Driving a large steam locomotive....
Discussion
Wacky Racer said:
I've been on that footplate. I particularly like the heated mugholder.Nik da Greek said:
. Route knowledge becomes almost supernatural; old drivers will know where they are even in the fog by the different sound the track makes over bridges and suchlike.
I remember the first day with my DI. 90mph, out of Balcombe tunnel, through Balcombe and onto Balcombe Viaduct. THICK FOG. I couldn't see a bloody thing."What shall I do now Rob?', I asked.
'Keep doing 90, mate' was the response.
Funnily enough, driving a route in thick fog which I wasn't very confident over proved my DI right when I said I didn't think I knew it.
SWTH said:
Already been done in one form or another:
Obviously this arrangement made conventional coal firing impossible so these were oil-fired.
The Southern Railway's concept for a cab-forward steam loco:
O. V. S. Bullied's 'Leader'. This was a coal-fired machine with the driver in the cab at the outer end (it had a driving cab at each end to eliminate having to turn the engine), and the fireman in a cab in the middle between the boiler and bunker. Unsurprisingly, conditions on the firemans footplate were somewhat warm, as was the drivers cab at the smokebox end. 5 were ordered but only one was finished - the second machine was almost finished but never turned a wheel in anger, and the other three were in various stages of construction. The project was scrapped after three years due to design defects and the need for considerable remedial works to sort the problems encountered in trials with the first machine.
There was one final attempt to revive steam in the 1980s, this was the ACE 3000 project in the US. With a ready source of fuel there was some interest in whether steam had a place hauling coal trains for American Coal Enterprises, rather than diesels using (at the time) expensive imported oil.
Plenty of information on the ACE 3000 (and other advanced steam projects) can be found here.
There's one at the railway museum at Sacramento. Absolutely massive, and actually quite evil lookig front-on.
Obviously this arrangement made conventional coal firing impossible so these were oil-fired.
The Southern Railway's concept for a cab-forward steam loco:
O. V. S. Bullied's 'Leader'. This was a coal-fired machine with the driver in the cab at the outer end (it had a driving cab at each end to eliminate having to turn the engine), and the fireman in a cab in the middle between the boiler and bunker. Unsurprisingly, conditions on the firemans footplate were somewhat warm, as was the drivers cab at the smokebox end. 5 were ordered but only one was finished - the second machine was almost finished but never turned a wheel in anger, and the other three were in various stages of construction. The project was scrapped after three years due to design defects and the need for considerable remedial works to sort the problems encountered in trials with the first machine.
There was one final attempt to revive steam in the 1980s, this was the ACE 3000 project in the US. With a ready source of fuel there was some interest in whether steam had a place hauling coal trains for American Coal Enterprises, rather than diesels using (at the time) expensive imported oil.
Plenty of information on the ACE 3000 (and other advanced steam projects) can be found here.
If i remember what the bloke guiding folks around it was saying the route it ran in went thrould loads of very long tunnels and with the crew at the rear locos they'd be choking with the smoke. So not for visibility but to be able to breathe in tunnels. These hauled heavy freight so no passengers behind, but lots of smoke. At least that's what the bloke said.
tvrolet said:
If i remember what the bloke guiding folks around it was saying the route it ran in went thrould loads of very long tunnels and with the crew at the rear locos they'd be choking with the smoke. So not for visibility but to be able to breathe in tunnels. These hauled heavy freight so no passengers behind, but lots of smoke. At least that's what the bloke said.
I'd never thought of that! I've wanted to take a footplate course for some years now but the thought of being near-suffocated by smoke in a tunnel puts me off - of course that's one of the reasons the cab-forwards were created.Think of the poor buggers crewing this:
The LNER's only Garratt, built for a very specific role: to bank heavy freight up the Worsborough Bank on the Woodhead route. A typical train would be an O4 (or similar heavy freight 2-8-0), 60-odd wagons and another O4 (sometimes two) at the rear. At the bottom of the hill the U1 would buffer up to the rear, and all three or four engines would make the four mile ascent. This involved passing through the Silkstone Tunnels - as the engine right at the back it wasn't exactly a pleasant place to be.
Tunnels aren't normally a problem - the big danger with a steam engine in a tunnel is a blowback - the exhaust pressure travelling back along the tubes and blowing the fire into the cab. Normally this is prevented by using the blower to provide extra draught up the chimney and by keeping the firehole door shut.
The LNER's only Garratt, built for a very specific role: to bank heavy freight up the Worsborough Bank on the Woodhead route. A typical train would be an O4 (or similar heavy freight 2-8-0), 60-odd wagons and another O4 (sometimes two) at the rear. At the bottom of the hill the U1 would buffer up to the rear, and all three or four engines would make the four mile ascent. This involved passing through the Silkstone Tunnels - as the engine right at the back it wasn't exactly a pleasant place to be.
Tunnels aren't normally a problem - the big danger with a steam engine in a tunnel is a blowback - the exhaust pressure travelling back along the tubes and blowing the fire into the cab. Normally this is prevented by using the blower to provide extra draught up the chimney and by keeping the firehole door shut.
Southern Pacific "cab forwards" locos were built that way because of the smoke issues in long tunnels and snow sheds over Donner Pass and other routes. Evan diesels suffered suffocation due cooling air starvation, so SP modified some locos with "elephant ears" then had EMD built a type of loco unique to SP and the Rio Grande, the tunnel motor.
