Train derailed automatically Paddington
Discussion
legzr1 said:
There's an interesting analogy right there - steam on private lines is limited to what? 25mph? On a few miles of simple track?
Do you think they'd find driving from Edinburgh to Birmingham at varying speeds up to and including 125mph on various types of signalling and block working just as easy?
Bit like a PPL finding it easy compared to a commercial London - Brisbane flight
Well the drivers of steam trains if they are anything like the calibre of driver West coast railways employs, aren't worth a wDo you think they'd find driving from Edinburgh to Birmingham at varying speeds up to and including 125mph on various types of signalling and block working just as easy?
Bit like a PPL finding it easy compared to a commercial London - Brisbane flight
k! rs1952 said:
blueg33 said:
Most of the trains are so old I cant see that there will be many computers on board
Unfortunately statements like that suggest a lack of understanding of the subject.There are steam locomotives running on the main line with all sorts of retro-fitted electrical gubbins.
Stedman said:
My mate - who is a commercial pilot - asked me how many signals I 'sign', it's between 1000-1300. He simply didn't believe me that I know exactly what every single one does, why it does it, what it means etc etc. Every single one! And that's just part of the job.
Every signal - what it means, where it can take you, where it can't, which signalbox / panel / workstation controls it, whether or not you can pass it at danger under your own authority, anticipating the possibility of being wrong routed and how to react in the event of it happening, which ones are multi-SPAD signals etc... there are so many variables. Add in all the other aspects of route knowledge and there's far more to it than some people imagine. I totted up the signal count on my route card recently and it's similar to yours Stedman, it's amazing just how much knowledge we have to retain. I've tried explaining it all to friends outside the railway but some just can't get their heads around it - I liken it to them having to know every inch of their daily commutes intimately, being tested on that knowledge and signing a legal document stating you are competent over the route, but for some reason it still doesn't sink in... ''don't you just follow the signals and speed up if they're green..?'' is the usual reply. I think I need some new friends...
As for how hard / easy it is to actually drive a train, well I believe there is still some skill involved despite what some folk say, and using your route knowledge often helps when it comes to working heavy trains on certain gradients. I sign the 1 in 37 Lickey incline and regularly work the 3,300 ton High Output Ballast Cleaner, but I've yet to combine to two. Even some of the gentler gradients on the network require a careful approach to train handling, particularly where there are changes in the gradient profile when working a long, heavy train to avoid any snatching.
By the way - one of our middle managers is an ex-commercial pilot!
Edited by P5BNij on Friday 24th June 12:39
Whats the career span for a commercial pilot? I started my footplate career straight from school at 16 and was driving by 22, this year is my 38th anniversary and I'm 54 so potentially another 13 years if I worked to my state pension age. Of cause I'll go sooner as I've had enough and shift work is a know life shortener. Still I could never be a pilot prefer to keep my feet on the ground!
W124Bob said:
Whats the career span for a commercial pilot? I started my footplate career straight from school at 16 and was driving by 22, this year is my 38th anniversary and I'm 54 so potentially another 13 years if I worked to my state pension age. Of cause I'll go sooner as I've had enough and shift work is a know life shortener. Still I could never be a pilot prefer to keep my feet on the ground!
I don't know Bob but if I see him I'll ask - having said that it's unlikely our paths will ever cross, I've been with the company ten years and he's only ever spoken to me twice!P5BNij said:
Every signal - what it means, where it can take you, where it can't, which signalbox / panel / workstation controls it, whether or not you can pass it at danger under your own authority, anticipating the possibility of being wrong routed and how to react in the event of it happening, which ones are multi-SPAD signals etc... there are so many variables. Add in all the other aspects of route knowledge and there's far more to it than some people imagine. I totted up the signal count on my route card recently and it's similar to yours Stedman, it's amazing just how much knowledge we have to retain. I've tried explaining it all to friends outside the railway but some just can't get their heads around it - I liken it to them having to know every inch of their daily commutes intimately, being tested on that knowledge and signing a legal document stating you are competent over the route, but for some reason it still doesn't sink in... ''don't you just follow the signals and speed up if they're green..?'' is the usual reply. I think I need some new friends...
As for how hard / easy it is to actually drive a train, well I believe there is still some skill involved despite what some folk say, and using your route knowledge often helps when it comes to working heavy trains on certain gradients. I sign the 1 in 37 Lickey incline and regularly work the 3,300 ton High Output Ballast Cleaner, but I've yet to combine to two. Even some of the gentler gradients on the network require a careful approach to train handling, particularly where there are changes in the gradient profile when working a long, heavy train to avoid any snatching.
By the way - one of our middle managers is an ex-commercial pilot!
