Train derailed automatically Paddington

[Flooble]

legzr1 said:

DSD, AWS, Vigilance and TPWS take care of that.

Fail to react to any and it's full brakes on and screech to a stand - not much use on a plane I expect

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6410611/Pilot-overshoots-Minneapolis-airport-by-150-miles.html

:-)

[legzr1]

Funny that because the railways are being inundated with airline safety protocol such as risk triggered commentary and situational awareness when really all is needed is a DSD pedal in every cockpit

[rs1952]

blueg33 said:

rs1952 said:

blueg33 said:

Most of the trains are so old I cant see that there will be many computers on board

Unfortunately statements like that suggest a lack of understanding of the subject.

There are steam locomotives running on the main line with all sorts of retro-fitted electrical gubbins.

Well the impications earlier were that computers etc are few and far between, how about a helpful response to give people some understanding?

Apologies for sounding a bit blunt,but it was an auto-response to the comment: "Most of the trains are so old I cant see that..."

Many people, perhaos especially on motoring forums, tend to equate age with old fashioned or outdated. Vehicles operated by public transport undertakings, be they road, rail or ar, are built for a much longer working life than a normal car. As an aside, this is why many coach operators put personalised plates on their vehicles, to avoid the fools saying "It's a 1995 coach - I'm not getting on that - it will break down before we get to the end of the road"

The HSTs are 40 years old and have been re-engined and refurbished frequentley over the years. The class 37 and 47 diesels still have examaples in regular service, and date from the early 1960s. When they were built, the only automatic safety system on them was AWS (Automatic warning system) which applied the brakes automatically if a driver passed an amber or red signal without cancelling the warning. Things have moved on since those days, and vehicles running on the main line have to be retro-fitted with more modern up to date systems, otherwise they wouldn't be allowed on the main line.

There are very few people around thse days who still drive a 1977 car in regular day to day driving, and even less who do 50k+ mikes a year in one. Trains, aircraft and coaches are in a completely different ball game.

[P5BNij]

Stedman said:

P5BNij said:

A pair of class 66s, one at each end in 'top & tail' mode. We communicate via back to back radios with the rear driver pushing when required up the gradients. It's a bit of a faff shunting the train together as it's half a mile long (including both locos) and doesn't fit in Willesden yard without breaking it up into three sections, shunting it together involves blocking a busy passenger route (Willesden to Clapham Jcn via Kensington Olympia) as well as a local level crossing. I'm on the same job tonight on the rear loco, with the various shunts and the possibility of having to turn it round via the Acton Wells / Acton Canal Wharf triangle it can take up to an hour and a half to complete the move. Acton Wells is a busy five way junction, the signalman there hates us!

Edited to add - the delays caused previously by only having one loco on it means it has to be double loco'd and double manned at all times. When my rear loco failed to take power a few weeks ago my oppo at the front end struggled to get 20mph going up the gradient to Tring!

Edited by P5BNij on Saturday 25th June 12:16

So you're the bloke our Norwood drivers hate!

I couldn't possibly comment...

Spent last night aboard the HOBC again on the rear loco, armed with copious amounts of tea, a pile of Porsche mags and a rather spiffing 'Brooklands Road Tests' book on GT40s - the hours flew by waiting for the orange army to arrive on site!

(With apologies for continuing to derail the topic).

[P5BNij]

rs1952 said:

blueg33 said:

rs1952 said:

blueg33 said:

Most of the trains are so old I cant see that there will be many computers on board

Unfortunately statements like that suggest a lack of understanding of the subject.

There are steam locomotives running on the main line with all sorts of retro-fitted electrical gubbins.

Well the impications earlier were that computers etc are few and far between, how about a helpful response to give people some understanding?

Apologies for sounding a bit blunt,but it was an auto-response to the comment: "Most of the trains are so old I cant see that..."

Many people, perhaos especially on motoring forums, tend to equate age with old fashioned or outdated. Vehicles operated by public transport undertakings, be they road, rail or ar, are built for a much longer working life than a normal car. As an aside, this is why many coach operators put personalised plates on their vehicles, to avoid the fools saying "It's a 1995 coach - I'm not getting on that - it will break down before we get to the end of the road"

The HSTs are 40 years old and have been re-engined and refurbished frequentley over the years. The class 37 and 47 diesels still have examaples in regular service, and date from the early 1960s. When they were built, the only automatic safety system on them was AWS (Automatic warning system) which applied the brakes automatically if a driver passed an amber or red signal without cancelling the warning. Things have moved on since those days, and vehicles running on the main line have to be retro-fitted with more modern up to date systems, otherwise they wouldn't be allowed on the main line.

