FlyDubai 737-800 down in Russia

FlyDubai 737-800 down in Russia

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Discussion

Honeywell

1,374 posts

98 months

Sunday 20th March 2016
quotequote all
"The 245knt vertical descent speed from an altitude of 3500ft into the tarmac suggests otherwise, though. That's not a stall."


It suggests to me a stall and departure from controlled flight from a mishandled go around.

pushthebutton

1,097 posts

182 months

Sunday 20th March 2016
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rs4al said:
pushthebutton said:
If I had to recall the number of times the autothrottle dropped out on me I'd lose count after running out of fingers and toes. Such issues are relatively common and dealt with as a matter of course but, if they're not, you read about it for years to come.
Interesting, on what types did you get the A/T failing on you. 2000 hrs on the 738 and not one failure for me.
300/400/500/800.

It's more dropping out than failing on the Classics. Most of the time it re-engaged and was due to gusty weather, but occasionally it didn't. I've had the left RAD ALT failure on the 800 before it was infamous but, you're right, the 800 was more reliable.

rs4al

930 posts

165 months

Sunday 20th March 2016
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Ahh, the classics, that explains it ! Sad accident and rip to the crew and pax.

Personally I feel the continual erosion of manual flying skills by dictat is not good, especially when flying the 73 family but it is getting so busy out there sometimes it's difficult to keep the practice up....

Escapegoat

5,135 posts

135 months

Tuesday 22nd March 2016
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Pennyroyal Tea said:
IanUAE said:
That is my local budget airline and have flown them quite a lot to Qatar and Oman. It will be interesting to see what is reported in the local press.
Nothing, I imagine...
Hmmm... Does the FlyDubai pilot's workload look as worrisome as RT makes it sound?

See here: https://www.rt.com/news/336514-flydubai-pilots-fat...

Chuck328

1,581 posts

167 months

Tuesday 22nd March 2016
quotequote all
Escapegoat said:
Hmmm... Does the FlyDubai pilot's workload look as worrisome as RT makes it sound?

See here: https://www.rt.com/news/336514-flydubai-pilots-fat...
Yes, that's a pretty brutal roster. We are not even into the (traditionally) busier summer months. I'm flying 65 hours this month with 13 days off.

Honeywell

1,374 posts

98 months

Wednesday 23rd March 2016
quotequote all
That roster is a killer. Nobody can work like that in this job and keep the necessary level of sharpness.

The Middke East carriers are awful and gave a huge fatigue problem they are covering up.

Crumpet

3,894 posts

180 months

Wednesday 23rd March 2016
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In the past I've worked stupidly long flying days for days on end (all within the rules) and when I've looked over the flight paperwork the following day it's been absolutely littered with mistakes! Fatigue is so dangerous in aviation (obviously I don't mean bad paperwork will kill you but the other mistakes might).

But how on earth do you live a normal life with that roster?! You must get home, go to bed, get up and repeat. And then on your days off you spend them in bed recovering. I'll stick with my two weeks on, two weeks off!


red_slr

17,234 posts

189 months

Wednesday 23rd March 2016
quotequote all
Try running a small business up at the crack, home for 7pm, eat something, coma and repeat - 6 days a week, sometimes 7, 50 weeks of the year.

Crumpet

3,894 posts

180 months

Wednesday 23rd March 2016
quotequote all
red_slr said:
Try running a small business up at the crack, home for 7pm, eat something, coma and repeat - 6 days a week, sometimes 7, 50 weeks of the year.
Oh I know there are people who work far harder than pilots and I also wonder how they manage to lead a normal life. I know people who are out the door at 7 and don't get back until 9 at night, but they're generally not in a position where mistakes could cost other people their lives.

JuniorD

8,626 posts

223 months

Wednesday 23rd March 2016
quotequote all
red_slr said:
Try running a small business up at the crack, home for 7pm, eat something, coma and repeat - 6 days a week, sometimes 7, 50 weeks of the year.
Clearly very demanding, but it probably wouldn't be hyper critical if you did start succumbing to the effects of fatigue during the working day. Plus you probably do have the choice to simply stop if absolutely necessary. And you probably do get to fall asleep during teh hours of darkness. But when you start feeling dopey in the middle of the night, with your eyes getting blurry and your mental faculties closing down, and faced with very challenging conditions that are dead set against you, you really don't want to be the person in charge of an aircraft.

mebe

292 posts

143 months

Wednesday 23rd March 2016
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red_slr said:
Try running a small business up at the crack, home for 7pm, eat something, coma and repeat - 6 days a week, sometimes 7, 50 weeks of the year.
There should be an award for this type of post. The "Grade A Challenge Cup"?

Shotgun Jon

246 posts

137 months

Wednesday 23rd March 2016
quotequote all
mebe said:
red_slr said:
Try running a small business up at the crack, home for 7pm, eat something, coma and repeat - 6 days a week, sometimes 7, 50 weeks of the year.
There should be an award for this type of post. The "Grade A Challenge Cup"?
My thoughts exactly.

Selling homemade fridge magnets on eBay is slightly different to operating a modern sophisticated airliner with 150 pax onboard.

rs4al

930 posts

165 months

Thursday 24th March 2016
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red_slr said:
Try running a small business up at the crack, home for 7pm, eat something, coma and repeat - 6 days a week, sometimes 7, 50 weeks of the year.
Ahh diddums, at least you have some control over when you work ! And your office isn't at 8000' (cabin altitude), although the views do make up for it...

J4CKO

41,558 posts

200 months

Thursday 24th March 2016
quotequote all
rs4al said:
red_slr said:
Try running a small business up at the crack, home for 7pm, eat something, coma and repeat - 6 days a week, sometimes 7, 50 weeks of the year.
Ahh diddums, at least you have some control over when you work ! And your office isn't at 8000' (cabin altitude), although the views do make up for it...
That is a good point, I know what I feel like after a long haul flight, I guess pilots and cabin crew must get used to it to a certain extent but the pressure, jet lag and being away from home must be difficult, especially as you get older.

red_slr

17,234 posts

189 months

Thursday 24th March 2016
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Perhaps but they say you are more likely to be killed on your way to the airport... which kind of figures.


Talksteer

4,866 posts

233 months

Thursday 24th March 2016
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red_slr said:
Perhaps but they say you are more likely to be killed on your way to the airport... which kind of figures.
Not necessarily true, aviation tends to quote death per mile metric where aircraft easily win because they go at 20 times the speed of a car and you can easily get further on a single flight than you would drive in a year.

On a per journey basis they are not too different.

That said in 2015 nobody flying on a civil airliner died in an accident, the two crashes that did happen were murder/terrorism.

Katzenjammer

1,085 posts

178 months

Thursday 24th March 2016
quotequote all
Talksteer said:
Not necessarily true, aviation tends to quote death per mile metric where aircraft easily win because they go at 20 times the speed of a car and you can easily get further on a single flight than you would drive in a year.

On a per journey basis they are not too different.

That said in 2015 nobody flying on a civil airliner died in an accident, the two crashes that did happen were murder/terrorism.
TransAsia ATR crash was in early 2015

The Moose

22,847 posts

209 months

Thursday 24th March 2016
quotequote all
Katzenjammer said:
Talksteer said:
Not necessarily true, aviation tends to quote death per mile metric where aircraft easily win because they go at 20 times the speed of a car and you can easily get further on a single flight than you would drive in a year.

On a per journey basis they are not too different.

That said in 2015 nobody flying on a civil airliner died in an accident, the two crashes that did happen were murder/terrorism.
TransAsia ATR crash was in early 2015
I'm afraid I believe there was one or two others also...

Talksteer

4,866 posts

233 months

Thursday 24th March 2016
quotequote all
The Moose said:
Katzenjammer said:
Talksteer said:
Not necessarily true, aviation tends to quote death per mile metric where aircraft easily win because they go at 20 times the speed of a car and you can easily get further on a single flight than you would drive in a year.

On a per journey basis they are not too different.

That said in 2015 nobody flying on a civil airliner died in an accident, the two crashes that did happen were murder/terrorism.
TransAsia ATR crash was in early 2015
I'm afraid I believe there was one or two others also...
Should have been more specific, no civil jet liners crashed in 2015.

pushthebutton

1,097 posts

182 months

Friday 25th March 2016
quotequote all
https://www.rt.com/news/337128-emirates-pilots-fat...

I like that it's getting some attention. The trouble with any articles like this is that you could probably survey any UK airline and get enough similar quotes from angry employees.

However, this:

Article said:
Speaking to RT, a former Emirates pilot also claimed that a lack of proper monitoring by the aviation authority of Dubai exacerbates the fatigue problem.

“The aviation authority in the UAE is called General Civil Aviation Authority (GCAA) and it cannot under the government of Dubai [ensure] independent [monitoring] of these airlines,” he said.

Pilots have no higher authority to complain to and any reports that do get out are usually quickly “covered up,” according to the former pilot, who stressed that such misconduct would be impossible with European or US airlines, where independent aviation watchdogs monitor procedures.

The pilot currently employed by Emirates explained that the aviation authority is controlled by the same people who are in charge of the airline. Specifically, he pointed out that the GCAA is chaired by the same person who is the CEO of Emirates Airline & Group – Sheikh Ahmed Bin Saeed Al Maktoum.
is 'interesting'. Hypothetically, I should imagine that if a Flight Operations Safety Inspector went to the head of the XCAA, or his immediate heads of department, with genuine concerns and ideas to improve the safety culture and fatigue reporting etc, they could be dismissed without any impartiality.