Hi,As for how hard / easy it is to actually drive a train, well I believe there is still some skill involved despite what some folk say, and using your route knowledge often helps when it comes to working heavy trains on certain gradients. I sign the 1 in 37 Lickey incline and regularly work the 3,300 ton High Output Ballast Cleaner, but I've yet to combine to two. Even some of the gentler gradients on the network require a careful approach to train handling, particularly where there are changes in the gradient profile when working a long, heavy train to avoid any snatching.
By the way - one of our middle managers is an ex-commercial pilot!
Edited by P5BNij on Friday 24th June 12:39
just out of interest, what do you pull that with?.
P5BNij said:
Every signal - what it means, where it can take you, where it can't, which signalbox / panel / workstation controls it, whether or not you can pass it at danger under your own authority, anticipating the possibility of being wrong routed and how to react in the event of it happening, which ones are multi-SPAD signals etc... there are so many variables. Add in all the other aspects of route knowledge and there's far more to it than some people imagine. I totted up the signal count on my route card recently and it's similar to yours Stedman, it's amazing just how much knowledge we have to retain. I've tried explaining it all to friends outside the railway but some just can't get their heads around it - I liken it to them having to know every inch of their daily commutes intimately, being tested on that knowledge and signing a legal document stating you are competent over the route, but for some reason it still doesn't sink in... ''don't you just follow the signals and speed up if they're green..?'' is the usual reply. I think I need some new friends...
As for how hard / easy it is to actually drive a train, well I believe there is still some skill involved despite what some folk say, and using your route knowledge often helps when it comes to working heavy trains on certain gradients. I sign the 1 in 37 Lickey incline and regularly work the 3,300 ton High Output Ballast Cleaner, but I've yet to combine to two. Even some of the gentler gradients on the network require a careful approach to train handling, particularly where there are changes in the gradient profile when working a long, heavy train to avoid any snatching.
By the way - one of our middle managers is an ex-commercial pilot!
Explaining to someone that green is sometimes wrong is difficult As for how hard / easy it is to actually drive a train, well I believe there is still some skill involved despite what some folk say, and using your route knowledge often helps when it comes to working heavy trains on certain gradients. I sign the 1 in 37 Lickey incline and regularly work the 3,300 ton High Output Ballast Cleaner, but I've yet to combine to two. Even some of the gentler gradients on the network require a careful approach to train handling, particularly where there are changes in the gradient profile when working a long, heavy train to avoid any snatching.
By the way - one of our middle managers is an ex-commercial pilot!
Edited by P5BNij on Friday 24th June 12:39
Or getting a set moving in leaf fall....and to slow down too.RemyMartin said:
Well the drivers of steam trains if they are anything like the calibre of driver West coast railways employs, aren't worth a wk!
As you know, you shouldn't tar them all with the same brush and some of them have forgotten more than the combined strength of this whole forum will ever know but, ffs, how many chances do they need?k! Sorry.
It will be a Cl 66 - the HOBC trains go 'top & tailed' onto site with a loco either end where the trains splits in two and does its thing.
To and from the site is all handled by one loco and while it can take an age to get up to speed the 66 does ok.
Been an age since I worked one.
It will be a Cl 66 - the HOBC trains go 'top & tailed' onto site with a loco either end where the trains splits in two and does its thing.
To and from the site is all handled by one loco and while it can take an age to get up to speed the 66 does ok.
Been an age since I worked one.
texaxile said:
P5BNij said:
Every signal - what it means, where it can take you, where it can't, which signalbox / panel / workstation controls it, whether or not you can pass it at danger under your own authority, anticipating the possibility of being wrong routed and how to react in the event of it happening, which ones are multi-SPAD signals etc... there are so many variables. Add in all the other aspects of route knowledge and there's far more to it than some people imagine. I totted up the signal count on my route card recently and it's similar to yours Stedman, it's amazing just how much knowledge we have to retain. I've tried explaining it all to friends outside the railway but some just can't get their heads around it - I liken it to them having to know every inch of their daily commutes intimately, being tested on that knowledge and signing a legal document stating you are competent over the route, but for some reason it still doesn't sink in... ''don't you just follow the signals and speed up if they're green..?'' is the usual reply. I think I need some new friends...
As for how hard / easy it is to actually drive a train, well I believe there is still some skill involved despite what some folk say, and using your route knowledge often helps when it comes to working heavy trains on certain gradients. I sign the 1 in 37 Lickey incline and regularly work the 3,300 ton High Output Ballast Cleaner, but I've yet to combine to two. Even some of the gentler gradients on the network require a careful approach to train handling, particularly where there are changes in the gradient profile when working a long, heavy train to avoid any snatching.
By the way - one of our middle managers is an ex-commercial pilot!
Hi,As for how hard / easy it is to actually drive a train, well I believe there is still some skill involved despite what some folk say, and using your route knowledge often helps when it comes to working heavy trains on certain gradients. I sign the 1 in 37 Lickey incline and regularly work the 3,300 ton High Output Ballast Cleaner, but I've yet to combine to two. Even some of the gentler gradients on the network require a careful approach to train handling, particularly where there are changes in the gradient profile when working a long, heavy train to avoid any snatching.
By the way - one of our middle managers is an ex-commercial pilot!
Edited by P5BNij on Friday 24th June 12:39
just out of interest, what do you pull that with?.
Edited to add - the delays caused previously by only having one loco on it means it has to be double loco'd and double manned at all times. When my rear loco failed to take power a few weeks ago my oppo at the front end struggled to get 20mph going up the gradient to Tring!
Edited by P5BNij on Saturday 25th June 12:16
P5BNij said:
A pair of class 66s, one at each end in 'top & tail' mode. We communicate via back to back radios with the rear driver pushing when required up the gradients. It's a bit of a faff shunting the train together as it's half a mile long (including both locos) and doesn't fit in Willesden yard without breaking it up into three sections, shunting it together involves blocking a busy passenger route (Willesden to Clapham Jcn via Kensington Olympia) as well as a local level crossing. I'm on the same job tonight on the rear loco, with the various shunts and the possibility of having to turn it round via the Acton Wells / Acton Canal Wharf triangle it can take up to an hour and a half to complete the move. Acton Wells is a busy five way junction, the signalman there hates us!
Edited to add - the delays caused previously by only having one loco on it means it has to be double loco'd and double manned at all times. When my rear loco failed to take power a few weeks ago my oppo at the front end struggled to get 20mph going up the gradient to Tring!
So you're the bloke our Norwood drivers hate! Edited to add - the delays caused previously by only having one loco on it means it has to be double loco'd and double manned at all times. When my rear loco failed to take power a few weeks ago my oppo at the front end struggled to get 20mph going up the gradient to Tring!
Edited by P5BNij on Saturday 25th June 12:16
To answer the commercial pilot question retirement age it is 65, provided the other guy in the cockpit is less than that. Otherwise it is 60.
But they are generally £100k or more in debt by the time they have paid for their training, which they have to do before they can (hopefully) get a job. I know two guys who qualified and then couldn't find work so have ended up as a teacher and a mechanic!
But they are generally £100k or more in debt by the time they have paid for their training, which they have to do before they can (hopefully) get a job. I know two guys who qualified and then couldn't find work so have ended up as a teacher and a mechanic!
Interestingly since retirement is no longer complusory I assume pilots could continue, a colleague is 68 this year and still driving fulltime, medical annually which he passed with no issues. Not relevant but his only transport is '75 Kawasaki 750, his BMW R90 failed it's MOT at 250k .
Here you go: http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?... but
FCL.065 Curtailment of privileges of licence holders aged 60 years or more
in commercial air transport
(a) Age 60-64. Aeroplanes and helicopters. The holder of a pilot licence who has
attained the age of 60 years shall not act as a pilot of an aircraft engaged in
commercial air transport except as a member of a multi-pilot crew.
(b) Age 65. Except in the case of a holder of a balloon or sailplane pilot licence, the
holder of a pilot licence who has attained the age of 65 years shall not act as a
pilot of an aircraft engaged in commercial air transport.
(c) Age 70. The holder of a balloon or sailplane pilot licence who has attained the
age of 70 years shall not act as a pilot of a balloon or a sailplane engaged in
commercial air transport.’
Interesting variation, they have a straight cut off at 65. Even though you have two pilots but the 68-year-old train driver is on his (or her) own and I suspect there's probably a higher probability of carnage too (aircraft spending a lot of time flying over ocean while trains are always close to something).
FCL.065 Curtailment of privileges of licence holders aged 60 years or more
in commercial air transport
(a) Age 60-64. Aeroplanes and helicopters. The holder of a pilot licence who has
attained the age of 60 years shall not act as a pilot of an aircraft engaged in
commercial air transport except as a member of a multi-pilot crew.
(b) Age 65. Except in the case of a holder of a balloon or sailplane pilot licence, the
holder of a pilot licence who has attained the age of 65 years shall not act as a
pilot of an aircraft engaged in commercial air transport.
(c) Age 70. The holder of a balloon or sailplane pilot licence who has attained the
age of 70 years shall not act as a pilot of a balloon or a sailplane engaged in
commercial air transport.’
Interesting variation, they have a straight cut off at 65. Even though you have two pilots but the 68-year-old train driver is on his (or her) own and I suspect there's probably a higher probability of carnage too (aircraft spending a lot of time flying over ocean while trains are always close to something).
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