EMD SD45 20cylinder 3600hp with elephant ears fans suck in at a lower level(just!)
This is a tunnel motor, same principal as the elephant ears. And a very nice model too, note long chassis again move the rads further from engine heat. Tunnel motors used either 16cylinder 3000hp engines or the 20 cylinder, as above.
EMD SD45 20cylinder 3600hp with elephant ears fans suck in at a lower level(just!)
This is a tunnel motor, same principal as the elephant ears. And a very nice model too, note long chassis again move the rads further from engine heat. Tunnel motors used either 16cylinder 3000hp engines or the 20 cylinder, as above.
Edited by W124Bob on Thursday 4th February 16:38
Garratts? - No bother. we have three working examples on the WHR and they're a joy to work on. These particular NG/G16's are the most powerful two-foot gauge locomotives ever built, and weigh in at around 65 tonnes each. Water is in the front bunker, and coal in the rear.
https://youtu.be/taNwYqvz6Ek
https://youtu.be/taNwYqvz6Ek
DaveGoddard said:
I'd never thought of that! I've wanted to take a footplate course for some years now but the thought of being near-suffocated by smoke in a tunnel puts me off - of course that's one of the reasons the cab-forwards were created.
Grandad drove on the Somerset and Dorset. He used to say that the two tunnels running south out of Bath were so tight that the crew had to set the throttle wide open beforehand, and lie down on the floor in the cab with a wet rag over their mouths to avoid getting suffocated.
One thing that has changed is the number of land marks drivers have, steam men had signal boxes every few miles. They felt the road as much anything, a set of points at a certain spot, a rough bridge etc. I sit in my modern aircon cab pretty insulated, travelling at 90plus mph, signalboxes now almost windowless tin sheds. You can spot the places where boxes have gone or remember a friendly wave from a bobby at his window(Banbury still do it). The last steam man in my area is still driving (at 67) fulltime for my company, when he goes we loose a real link with the past. Even drivers of my seniority (July'78) are becoming a bit like the last dinosaurs! Railway wise I grew up with class20's, rare to get one on my old patch on it's own but just a bit like a steamer long hood forward. A tip for cooking breakfast on the shovel, get it red hot in the firebox then take it out to cook on! Onions on the manifold on a class 47 wrapped with butter in tin foil goes well. Just nicely done by the time we got to Drakelow!
WelshChris said:
Garratts? - No bother. we have three working examples on the WHR and they're a joy to work on. These particular NG/G16's are the most powerful two-foot gauge locomotives ever built, and weigh in at around 65 tonnes each. Water is in the front bunker, and coal in the rear.
https://youtu.be/taNwYqvz6Ek
Indeed, but we do run them coal bunker first up the hill through T4 and Goat Tunnel https://youtu.be/taNwYqvz6Ek
Silent1 said:
mrmaggit said:
When he died I was invited to release his ashes into the fire of a loco. The draw from the fire is so great that the ashes lift up from the shovel and fly up into the fire like magic. He'd have loved it.
That's how I want to go too. I have even chosen the piece of track. Luckily, steam trains still run on it.
Can't they put you into the fire whole and then you can help power the train? That's how I want to go too. I have even chosen the piece of track. Luckily, steam trains still run on it.
ecsrobin said:
marksx said:
cjs racing. said:
If you think the train is mad, try a plane that has no front screen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piQ7DZj_axk
Well, I never knew that!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piQ7DZj_axk
Flying Phil said:
Silent1 said:
mrmaggit said:
When he died I was invited to release his ashes into the fire of a loco. The draw from the fire is so great that the ashes lift up from the shovel and fly up into the fire like magic. He'd have loved it.
That's how I want to go too. I have even chosen the piece of track. Luckily, steam trains still run on it.
Can't they put you into the fire whole and then you can help power the train? That's how I want to go too. I have even chosen the piece of track. Luckily, steam trains still run on it.
W124Bob said:
One thing that has changed is the number of land marks drivers have, steam men had signal boxes every few miles. They felt the road as much anything, a set of points at a certain spot, a rough bridge etc. I sit in my modern aircon cab pretty insulated, travelling at 90plus mph, signalboxes now almost windowless tin sheds. You can spot the places where boxes have gone or remember a friendly wave from a bobby at his window(Banbury still do it). The last steam man in my area is still driving (at 67) fulltime for my company, when he goes we loose a real link with the past. Even drivers of my seniority (July'78) are becoming a bit like the last dinosaurs! Railway wise I grew up with class20's, rare to get one on my old patch on it's own but just a bit like a steamer long hood forward. A tip for cooking breakfast on the shovel, get it red hot in the firebox then take it out to cook on! Onions on the manifold on a class 47 wrapped with butter in tin foil goes well. Just nicely done by the time we got to Drakelow!
I still manage to warm a pasty up on the manifold of a 66 occasionally!Sadly, as the years pass, it's getting harder to see some of our landmarks for the trees and bushes which have grown up inside the railway boundary. You're spot on about the Bobbies at Banbury though, I sailed through three times last week in the small hours with 6V25, turned the cab light on and got a cheery wave from the Bobbies in North and South boxes.
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff