Airline Pilots..advice for my lad please
Discussion
I'm not a pilot but have looked into it in the past, have always wanted to fly.
Yes there are future pilot programs from the likes of BA, most are not full sponsorship but more along the lines of a 80/120k loan which they'll then pay back once/if you succeed.
Aer Lingus is actually one of the rare ones that have recently started a fully financed training program, I'm probably too old to apply. However they would expect at least decent GCSE results in Maths and Science, then maybe A levels or whatever.
If you want to do it outside of these options there are some other routes integrated which uses schools such as CTC or FTE (the airlines use the same schools) and they can train you in return for 80 grand.
The 'cheapest' option, is to go modular which means doing PPL, CPL/IR all seperately and get hours in your logbook, this can be about 50k but doesn't mean your guaranteed a job either, it's a tough business.
Good luck to your lad though
Yes there are future pilot programs from the likes of BA, most are not full sponsorship but more along the lines of a 80/120k loan which they'll then pay back once/if you succeed.
Aer Lingus is actually one of the rare ones that have recently started a fully financed training program, I'm probably too old to apply. However they would expect at least decent GCSE results in Maths and Science, then maybe A levels or whatever.
If you want to do it outside of these options there are some other routes integrated which uses schools such as CTC or FTE (the airlines use the same schools) and they can train you in return for 80 grand.
The 'cheapest' option, is to go modular which means doing PPL, CPL/IR all seperately and get hours in your logbook, this can be about 50k but doesn't mean your guaranteed a job either, it's a tough business.
Good luck to your lad though
Couple of the students on the Aerospace engineering with Pilot Studies at Liverpool uni managed to get on the BA new pilot intake this year. Generally we have a few students each year who go onto commercial pilot training after graduating. This course is set up so that you will do an engineering degree and cover the ground school in university and then fly in your spare time from local airports. But even though you will get loans and grants to cover the university course you still need to pay for the aircraft hire, fuel etc, and this varies each year but it's usually around £3500 extra which needs paying. There are future pilot schemes with Virgin and BA but they require degrees too or the other route generally taken is through the Armed Forces.
Just as a side note for your son, if he's seriously looking at going commercial, he needs to consider his reasoning- as the days of starting on a nice salary and being home often are a thing of the past. If he's doing it for the love of aviation and flying, its the right reason. If for anything else he's unlikely to find it in the modern-day commercial aviation industry...
Look at;
Oxford Aviation Academy (my route, now has me in the RHS of a B737-800 for a European carrier), CTC Wings and FTE for integrated ATPL courses. Perhaps start at a Flyer exhibition (usually one at T5 Heathrow) to be able to visit representatives from each school. From there go to some school open days to visit the classrooms/facilities/meet instructors etc.
A levels are usually not required, but having Maths and Physics does help in some of the more in depth theoretical stuff. Before enrolling at any flight school your lad will need to likely go through an internal selection process - quite competitive - any also hold a valid Class 1 CAA medical courtesy of a day down at the CAA HQ in Gatwick.
That's the easy bit. Once you're through training you will likely have a debt of around £80k, so a job is next priority. The usual low cost carriers are most likely to hire, it's rare for a 0 hour pilot with his fresh new licence goes straight into the legacy carriers such as BA but occasionally happens. The main thing though is to get a job to start building hours, that then makes you more attractive to the more desirable airlines.
I won't lie, professional pilot training is tough and expensive, but if you're determined enough and got the right skills and qualities then it's an interesting alternative to spending a few years in uni and subsequent Tesco checkout till.
Oxford Aviation Academy (my route, now has me in the RHS of a B737-800 for a European carrier), CTC Wings and FTE for integrated ATPL courses. Perhaps start at a Flyer exhibition (usually one at T5 Heathrow) to be able to visit representatives from each school. From there go to some school open days to visit the classrooms/facilities/meet instructors etc.
A levels are usually not required, but having Maths and Physics does help in some of the more in depth theoretical stuff. Before enrolling at any flight school your lad will need to likely go through an internal selection process - quite competitive - any also hold a valid Class 1 CAA medical courtesy of a day down at the CAA HQ in Gatwick.
That's the easy bit. Once you're through training you will likely have a debt of around £80k, so a job is next priority. The usual low cost carriers are most likely to hire, it's rare for a 0 hour pilot with his fresh new licence goes straight into the legacy carriers such as BA but occasionally happens. The main thing though is to get a job to start building hours, that then makes you more attractive to the more desirable airlines.
I won't lie, professional pilot training is tough and expensive, but if you're determined enough and got the right skills and qualities then it's an interesting alternative to spending a few years in uni and subsequent Tesco checkout till.
Muddle238 said:
The main thing though is to get a job to start building hours, that then makes you more attractive to the more desirable airlines.
I won't lie, professional pilot training is tough and expensive..
Expect to pay 80k+ for training, then £25k for an aircraft type rating and ongoing hourly rates for hours building or free/cheap labour as a glider-towing pilot, crop sprayer etc just to get in the door. Lots of out of work, freshly qualified frozen ATPL holders out there fighting for any position. A Project Manager I work with paid for his son to get through the training, still hasn't got a job in an airline after two years of trying. I won't lie, professional pilot training is tough and expensive..
If they're prepared to head East there are jobs in other countries but not a lot here. Ryanair/Easy eroded the pay and conditions, it's a lot of long, multi-sector days with people exhausted after their shifts. Point him to the Wannabe section of www.pprune.org for advice and real-life experiences of students.
Unfortunately, outfits like CTC and Oxford have a monopoly with the airlines regarding sticking low hour first officers into public transport jobs.
That's fine if you can go down that path, but lousy for everyone else who gain their professional licence through the traditional self-improver route and work their way through to a jet job.
I do warn aspiring pilots of this every time, as I've seen a decent number of non-sponsored 'wannabes' gain their licences, only to find themselves on the same pile as everyone else, desperate for a job, getting knocked back by all the big carriers, whilst watching their ratings expire.
Unless you can get sponsored, I'd struggle to recommend the self-improver route these days.
On top of this, I recently saw a new (and legal) Low-Cost roster under the new EASA flight duty periods. Pilot's will be expected to operate 5am starts (sometimes earlier), 11 hour+ days (not including commute), with minimum rest in-between, and most airlines these days see that as a target rather than a limit.
That's fine if you can go down that path, but lousy for everyone else who gain their professional licence through the traditional self-improver route and work their way through to a jet job.
I do warn aspiring pilots of this every time, as I've seen a decent number of non-sponsored 'wannabes' gain their licences, only to find themselves on the same pile as everyone else, desperate for a job, getting knocked back by all the big carriers, whilst watching their ratings expire.
Unless you can get sponsored, I'd struggle to recommend the self-improver route these days.
On top of this, I recently saw a new (and legal) Low-Cost roster under the new EASA flight duty periods. Pilot's will be expected to operate 5am starts (sometimes earlier), 11 hour+ days (not including commute), with minimum rest in-between, and most airlines these days see that as a target rather than a limit.
Edited by 5150 on Wednesday 30th September 09:17
Some useful info here as well as many job postings.. http://www.jobsinaviation.com/aviation/careers-adv...
kapiteinlangzaam said:
ATC is a great career with much better monetary and social conditions and pays enough for you to fly for leisure as often as you would like.
I'm not sure what airlines you are looking at or if you are just looking at starting salaries rather than career earnings but my airline certainly pays better and has better working conditions than any ATC job I've seen. We have a few ex air traffic controllers in my airline but I don't know anyone who has left to work in ATC.Great as you job is, the OPs son wants to be a pilot, I'm not sure why you'd recommend that he becomes an air traffic controller instead.
Like the OPs son, I always wanted to be a pilot, a career in ATC (whilst great for you) is not going to make him happy if that's where his passion is.
To the OP, Routes into commercial flying have changed a lot since I started but it's still a great career for those willing to take the plunge. I fly around 500 hours a year, see my family loads and have a great work life balance.
Opportunities are certainly opening up in good airlines, with lots of expansion, combined with retirements and a lack of people joining from the forces.
You know the love of flying statement I don't think can apply to modern commercial aviation unfortunately. If I could do it again I would have got my head down more and gone the military first.
That or maybe a different career like that of ATCO or plastic surgeon where I could afford to fly on my days off and enjoy it.
Don't get me wrong though, it's still the best job in the world from engine start to top of climb and then back down again. The 12hrs in the cruise can get a bit boring though. I'd like to stick to short haul but the money is in the heavy category.
Tell him to go to uni first and enjoy those 4yrs getting drunk and chasing girls as well as that degree as it will help in the future of being more than just a line pilot.
That's exactlly what I'll tell my son!
That or maybe a different career like that of ATCO or plastic surgeon where I could afford to fly on my days off and enjoy it.
Don't get me wrong though, it's still the best job in the world from engine start to top of climb and then back down again. The 12hrs in the cruise can get a bit boring though. I'd like to stick to short haul but the money is in the heavy category.
Tell him to go to uni first and enjoy those 4yrs getting drunk and chasing girls as well as that degree as it will help in the future of being more than just a line pilot.
That's exactlly what I'll tell my son!
Kempus said:
Tell him to go to uni first and enjoy those 4yrs getting drunk and chasing girls as well as that degree as it will help in the future of being more than just a line pilot.
That's exactlly what I'll tell my son!
That's funny; I'd recommend exactly the opposite to anyone who asked me. No idea who's right or wrong so just different perspectives I guess.That's exactlly what I'll tell my son!
My advice would be tell ur son to go to uni so he will have something to fall back on should he not get a job. Its important to remember a lot of guys never get a paid flying job.
The best advice I believe is to get your son onto a tagged scheme, something like the aer lingus scheme or BAFPP. Failing that CTC have airline programs with easyjet, flybe ect. These offer the best chance of your lad getting a job if he successfully completes training, but competition is fierce and he will have to stand out to get on the course.
CTC and OAA really do have a monopoly on the market, yes they cost more but the integrated guys going to these schools are the ones getting the jobs and not working in tescos worrying how to keep themselves current.
In no way are the modular schools offering inferior training, they just don't have the contacts to place there students with a job.
One of my best friends has spent the best part of 60-70k on his training, first time passes with great results and has had no luck in the last 12 months of getting a flying job!, (he's actually about to have to spend another couple of grand to keep his licenses valid I believe) that's the way it is.. He is certainly not alone it not being able to find a job.
if your lad is serious get him down to Gatwick for a class 1 medical before you spend to much cash
The best advice I believe is to get your son onto a tagged scheme, something like the aer lingus scheme or BAFPP. Failing that CTC have airline programs with easyjet, flybe ect. These offer the best chance of your lad getting a job if he successfully completes training, but competition is fierce and he will have to stand out to get on the course.
CTC and OAA really do have a monopoly on the market, yes they cost more but the integrated guys going to these schools are the ones getting the jobs and not working in tescos worrying how to keep themselves current.
In no way are the modular schools offering inferior training, they just don't have the contacts to place there students with a job.
One of my best friends has spent the best part of 60-70k on his training, first time passes with great results and has had no luck in the last 12 months of getting a flying job!, (he's actually about to have to spend another couple of grand to keep his licenses valid I believe) that's the way it is.. He is certainly not alone it not being able to find a job.
if your lad is serious get him down to Gatwick for a class 1 medical before you spend to much cash
Marc p said:
I wish him all the best, I desperately wanted to be a pilot(it's in my blood), however I was dealt a cruel hand after it was picked up that I had very mild colour blindness, which resulted in me being denied on my application.
This may not stop you going commercial. Military are strict and you're out if you fail the Ishihara Plate test however a Class 1 medical can be issued if passing another test (using lights) so you would still be ok. Aer Lingus as just closed it's fully-funded 2016 Cadet Pilot Training Programme. It was only open for a few weeks. This was how I got into the profession in the late 1990s. I'm not fully up to speed about what the minimum requirements are this time, but I'm sure it's GCSE level (it used to be). Most people will have a degree, or were at least in Uni when they started, but there is a small handful of pilots in Aer Lingus that I know with just GCSEs (having left in school in sixth form to become Cadets). Willie Walsh was in a similar position - he left school at 17 to become an Aer Lingus cadet. Anyway, your boy should keep a look out for that. If he has an Irish granny or something maybe he could get an Irish passport, although entry is for EU citizens, being Irish would likely have some advantage.
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff