted with the GE's
In the life of an engine like that does it ever get "a rebuild", i.e. stripped to bits and parts replaced or is it like a car engine that in its normal life the idea is it never gets opened up ?
Mojocvh said:
J4CKO said:
Amazing how rare this actually is, thousands of airliners flying all round the world every minute of every day and this seems a really rare occurrence.
You just know the folk at Rolls Royce saw that pop up on the news and all breathed a sigh of relief when they firstly realised there we no fatalities, but mainly when they realised that plane billowing black smoke was fitted with the GE's
In the life of an engine like that does it ever get "a rebuild", i.e. stripped to bits and parts replaced or is it like a car engine that in its normal life the idea is it never gets opened up ?
I think the folk at RR would know almost about the same time frame as the crew if it was one of theirs You just know the folk at Rolls Royce saw that pop up on the news and all breathed a sigh of relief when they firstly realised there we no fatalities, but mainly when they realised that plane billowing black smoke was fitted with the GE's
In the life of an engine like that does it ever get "a rebuild", i.e. stripped to bits and parts replaced or is it like a car engine that in its normal life the idea is it never gets opened up ?
"BOOM !"
"Extinguisher, fresh pants, dust pan and brush required at coordinates...."
I monitor computer databases around the globe so its fairly familiar-ish territory, have had one on a rig in the North Sea shut down due to massive waves swamping the rig and screwing the equipment and get something innocuous like "Break received on communication channel", never "Guess what J4CKO a f
king massive wave just washed the server away "!" I would imagine it records some massive out of threshold vibrations, excessive heat, rpm abruptly dropping etc, wonder if that has a signature that alerts them straight away ? is the telemetry in real time, surely communications cant be that reliable worldwide, must be a really interesting job keeping track of that.
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