Boeing 747-400F Crash Bagram - NTSB Report
Discussion
Very interesting report and presentation - and very revealing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjGRtCqMGXA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjGRtCqMGXA
I remember at the time of this crash thinking/assuming that the load had shifted causing an exaggerated and rapid climb followed by a stall. It never even crossed my mind as to what really happened. This goes to show the importance of not jumping to conclusions when it comes to crash investigations. It also demonstrates the importance of procedure driven ops and what can happen when you deviate from them.
Mind you, I dont really like the NTSB's method of 'hearing' a report. Seemed very hostile.
Mind you, I dont really like the NTSB's method of 'hearing' a report. Seemed very hostile.
topsparks said:
Shocked at the lack of restraint, only 24 straps for 12 tons, Boeing said they should have used 60 and only had one armoured vehicle not 5, unbelievable!
to be fair, there would have been a massive amount of arse covering from Boeing.I agree though, the way they were (not) secured is scary, especially when you consider it had already completed one flight and the straps were breaking and going loose.
The hard bit for me here is that in all the strapping layouts, they are strapping from the chassis/body of the vehicles to the pallet/floor, this is always going to cause issues as the vehicles have suspension and tyres, so whatever you strap over them is going to be subject to changes in strain as the vehicle moves on it's suspension.
(this is why if you look at car transporters, they strap the wheels down, NOT the car body)
Yes, this means the body can move vertically on it's springs, but unless you're going to strap it down with massive force to prevent movement (at which point what are you going to attach the ends of these straps to?), it's something you just have to live with.
FourWheelDrift said:
I haven't had time to look at the video yet, but with the photo of he chains above does that mean the straps used on the Bagram aircraft were the webbing type you would use strapping a car to a trailer?
seem to remeber reading that you can't use chains on cargo planes, they simply do not have hard-points for such.FourWheelDrift said:
I haven't had time to look at the video yet, but with the photo of he chains above does that mean the straps used on the Bagram aircraft were the webbing type you would use strapping a car to a trailer?
Similar but far stronger.Scuffers said:
seem to remeber reading that you can't use chains on cargo planes, they simply do not have hard-points for such.
It depends upon the a/c and its tie-down scheme I would immagine.On the Herc there were what appeared to be oversized 'pip-pins' that locked into floor points and which had a shackle on the end. Chains were then attached to these using rotary chain tensioners.
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
It depends upon the a/c and its tie-down scheme I would immagine.
On the Herc there were what appeared to be oversized 'pip-pins' that locked into floor points and which had a shackle on the end. Chains were then attached to these using rotary chain tensioners.
sorry, I should have been more specific, civilian cargo planes as in the 747-400 here. On the Herc there were what appeared to be oversized 'pip-pins' that locked into floor points and which had a shackle on the end. Chains were then attached to these using rotary chain tensioners.
they are designed for palletised loads not 'loose' loads.
Last time I got a car air-freighted, it had to be secured on a 'pallet' such that all they had to do once loaded into the plane was to secure the pallet to the floor, not the load (car) itself.
Scuffers said:
sorry, I should have been more specific, civilian cargo planes as in the 747-400 here.
they are designed for palletised loads not 'loose' loads.
Last time I got a car air-freighted, it had to be secured on a 'pallet' such that all they had to do once loaded into the plane was to secure the pallet to the floor, not the load (car) itself.
Pallets locked to the floor via clamps, bears paw they used to be called.they are designed for palletised loads not 'loose' loads.
Last time I got a car air-freighted, it had to be secured on a 'pallet' such that all they had to do once loaded into the plane was to secure the pallet to the floor, not the load (car) itself.
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