No life jackets on over-water flight - is this acceptable?
Discussion
On a recent flight from Miami to Nassau with American Airlines I noticed something different in the usual safety demo; there was no mention of life jackets.
This is an over-water flight.
Then I saw this:
And in the safety card they show this:
American Airlines expects its victims, sorry, passengers - as the fuselage fills with water - to dismantle their seats, take their seat cushions to the emergency exits, leave the aircraft holding their seat cushion, and then use their upper body strength to hold onto the cushion as they float in the ocean.
What could possibly go wrong?
How is this legal?
This is an over-water flight.
Then I saw this:
And in the safety card they show this:
American Airlines expects its victims, sorry, passengers - as the fuselage fills with water - to dismantle their seats, take their seat cushions to the emergency exits, leave the aircraft holding their seat cushion, and then use their upper body strength to hold onto the cushion as they float in the ocean.
What could possibly go wrong?
How is this legal?
Ayahuasca said:
On a recent flight from Miami to Nassau with American Airlines I noticed something different in the usual safety demo; there was no mention of life jackets.
This is an over-water flight.
Then I saw this:
And in the safety card they show this:
American Airlines expects its victims, sorry, passengers - as the fuselage fills with water - to dismantle their seats, take their seat cushions to the emergency exits, leave the aircraft holding their seat cushion, and then use their upper body strength to hold onto the cushion as they float in the ocean.
What could possibly go wrong?
How is this legal?
Given the chances of surviving a water landing are miniscule (you'll probably never see another Hudson River event in your lifetime), I really wouldn't worry about it.This is an over-water flight.
Then I saw this:
And in the safety card they show this:
American Airlines expects its victims, sorry, passengers - as the fuselage fills with water - to dismantle their seats, take their seat cushions to the emergency exits, leave the aircraft holding their seat cushion, and then use their upper body strength to hold onto the cushion as they float in the ocean.
What could possibly go wrong?
How is this legal?
I've flown Miami to Nassau with American Eagle a few years ago but I don't remember whether they had life jackets or just the flotation device.
In any case, the process of taking the floating seat out of the plane with you is pretty similar to taking a life jacket, so is there any practical difference? Once in the water, having a life jacket is better over the flotation device although the what are the odds of surviving a water crash landing anyway?
In any case, the process of taking the floating seat out of the plane with you is pretty similar to taking a life jacket, so is there any practical difference? Once in the water, having a life jacket is better over the flotation device although the what are the odds of surviving a water crash landing anyway?
Mandat said:
I've flown Miami to Nassau with American Eagle a few years ago but I don't remember whether they had life jackets or just the flotation device.
In any case, the process of taking the floating seat out of the plane with you is pretty similar to taking a life jacket, so is there any practical difference? Once in the water, having a life jacket is better over the flotation device although the what are the odds of surviving a water crash landing anyway?
The process would be very different. In any case, the process of taking the floating seat out of the plane with you is pretty similar to taking a life jacket, so is there any practical difference? Once in the water, having a life jacket is better over the flotation device although the what are the odds of surviving a water crash landing anyway?
Life jacket - whilst seated, remove from under seat, fit it, forget about it until after you leave the aircraft. Both hands are available to help yourself and others.
Cushion - stand up, wrestle cushion up, exactly where you stand to do this is not clear, drag bulky cushion to exit. Your hands are not free because they are holding the cusion. Without using your hands, exit the aircraft.
They tell you never to inflate your life jacket inside the aircraft for a reason - an inflated jacket will impede your exit. A cushion will too, but at least with the jacket your hands are free.
I've just dug up a photo from my trip to Nassau.
The plane used is quite small and cramped (ATR I recall) and perhaps life jackets aren't included as standard due to space or weight constraints.
Presumably, the FAA wouldn't allow the planes to fly without life jackets if safety was unacceptably compromised.
Ayahuasca said:
Mandat said:
I've flown Miami to Nassau with American Eagle a few years ago but I don't remember whether they had life jackets or just the flotation device.
In any case, the process of taking the floating seat out of the plane with you is pretty similar to taking a life jacket, so is there any practical difference? Once in the water, having a life jacket is better over the flotation device although the what are the odds of surviving a water crash landing anyway?
The process would be very different. In any case, the process of taking the floating seat out of the plane with you is pretty similar to taking a life jacket, so is there any practical difference? Once in the water, having a life jacket is better over the flotation device although the what are the odds of surviving a water crash landing anyway?
Life jacket - whilst seated, remove from under seat, fit it, forget about it until after you leave the aircraft. Both hands are available to help yourself and others.
Cushion - stand up, wrestle cushion up, exactly where you stand to do this is not clear, drag bulky cushion to exit. Your hands are not free because they are holding the cusion. Without using your hands, exit the aircraft.
They tell you never to inflate your life jacket inside the aircraft for a reason - an inflated jacket will impede your exit. A cushion will too, but at least with the jacket your hands are free.
I recall watching a TV programme about air crash investigation that said nobody had ever survived a passenger jet crash into the sea . Interested to hear if anybody knows different . Hudson was mentioned , if it had been sea not river outcome would have been different . Does this make all life jackets redundant anyway ?
mycroft said:
I recall watching a TV programme about air crash investigation that said nobody had ever survived a passenger jet crash into the sea . Interested to hear if anybody knows different . Hudson was mentioned , if it had been sea not river outcome would have been different . Does this make all life jackets redundant anyway ?
I thought there were some survivors from one within swimming distance of a beach 
mycroft said:
I recall watching a TV programme about air crash investigation that said nobody had ever survived a passenger jet crash into the sea . Interested to hear if anybody knows different . Hudson was mentioned , if it had been sea not river outcome would have been different . Does this make all life jackets redundant anyway ?
Chances are one wing will dip, dig in and the plane will cartwheel into oblivion breaking up in the process. A life jacket or raft is probably the least of your worries!!!WinstonWolf said:
I thought there were some survivors from one within swimming distance of a beach
Yup this one in the 90s https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines...
Ayahuasca said:
The process would be very different.
Life jacket - whilst seated, remove from under seat, fit it, forget about it until after you leave the aircraft. Both hands are available to help yourself and others.
Cushion - stand up, wrestle cushion up, exactly where you stand to do this is not clear, drag bulky cushion to exit. Your hands are not free because they are holding the cusion. Without using your hands, exit the aircraft.
They tell you never to inflate your life jacket inside the aircraft for a reason - an inflated jacket will impede your exit. A cushion will too, but at least with the jacket your hands are free.
You don't have to wrestle free a cushion, you simply avoid panicking while everyone else is and ripping the plane to pieces to get their's and then mug them at the exit! They probably won't survive to report you so check if they're wearing a decent watch while you're at it.Life jacket - whilst seated, remove from under seat, fit it, forget about it until after you leave the aircraft. Both hands are available to help yourself and others.
Cushion - stand up, wrestle cushion up, exactly where you stand to do this is not clear, drag bulky cushion to exit. Your hands are not free because they are holding the cusion. Without using your hands, exit the aircraft.
They tell you never to inflate your life jacket inside the aircraft for a reason - an inflated jacket will impede your exit. A cushion will too, but at least with the jacket your hands are free.
mycroft said:
I recall watching a TV programme about air crash investigation that said nobody had ever survived a passenger jet crash into the sea . Interested to hear if anybody knows different . Hudson was mentioned , if it had been sea not river outcome would have been different . Does this make all life jackets redundant anyway ?
A surprising number here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_landing
brman said:
mycroft said:
I recall watching a TV programme about air crash investigation that said nobody had ever survived a passenger jet crash into the sea . Interested to hear if anybody knows different . Hudson was mentioned , if it had been sea not river outcome would have been different . Does this make all life jackets redundant anyway ?
A surprising number here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_landing
The lifejackets supplied are crap anyway, no spray hood or crotch strap so you're unlikely to last long in one in anything like a decent sea.
In comparison my sailing lifejacket has a pair of thigh straps, a spray hood, an automatic light which sits higher in the water, SOLAS tape, a line cutter in case of entrapment, an automatic AIS beacon (admittedly less useful in an aircraft crash), a pocket containing a satellite PLB etc.
In comparison my sailing lifejacket has a pair of thigh straps, a spray hood, an automatic light which sits higher in the water, SOLAS tape, a line cutter in case of entrapment, an automatic AIS beacon (admittedly less useful in an aircraft crash), a pocket containing a satellite PLB etc.
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