Guy Martin and the Vulcan

[saaby93]

227bhp said:

Hans Asperger who defined it died in 1980.

It didn't enter text books until 1994
check this programme
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03wp5j4
especially at 14:30
Own up if you have more than one can of WD40

[Halmyre]

saaby93 said:

It didn't enter text books until 1994
check this programme
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03wp5j4
especially at 14:30
Own up if you have more than one can of WD40

That's me, but only because I keep losing the damn things. It's easier to buy a new tin than turn the garage/shed/hall-cupboard upside-down looking for it.

[227bhp]

Halmyre said:

saaby93 said:

It didn't enter text books until 1994
check this programme
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03wp5j4
especially at 14:30
Own up if you have more than one can of WD40

That's me, but only because I keep losing the damn things. It's easier to buy a new tin than turn the garage/shed/hall-cupboard upside-down looking for it.

One swallow does not a summer make.
Thanks for the link Saaby, listening to it just reinforces why (particularly in this thread) it is difficult to define and understand this condition.

Edited by 227bhp on Monday 23 November 08:41

[NM62]

227bhp said:

NM62 said:

Aspergers is just a mild form of Autism See Here - my nephew has it.

That's like arguing a Fiesta is a mild form of Focus because they are both Fords. An outsider might think they are similar or the same, but the owners won't.
Autistic sufferers have speech development issues, AS generally don't.

Edited by 227bhp on Monday 23 November 07:44

No it's like saying a Fiesta is a mild form of a Fiesta ST!

Are you a doctor in this field?

Because the consultant who diagnosed my nephew with Aspergers detailed it as I stated as we had to have our son tested also, but then this is PH where some people just know best!

Edited by NM62 on Monday 23 November 15:33

[saaby93]

227bhp said:

One swallow does not a summer make.
Thanks for the link Saaby, listening to it just reinforces why (particularly in this thread) it is difficult to define and understand this condition.

more here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmYDgncMhXw

[Kitchski]

The funny (for me) thing with all this is that I got into a conversation with my wife last night about this thread and the Autism spectrum (she studied it briefly at Uni), and we did some reading up on Aspergers syndrome.

I tick every single box, except the difficult telling lies (not that I do, but I know I could if I wanted to). In fact some of the symptoms had us laughing, because it basically could have been written about me.

So I've either got it, or I'm on the spectrum, it seems. They reckon lots of other people are, only they don't know it.

[saaby93]

Kitchski said:

The funny (for me) thing with all this is that I got into a conversation with my wife last night about this thread and the Autism spectrum (she studied it briefly at Uni), and we did some reading up on Aspergers syndrome.

I tick every single box, except the difficult telling lies (not that I do, but I know I could if I wanted to). In fact some of the symptoms had us laughing, because it basically could have been written about me.

So I've either got it, or I'm on the spectrum, it seems. They reckon lots of other people are, only they don't know it.

We've all got it. It's part of being human. All that varies is how much. Its like saying you have a nose. We all have different noses. It's not a problem.

Listen to that BBC link.
It seems to be mainly by women who cant understand why men behave in certain ways.
(like having 2 cans of WD40 when surely one would be enough)
The workings of a woman can also be a mystery to a man but they haven't made up a name for it yet ( or have they)

[NM62]

Sadly, as with ALL Mental Health Conditions it's not that funny living with any of these conditions / disorders (I appreciate you weren't saying it was humorous)

My Nephew has Aspergers and he is not really able to function properly, things like having his food cut up or his hair brushed and he's 26.

My Cousin's son has a severe form of Autism, attends special schools and will need supervision for the rest of his life.

My son has OCD and was tested for all conditions in the Autistic Spectrum (including Asperger's) because they share a lot of common traits.

This is a useful link for Aspergers

ETA: I think it's something like 1 in 3 people have a mental health condition.

Edited by NM62 on Tuesday 24th November 10:14

[saaby93]

NM62 said:

My Nephew has Aspergers and he is not really able to function properly, things like having his food cut up or his hair brushed and he's 26.

I'm afraid that latter is more likely to be autism rather than aspergers ( but whatever makes you most comfortbale)
Aspergers is the way some people treat signals differently to others as that beeb programme describes
I'm not happy with the way that site can confuse the two either, aspergers isn't necessarily a disability and if I remember rightly the bloke who brought it to the fore wished people would stop putting it under autism.
It can be more of a disablity for those that dont understand that other people can think differently to themselves - see some of the cycling threads

Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 24th November 10:57

[RobM77]

If it needs a name to stop people criticising and bullying others, then so be it, but what really matters here is that nobody you'll meet in life is perfect and if you want to accept the good bits of someone then you have to accept the rest of them too. Picking up on aspects of someone that you can criticise and making fun of them is just playground bullying, whether the victim has a condition that can be named or not.

What really matters here is whether you enjoy watching Guy Martin road racing and on TV. The truth is that most of think he's brilliant and also think his availability as a TV presenter has brought some excellent programmes on engineering onto the TV that otherwise wouldn't have been made. He's one of the most genuine and down to earth TV personalities we've had in ages and I think he's brilliant at what he does.

So I think we should celebrate that on Sunday night they'll be a bit of TV that isn't about reality celebrity makeover dance offs in jungles, for a short while they'll be TV all about the Avro Vulcan

[227bhp]

saaby93 said:

227bhp said:

One swallow does not a summer make.
Thanks for the link Saaby, listening to it just reinforces why (particularly in this thread) it is difficult to define and understand this condition.

more here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmYDgncMhXw

If you like your AS cartoons then try Mary & Max, although it is a bit sad.
As your link points out, lots of AS sufferers end up in engineering/mechanical based jobs, the object of this thread being a prime example. I wonder how many are also linked with computer based jobs, I would expect that to be quite a high percentage too.

[RobM77]

227bhp said:

If you like your AS cartoons then try Mary & Max, although it is a bit sad.
As your link points out, lots of AS sufferers end up in engineering/mechanical based jobs, the object of this thread being a prime example. I wonder how many are also linked with computer based jobs, I would expect that to be quite a high percentage too.

Plenty I'm sure, it's just a fairly natural consequence of not socialising much as a child and burying yourself in books, Lego and computers instead, or spending hours taking things apart on your own and figuring out how they work. I'm a firm believer in seeing the positive in things and commensurate with that I think that whilst life with Aspergers can be difficult, I also think there are lots of aspects of Aspergers that have a positive benefit to the individual as well (such as the potential to become better than average at mechanical things, IT, meteorology, or whatever it happens to be), and as I said above, we have to take the rough with the smooth with people.

[227bhp]

NM62 said:

227bhp said:

NM62 said:

Aspergers is just a mild form of Autism See Here - my nephew has it.

That's like arguing a Fiesta is a mild form of Focus because they are both Fords. An outsider might think they are similar or the same, but the owners won't.
Autistic sufferers have speech development issues, AS generally don't.

Edited by 227bhp on Monday 23 November 07:44

No it's like saying a Fiesta is a mild form of a Fiesta ST!

Are you a doctor in this field?

Because the consultant who diagnosed my nephew with Aspergers detailed it as I stated as we had to have our son tested also, but then this is PH where some people just know best!

Quite silly to wheel out the old 'because it's PH' quote. This is real life with real people, some who happen to know more than you or have different opinions, it just happens that it's more concentrated and the conversation be far more factual because we can all go away and form our speeches before posting them up.
I do happen to have a lot of knowledge on the subject, it's just that the penny hasn't dropped with you as to why yet.

You can listen to any 'expert' you like, they will all tell you similar, but then disagree on some points and have varying opinions. One thing most of them don't have is first hand experience so are only using what they were taught or read in a book. Certainly not many you will come into contact with have made a lifetimes study of it like the fella (Tony Attwood) in one of the links earlier.
Whilst both the Fiesta and the Focus came from the same Ford factory and share some of the same components, they aren't classed as being the same vehicles, just like autism isn't Aspergers. You've just quoted them as being different:

NM62 said:

My Nephew has Aspergers and he is not really able to function properly, things like having his food cut up or his hair brushed and he's 26.

My Cousin's son has a severe form of Autism, attends special schools and will need supervision for the rest of his life.

If that is AS then it's quite severe and debilitating, not really what we are referring to here which is HF or 'almost normal'. Is this the sole issue causing that or are there other factors contributing? Sounds like some kind of physical disability.

Edited by 227bhp on Tuesday 24th November 14:00

[saaby93]

227bhp said:

If you like your AS cartoons then try Mary & Max, although it is a bit sad.
As your link points out, lots of AS sufferers end up in engineering/mechanical based jobs,

Hey they're not sufferers.
Sometimes its an advantage over those that cant think that way , sometimes it isnt.
Einstein and Turin?
Just think of it as different.

[NM62]

saaby93 said:

NM62 said:

My Nephew has Aspergers and he is not really able to function properly, things like having his food cut up or his hair brushed and he's 26.

I'm afraid that latter is more likely to be autism rather than aspergers ( but whatever makes you most comfortbale)
Aspergers is the way some people treat signals differently to others as that beeb programme describes
I'm not happy with the way that site can confuse the two either, aspergers isn't necessarily a disability and if I remember rightly the bloke who brought it to the fore wished people would stop putting it under autism.
It can be more of a disablity for those that dont understand that other people can think differently to themselves - see some of the cycling threads

Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 24th November 10:57

Sorry for going O/T mods.

My Nephew has been diagnosed (by three different consultants) as having Asperger's, his parents didn't believe it at first so asked for a second and third opinion at great cost (both here and the US) - it's not about making me comfortable it is was what the medical professionals diagnosed - are you saying they are wrong?

The last diagnosis was 5 years ago if you are privy to changes in that time which would radically alter the diagnosis then PM me the details and I'll pass them to his parents.

As for not putting it under Autism (as 229BHP brought to the fore so eloquently) did you actually look at the link I put in for the Autism society, the first thing they say is that it is a form of Autism - if the Autism Society say that then why shouldn't I or are you saying they are wrong too?

I am well aware of the effects of Mental Health conditions from first hands experience with my son / nephew but I am not in the medical arena, my Wife and it was her who spotted that my Nephew showed signs of Asperger's at a very early age but was told by her sister she was wrong - 15 years later they got the first diagnosis which was 15 years wasted as far as my nephew is concerned.

[227bhp]

RobM77 said:

227bhp said:

If you like your AS cartoons then try Mary & Max, although it is a bit sad.
As your link points out, lots of AS sufferers end up in engineering/mechanical based jobs, the object of this thread being a prime example. I wonder how many are also linked with computer based jobs, I would expect that to be quite a high percentage too.

Plenty I'm sure, it's just a fairly natural consequence of not socialising much as a child and burying yourself in books, Lego and computers instead, or spending hours taking things apart on your own and figuring out how they work. I'm a firm believer in seeing the positive in things and commensurate with that I think that whilst life with Aspergers can be difficult, I also think there are lots of aspects of Aspergers that have a positive benefit to the individual as well (such as the potential to become better than average at mechanical things, IT, meteorology, or whatever it happens to be), and as I said above, we have to take the rough with the smooth with people.

Yes I agree, but what you are missing is that the other people who are in a relationship with someone who has AS don't have all their needs met or be happy. This relationship can be purely work (professional) or on a personal level. I remember reading about some guy who was in his 70s before finding out he had it - he'd been through something like 4 marriages! I think (and as the video shown earlier showed) is that AS in many ways is just like having all the worst man traits.

When you are so far up the scale (HF AS) you look at NTs and think 'why are you lying?' 'Why do you stand around talking utter rubbish at social gatherings? How can you possibly get anything worthwhile from that?' and you have to make a decision as to whether you be yourself and not do this, or put on your NT mask and join in. It's like an old game show where the presenter would almost sing; "Hi, what's your name and where do you come from?!" You know and understand that is what makes people (99% of women) tick, but it's hard work.

At every guest on his quiz, I hear R2 presenter Ken Bruce making dull conversation with the competitors, I just want him to get on with it! I'm not interested to hear about Bob and his wife or let him say his hellos to 'everyone who knows me' ffs, just do the quiz and play a record, but that is what people love to do and hear apparently.

GM is very similar, he notes in his book that he doesn't bother with interviews unless he really has to, then I guess all he does is put his mask on, grit his teeth, go out there and get on with it, but it's completely the opposite of what he wants to do. This is why AS people can be described as selfish, I guess in a way it is.

[227bhp]

saaby93 said:

227bhp said:

If you like your AS cartoons then try Mary & Max, although it is a bit sad.
As your link points out, lots of AS sufferers end up in engineering/mechanical based jobs,

Hey they're not sufferers.
Sometimes its an advantage over those that cant think that way , sometimes it isnt.
Einstein and Turin?
Just think of it as different.

That's a matter of nomenclature and opinion - you can't argue with opinion!
Ask anyone who has AS if they would rather not have it and opinions will be divided. It's like being gay (perhaps) some will openly embrace it, some will keep it under wraps, some wish they were not, others celebrate that they are.

[NM62]

227bhp said:

NM62 said:

227bhp said:

NM62 said:

Aspergers is just a mild form of Autism See Here - my nephew has it.

That's like arguing a Fiesta is a mild form of Focus because they are both Fords. An outsider might think they are similar or the same, but the owners won't.
Autistic sufferers have speech development issues, AS generally don't.

Edited by 227bhp on Monday 23 November 07:44

No it's like saying a Fiesta is a mild form of a Fiesta ST!

Are you a doctor in this field?

Because the consultant who diagnosed my nephew with Aspergers detailed it as I stated as we had to have our son tested also, but then this is PH where some people just know best!

Quite silly to wheel out the old 'because it's PH' quote. This is real life with real people, some who happen to know more than you or have different opinions, it just happens that it's more concentrated and the conversation be far more factual because we can all go away and form our speeches before posting them up.
I do happen to have a lot of knowledge on the subject, it's just that the penny hasn't dropped with you as to why yet.

You can listen to any 'expert' you like, they will all tell you different, disagree on some points and have varying opinions. One thing most of them don't have is first hand experience so are only using what they were taught or read in a book. Certainly not many you will come into contact with have made a lifetimes study of it like the fella (Tony Attwood) in one of the links earlier.
Whilst both the Fiesta and the Focus came from the same Ford factory and share some of the same components, they aren't classed as being the same vehicles, just like autism isn't Aspergers. You've just quoted them as being different:

NM62 said:

My Nephew has Aspergers and he is not really able to function properly, things like having his food cut up or his hair brushed and he's 26.

My Cousin's son has a severe form of Autism, attends special schools and will need supervision for the rest of his life.

If that is AS then it's quite severe and debilitating, not really what we are referring to here which is HF or 'almost normal'. Is this the sole issue causing that or are there other factors contributing? Sounds like some kind of physical disability.

In order

Sorry for using the 'Because PH' - it's just a lot of people on here argue black is white.

All I originally stated was that "Asperger's was a mild form of Autism".

I haven't read any where that it isn't and certainly the Autism Society say it is on their website.

If that is not the case then I stand corrected.

My own son was tested for AS, ADHD, and other disorders on the Autism Spectrum as part of the diagnosis of his OCD, which was where I took a great deal more interest, the internet is a great and sometimes only source when dealing with such topics.

The penny did drop that you knew quite a lot and my analogy of the Fiesta was how I understand Autism and Asperger's to be linked. Same Base - Fiesta - Different Variants - Standard(Mild) and ST(Full On) - it's how, I as a non medical person make sense of it.

My knowledge is from the first hand experiences with my Nephew - who was diagnosed by three consultants (1 NHS and 2 private) as having AS.

He can do his own hair and cut food he just needs help sometimes as he 'Just can't do it', he manages to go the pub but still likes his parents to pick him up sometimes - ordinarily I would just say he was 'Molly Coddled' by his parents if I didn't know why.

He is 'Almost Normal' perhaps I mad it sound worse than it was.

As stated in a previous reply my wife (who is a nurse) spotted the traits when he was very young and his parent's ignored it for 15 years which is the sad part.

[RobM77]

227bhp said:

RobM77 said:

227bhp said:

If you like your AS cartoons then try Mary & Max, although it is a bit sad.
As your link points out, lots of AS sufferers end up in engineering/mechanical based jobs, the object of this thread being a prime example. I wonder how many are also linked with computer based jobs, I would expect that to be quite a high percentage too.

Plenty I'm sure, it's just a fairly natural consequence of not socialising much as a child and burying yourself in books, Lego and computers instead, or spending hours taking things apart on your own and figuring out how they work. I'm a firm believer in seeing the positive in things and commensurate with that I think that whilst life with Aspergers can be difficult, I also think there are lots of aspects of Aspergers that have a positive benefit to the individual as well (such as the potential to become better than average at mechanical things, IT, meteorology, or whatever it happens to be), and as I said above, we have to take the rough with the smooth with people.

Yes I agree, but what you are missing is that the other people who are in a relationship with someone who has AS don't have all their needs met or be happy. This relationship can be purely work (professional) or on a personal level. I remember reading about some guy who was in his 70s before finding out he had it - he'd been through something like 4 marriages! I think (and as the video shown earlier showed) is that AS in many ways is just like having all the worst man traits.

When you are so far up the scale (HF AS) you look at NTs and think 'why are you lying?' 'Why do you stand around talking utter rubbish at social gatherings? How can you possibly get anything worthwhile from that?' and you have to make a decision as to whether you be yourself and not do this, or put on your NT mask and join in. It's like an old game show where the presenter would almost sing; "Hi, what's your name and where do you come from?!" You know and understand that is what makes people (99% of women) tick, but it's hard work.

At every guest on his quiz, I hear R2 presenter Ken Bruce making dull conversation with the competitors, I just want him to get on with it! I'm not interested to hear about Bob and his wife or let him say his hellos to 'everyone who knows me' ffs, just do the quiz and play a record, but that is what people love to do and hear apparently.

GM is very similar, he notes in his book that he doesn't bother with interviews unless he really has to, then I guess all he does is put his mask on, grit his teeth, go out there and get on with it, but it's completely the opposite of what he wants to do. This is why AS people can be described as selfish, I guess in a way it is.

I completely agree, but whilst it might be harder for someone with AS to find partners and a spouse, it's not impossible. The person with AS will just find their opportunities to meet people far more limited, the people they date fairly likely to struggle tolerating them and some relationships ending due to AS symptoms, and the eventual marriage perhaps harder work in certain areas. It's the same process that most people go through though in dating and eventually marriage, it'll just be more difficult and require more time and effort for someone with Aspergers. It's perfectly possible to achieve your goals and be very happy in life with AS, it's just harder.

Here's someone from my field talking about this issue in a Q&A session after a talk. The title of the video refers to dyslexia, but the principle that he outlines is the same:

http://youtu.be/bBD_LTPjYVQ

I think a diagnosis can help, but it shouldn't be seen as a barrier, more like an easier route through to information and guidance on how to deal with life.

[saaby93]

RobM77 said:

I completely agree, but whilst it might be harder for someone with AS to find partners and a spouse, it's not impossible. The person with AS will just find their opportunities to meet people far more limited, the people they date fairly likely to struggle tolerating them and some relationships ending due to AS symptoms, and the eventual marriage perhaps harder work in certain areas. It's the same process that most people go through though in dating and eventually marriage, it'll just be more difficult and require more time and effort for someone with Aspergers. It's perfectly possible to achieve your goals and be very happy in life with AS, it's just harder.

no some things will be easier some harder - its just different

There was a video on beeb site a few weeks ago talking about marriage break ups for soem reason
The wife couldn't understand why her husband was so interested in restoring buses and it was likely to lead to the failure of their(long) marriage

He said that if he didnt restore buses who else would? It was a very important thing to do. Why should it it lead to failure of marriage?

It's just two different ways of thinking.
He should be able to restore buses, she shoudlnt think it as a problem that could lead to marriage failure and he ought to be aware that if he over does buses she might become envious. It could work the other way if she has an old embroidery collection.