The CAA have officially killed UK airshows
Discussion
mph1977 said:
Other than 2011 Reno air races, 2010 Lauf-lillinghauf , Rammstein etc ... it's somewhat selective to suggest that it;s a 1:50 year ( and no doubt caliming a 1 :thousands figure in terms of events and 1:10s of thousands per individual displays) based solely on the UK figure .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_air_show_acc...
If we are trying to judge the effectiveness of UK regulations foreign incidents are totally irrelevant. In fact the Ramstein accident occurred during a manoeuvre the team had been banned from carrying out at UK displays.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_air_show_acc...
The main issue as Shoreham was a fast jet being piloted by someone who only had 12 hours experience on it. Recipe for disaster really.
The cynic in me thinks this is a tactic from the CAA to draw attention away from itself as it f
ked up giving the pilot a display authorisation in the first place.
The cynic in me thinks this is a tactic from the CAA to draw attention away from itself as it f
ked up giving the pilot a display authorisation in the first place.JustSomeBloke said:
The main issue as Shoreham was a fast jet being piloted by someone who only had 12 hours experience on it. Recipe for disaster really.
The cynic in me thinks this is a tactic from the CAA to draw attention away from itself as it fked up giving the pilot a display authorisation in the first place.
He had 40 hours on type, and we don't know the cause of the accident yet. He was also a very experienced pilot in general so it's unlikely a relative lack of experience on type would cause a problem in itself, though if a separate problem arose it might make it more difficult for him to deal with it.The cynic in me thinks this is a tactic from the CAA to draw attention away from itself as it f
ked up giving the pilot a display authorisation in the first place.Dr Jekyll said:
JustSomeBloke said:
The main issue as Shoreham was a fast jet being piloted by someone who only had 12 hours experience on it. Recipe for disaster really.
The cynic in me thinks this is a tactic from the CAA to draw attention away from itself as it fked up giving the pilot a display authorisation in the first place.
He had 40 hours on type, and we don't know the cause of the accident yet. He was also a very experienced pilot in general so it's unlikely a relative lack of experience on type would cause a problem in itself, though if a separate problem arose it might make it more difficult for him to deal with it.The cynic in me thinks this is a tactic from the CAA to draw attention away from itself as it f
ked up giving the pilot a display authorisation in the first place.However the changes would appear to be drawing attention away from the CAAs failures.
Chrisgr31 said:
It was the Gnat pilot at Carfest who had limited flying hours wasn't it?
However the changes would appear to be drawing attention away from the CAAs failures.
I think the Carfest pilot had a decent number of hours on the Gnat altogether, but only about 12 hours flying anything in the previous year. Which would be pretty marginal for flying a Cessna for a circuit and bumps let alone low level aerobatics in a swept wing jet.However the changes would appear to be drawing attention away from the CAAs failures.
In the Gnat case the immediate cause of the crash was mishandling the recover when the nose dropped unexpectedly so lack of currency was probably a factor.
HoHoHo said:
clarkey said:
I remember going to White Waltham in the late 70s, things have changed quite a lot
Seen that photo a few times now, wish I'd actually been there!It then went on to do a few hovering manoeuvres. Bloody awesome things.
Dr Jekyll said:
JustSomeBloke said:
The main issue as Shoreham was a fast jet being piloted by someone who only had 12 hours experience on it. Recipe for disaster really.
The cynic in me thinks this is a tactic from the CAA to draw attention away from itself as it fked up giving the pilot a display authorisation in the first place.
He had 40 hours on type, and we don't know the cause of the accident yet. He was also a very experienced pilot in general so it's unlikely a relative lack of experience on type would cause a problem in itself, though if a separate problem arose it might make it more difficult for him to deal with it.The cynic in me thinks this is a tactic from the CAA to draw attention away from itself as it f
ked up giving the pilot a display authorisation in the first place.Edited by aeropilot on Friday 10th June 09:23
aeropilot said:
Dr Jekyll said:
JustSomeBloke said:
The main issue as Shoreham was a fast jet being piloted by someone who only had 12 hours experience on it. Recipe for disaster really.
The cynic in me thinks this is a tactic from the CAA to draw attention away from itself as it fked up giving the pilot a display authorisation in the first place.
He had 40 hours on type, and we don't know the cause of the accident yet. He was also a very experienced pilot in general so it's unlikely a relative lack of experience on type would cause a problem in itself, though if a separate problem arose it might make it more difficult for him to deal with it.The cynic in me thinks this is a tactic from the CAA to draw attention away from itself as it f
ked up giving the pilot a display authorisation in the first place.but split second mistakes by humans are always possible no matter the experience levels, it's a human trait, no matter how much red tape is in place.....but still, 40 hrs on type for a 'fast jet' display is far from ideal IMHO (unless pilot is ex-ETPS or similar such like experience level)
Edited by aeropilot on Friday 10th June 09:23
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKo3DuP-NOg
(skip to 1:15)
Dr Jekyll said:
mph1977 said:
Other than 2011 Reno air races, 2010 Lauf-lillinghauf , Rammstein etc ... it's somewhat selective to suggest that it;s a 1:50 year ( and no doubt caliming a 1 :thousands figure in terms of events and 1:10s of thousands per individual displays) based solely on the UK figure .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_air_show_acc...
If we are trying to judge the effectiveness of UK regulations foreign incidents are totally irrelevant. In fact the Ramstein accident occurred during a manoeuvre the team had been banned from carrying out at UK displays.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_air_show_acc...
mph1977 said:
Dr Jekyll said:
mph1977 said:
Other than 2011 Reno air races, 2010 Lauf-lillinghauf , Rammstein etc ... it's somewhat selective to suggest that it;s a 1:50 year ( and no doubt caliming a 1 :thousands figure in terms of events and 1:10s of thousands per individual displays) based solely on the UK figure .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_air_show_acc...
If we are trying to judge the effectiveness of UK regulations foreign incidents are totally irrelevant. In fact the Ramstein accident occurred during a manoeuvre the team had been banned from carrying out at UK displays.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_air_show_acc...
aeropilot said:
mph1977 said:
Dr Jekyll said:
mph1977 said:
Other than 2011 Reno air races, 2010 Lauf-lillinghauf , Rammstein etc ... it's somewhat selective to suggest that it;s a 1:50 year ( and no doubt caliming a 1 :thousands figure in terms of events and 1:10s of thousands per individual displays) based solely on the UK figure .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_air_show_acc...
If we are trying to judge the effectiveness of UK regulations foreign incidents are totally irrelevant. In fact the Ramstein accident occurred during a manoeuvre the team had been banned from carrying out at UK displays.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_air_show_acc...
mph1977 said:
aeropilot said:
mph1977 said:
Dr Jekyll said:
mph1977 said:
Other than 2011 Reno air races, 2010 Lauf-lillinghauf , Rammstein etc ... it's somewhat selective to suggest that it;s a 1:50 year ( and no doubt caliming a 1 :thousands figure in terms of events and 1:10s of thousands per individual displays) based solely on the UK figure .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_air_show_acc...
If we are trying to judge the effectiveness of UK regulations foreign incidents are totally irrelevant. In fact the Ramstein accident occurred during a manoeuvre the team had been banned from carrying out at UK displays.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_air_show_acc...
aeropilot said:
He was also an ex-front line FJ pilot (ex-Harrier IIRC) so certainly more basic jet experience than the Gnat pilot, but split second mistakes by humans are always possible no matter the experience levels, it's a human trait, no matter how much red tape is in place.....but still, 40 hrs on type for a 'fast jet' display is far from ideal IMHO (unless pilot is ex-ETPS or similar such like experience level)
Ahh yes. Apologies, got him confused with the Gnat pilot.Edited by aeropilot on Friday 10th June 09:23
Boatbuoy said:
Indeed, even current military pilots get it wrong occasionally:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKo3DuP-NOg
(skip to 1:15)
The Thunderbirds crash in 2003 was not only a current military pilot but a full time display pilot and he got it wrong. In fact the result (not pulling out of a vertical dive) was very similar to the Shoreham crash but fortunately there was nobody underneath.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKo3DuP-NOg
(skip to 1:15)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUNhg9y2i6o
aeropilot said:
You really don't have a clue do you.
Hobby......are you serious. There's a significant amount of people that are trying to earn a living from it FFS.
And as for investigation, read the AAIB report on the Gnat crash and see where the very organisation that are making that 'investigation' you put so much 'faith' sit in events.
Yes, it's effectively a hobby. It may have grown significantly so that many people are now part-dependent on it for work/income but it's not essential to life. Hobby......are you serious. There's a significant amount of people that are trying to earn a living from it FFS.
And as for investigation, read the AAIB report on the Gnat crash and see where the very organisation that are making that 'investigation' you put so much 'faith' sit in events.
mph1977 said:
creamie ? is that the guys (and girls) whose first tour after qualifying is to get their instructor quals ?
Indeed Creamie as in 'Creamed Off' after Advanced Flying Training at Valley.I can't remember whether he went on to be a Jet Provost QFI or whether he became a Hawk QFI.
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