What high risk/high return things are you invested in
Discussion
Hi all,
What high risk investments do people have? I'm looking for something interesting to take a punt on.
For example I'm talking about things like www.propertymoose.co.uk or even more risky would be something on https://www.crowdcube.com/
I'm not talking about individual stock selection though, that's been covered in other threads.
What high risk investments do people have? I'm looking for something interesting to take a punt on.
For example I'm talking about things like www.propertymoose.co.uk or even more risky would be something on https://www.crowdcube.com/
I'm not talking about individual stock selection though, that's been covered in other threads.
Crowdfunders are beginning to learn that most of their investments are worth zero as they cannot sell them. There is a reason why all serious investors demand an exit plan at a set stage in the future and that is so that they can cash in on their returns. I very much suspect that the majority of crowdfunding deals will transpire to just be money gifted to a firm that had a glossy brochure.
The reason why crowdfunding is high risk is because it is mostly rubbish companies and rubbish analysts but top notch marketers looking to spank niaive retail monkey in a low regulatory environment.
Over the last couple of years I've been approached by a couple of them looking for me to source them both deals and investors and I have to say that I wouldn't touch this industry with a barge pole. It's just a traditional off exchange investment scam that has been glammed up and put online to spank the modern investor who has a beard and his granddad's trousers.
Propertymoose just seems to be a tool to convert retail cash into an asset that can be consistently milked for fees and then dumped after an incredibly short period of time and replaced with another to do the same with. It looks like a massive 'churn' model. Again, a common wheeze to extract huge fees for no market exposure. I know nothing about them but just the set up alone makes me suspect that no one will see the returns being quoted.
The reason why crowdfunding is high risk is because it is mostly rubbish companies and rubbish analysts but top notch marketers looking to spank niaive retail monkey in a low regulatory environment.
Over the last couple of years I've been approached by a couple of them looking for me to source them both deals and investors and I have to say that I wouldn't touch this industry with a barge pole. It's just a traditional off exchange investment scam that has been glammed up and put online to spank the modern investor who has a beard and his granddad's trousers.
Propertymoose just seems to be a tool to convert retail cash into an asset that can be consistently milked for fees and then dumped after an incredibly short period of time and replaced with another to do the same with. It looks like a massive 'churn' model. Again, a common wheeze to extract huge fees for no market exposure. I know nothing about them but just the set up alone makes me suspect that no one will see the returns being quoted.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Thursday 10th March 08:13
https://www.crowdcube.com/#riskWarningModal
It even states in its risk warning that you won't ever get your money back.
Their marketing only ever focuses on showing off hoe much money has gone in. Never any mention of a single penny coming back out.
My general sentiment over this rebranding of an old wheeze is that you will get a far, far higher return on your money by just giving it to someone you like for no reason and with no expectation, just give it to them.
It even states in its risk warning that you won't ever get your money back.
Their marketing only ever focuses on showing off hoe much money has gone in. Never any mention of a single penny coming back out.
My general sentiment over this rebranding of an old wheeze is that you will get a far, far higher return on your money by just giving it to someone you like for no reason and with no expectation, just give it to them.
The problem when looking for "high return" is that risks tend to rise much faster than the returns!
Risk has two elements,
At the end of the day if high returns were easy to get we'd all be doing it!
Risk has two elements,
- The probability of things going wrong, and
- The scale of the loss if they go wrong.
- If you invest £10 in a company's shares you can only ever lose £10 but you might make £1,000
- If you invest £10 in a company's loans you might still lose your £10 (perhaps less likely) but will never make more than the interest rate. And the value of your initial investment will be eroded by inflation.
- Cash
- Government fixed interest (gilts)
- Corporate fixed interest (bonds)
- Shares - UK
- Shares - European
- Shares - North America
- Shares - Far East
- Shares - sector. i.e. banks/insurance/energy/commodities/consumer
- Property
- etc
At the end of the day if high returns were easy to get we'd all be doing it!
Salgar said:
I'm talking about things like www.propertymoose.co.uk or even more risky would be something on https://www.crowdcube.com/
Run Forrest, run.Salgar said:
Apologies if it wasn't clear, I'm well diversified, I was talking about taking a large risk with a small portion of wealth, I was trying to avoid a thread full of the same financial advice as usual.
Better giving it away than wasting it financing monkey fees etc. There's no actual mechanism to get your money back out of this whole crowd funding wheeze. In it's defence I don't think it is deliberate it's just that a whole new breed of financial chaps think they've stumbled into some entirely new and exciting concept when it's not new at all and as such they haven't yet considered the genuine issue of getting investors money out but rather fob off with weak mumblings about floatations, which even if they ever happened would be so far down the road that these crowd investors would have been specifically diluted out to nothing anyway.As Ozzie mentioned, the issue with 'high risk' is that by the time you've got an investment which all the smart and cheap money has turned down so it's left to the retail market to fund the level of risk is magnitudes out of line with the potential return.
To the o/p's question, I have done one thing that might fit that category and since this is PH after all, it's my 308. Bought for relatively little 16 years ago and now worth considerably more, ongoing costs included.
It certainly wasn't purchased as a pure investment, but without doubt I had my mind on long term values at the time. High risk for the obvious reasons and the boat has now gone on them so to repeat, you'd have to look at something else languishing in the bottom third of the curve.
It certainly wasn't purchased as a pure investment, but without doubt I had my mind on long term values at the time. High risk for the obvious reasons and the boat has now gone on them so to repeat, you'd have to look at something else languishing in the bottom third of the curve.
I'm not currently invested in anything I consider high risk.
I agree completely with the previous comments on the outfits that milk and churn.
I do however quite often take 1 or 2% contrarian punts on sectors or single country funds.
Basically I'll look for something that I consider out of favour, beaten down and with a decent chance of making 10 - 15%.
There has to a good reason or scenario under whichthis country or sector can recover before I enter.
I also need to understand why it is currently in the toilet.
So if one where to look at Latin America or Argentina, an easy one to understand, the President in an effort to generate taxes put an export tax (yes export tax) on beef products like corned beef. Completely fxxcked the countries exports as the beef people started to grow soy. Chance of recovery not good.
Banks and finance in the US could prosper with a Republican President because of less selective attacks. But of course some companies like Goldmans are very heavy democrat supporters. So that can get a little complex. (controls lose the vindictive angle with GOP)
So while I will plonk my hard earned money on a few high return things, I try to make sure I limit the risk by trying to understand why stuff happens.
I also tend to treat these funds as I would an individual share, I have a target sell price.
I agree completely with the previous comments on the outfits that milk and churn.
I do however quite often take 1 or 2% contrarian punts on sectors or single country funds.
Basically I'll look for something that I consider out of favour, beaten down and with a decent chance of making 10 - 15%.
There has to a good reason or scenario under whichthis country or sector can recover before I enter.
I also need to understand why it is currently in the toilet.
So if one where to look at Latin America or Argentina, an easy one to understand, the President in an effort to generate taxes put an export tax (yes export tax) on beef products like corned beef. Completely fxxcked the countries exports as the beef people started to grow soy. Chance of recovery not good.
Banks and finance in the US could prosper with a Republican President because of less selective attacks. But of course some companies like Goldmans are very heavy democrat supporters. So that can get a little complex. (controls lose the vindictive angle with GOP)
So while I will plonk my hard earned money on a few high return things, I try to make sure I limit the risk by trying to understand why stuff happens.
I also tend to treat these funds as I would an individual share, I have a target sell price.
I converted a loan to equity in a relative's business quite a few years ago. Initially quite a small amount of capital was at risk. Considerably more is at risk now, which is nice. The business is a niche, high-end sporting equipment firm. It's well established in its sector. The gambit is to try to use its brand for a wider range of products. May take a few years yet, but then, Rodney me old son, then ...
http://www.rsjsportscars.co.uk/admin/Images/galler...
http://www.rsjsportscars.co.uk/showroom_details.ph...
Probably go up in value, high risk and I'm not talking about the 500bhp
this is PH......
http://www.rsjsportscars.co.uk/showroom_details.ph...
Probably go up in value, high risk and I'm not talking about the 500bhp
this is PH......
I never got round to it, but I always fancied a punt on a case of Chateau Lafite Rothschild... when I first looked into this in around 2010 you could pick up a case en-premeur for about £1,200... when I looked again around 2013 it was £3,600 if memory serves.
The way I figured it, was that if it all went tits up with regards to price in 15-20 years, at least you'd have some pretty good plonk to enjoy!
http://www.bbr.com/fine-wine/investment
The way I figured it, was that if it all went tits up with regards to price in 15-20 years, at least you'd have some pretty good plonk to enjoy!
http://www.bbr.com/fine-wine/investment
Behemoth said:
IntentionallyBlank said:
in around 2010 you could pick up a case en-premeur for about £1,200
That'll be en primeur. Before opening your expensive plonk, you'd better learn some wine stuff first, otherwise you may as well stick to Lidl's bottom shelf 
BoRED S2upid said:
DonkeyApple said:
My general sentiment over this rebranding of an old wheeze is that you will get a far, far higher return on your money by just giving it to someone you like for no reason and with no expectation, just give it to them.
I pretty much view fund managers like this. However, there are plenty of very good ones and what is at risk is generally performance. Unlike with crowdfunding where, in essence, 100% of what you invest is gone the moment you send it.
The better comparison would be Cysec regulated binary broker.
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