There are very few people around thse days who still drive a 1977 car in regular day to day driving, and even less who do 50k+ mikes a year in one. Trains, aircraft and coaches are in a completely different ball game.

Well put - the small fleet of twentytwo production Deltics each covered more than two million miles in their lifetime (1961-1982) with component exchange based maintenance schedules keeping them going. As high speed thoroughbreds they were never destined to have long careers compared to other classes, but some very tight diagramming and well timed ovarhauls made sure the BR Board got their money's worth out of them. There are still some 31s on the network in regular use, a class which was introduced way back in 1957.

[blueg33]

I travel on the GWR HST 125's every week and those plus Pendolinos are my favourite trains. The 125 is pretty dated from a passenger point of view, slam doors, drafty, useless aircon. plug sockets that don't work and wifi speeds akin to 1990's dial up. Do you can see why we may think that other elements are dated.

Some trains are well past use by dates. I get to travel on mk1 Pacers every week too. The train from hell

[RemyMartin]

Pendolinos always smell of Poo.

Pendolino is no class 370!

HSTs are dated and yes the WiFi is pony. But they are 40 years old and are expected to and do go 125mph everyday. They have lasted their service life and then some. You could retrofit plug doors on the mk3 carriages and they would go on for many many more years.

[blueg33]

No. Poo smell is Voyagers. Noisy vibratey portaloo on rails. I dread to think what standard class must be like.

[blueg33]

No. Poo smell is Voyagers. Noisy vibratey portaloo on rails. I dread to think what standard class must be like.

[legzr1]

blueg33 said:

I travel on the GWR HST 125's every week and those plus Pendolinos are my favourite trains. The 125 is pretty dated from a passenger point of view, slam doors, drafty, useless aircon. plug sockets that don't work and wifi speeds akin to 1990's dial up. Do you can see why we may think that other elements are dated.

Some trains are well past use by dates. I get to travel on mk1 Pacers every week too. The train from hell

So now you know different

[blueg33]

legzr1 said:

blueg33 said:

I travel on the GWR HST 125's every week and those plus Pendolinos are my favourite trains. The 125 is pretty dated from a passenger point of view, slam doors, drafty, useless aircon. plug sockets that don't work and wifi speeds akin to 1990's dial up. Do you can see why we may think that other elements are dated.

Some trains are well past use by dates. I get to travel on mk1 Pacers every week too. The train from hell

So now you know different

From a passenger point of view yes I do. I travel on the 3 types mentioned every week and have done for years.

Pendolino problem largely fixed, Voyager problem not fixed.

Pacers designed lifespan was 20 years. And they were built in 1980

Edited by blueg33 on Monday 27th June 06:06

Edited by blueg33 on Monday 27th June 06:17

[rs1952]

blueg33 said:

Pacers designed lifespan was 20 years. And they were built in 1980

There's a rub that lies herein

Passengers don't like Pacers and the railway industry doesn't like 'em either. The reasons why they are still service include the fact that passenger numbers have grown exponentially in recent years, and also that ultimately Whitehall decides what trains get built, and what trains get used where.

0ne of the oddities we have had since privatisation is that Whitehall wields far more control over the railway than it ever did during the period of nationalisation, yet some people think that re-nationalisation is the answer to all the railways ills.

Funny old world innit?

[TommoAE86]

rs1952 said:

The HSTs are 40 years old and have been re-engined and refurbished frequentley over the years. The class 37 and 47 diesels still have examaples in regular service, and date from the early 1960s.

I always enjoy this fact on these 3, I've ridden with all 3 pulling and since have been surprised just how comfortable they are compared to modern stuff. The voyager I went on was vibrating alot, and on others there has been surprising amounts of lurching however I hope it's not too rose-tinted my view, I've been on plenty of 420-438's (sorry too much of a Luddite to know which one) and 158's which were horrific too.

[blueg33]

rs1952 said:

blueg33 said:

Pacers designed lifespan was 20 years. And they were built in 1980

There's a rub that lies herein

Passengers don't like Pacers and the railway industry doesn't like 'em either. The reasons why they are still service include the fact that passenger numbers have grown exponentially in recent years, and also that ultimately Whitehall decides what trains get built, and what trains get used where.

0ne of the oddities we have had since privatisation is that Whitehall wields far more control over the railway than it ever did during the period of nationalisation, yet some people think that re-nationalisation is the answer to all the railways ills.

Funny old world innit?

Yup

and Pacers are still horrid. I assume they were crap when new too.

[tight5]

blueg33 said:

Poo smell is Voyagers. Noisy vibratey portaloo on rails. I dread to think what standard class must be like.

I travel a lot on these at work, never had one smell of poo yet !
(might just be first class gets that)

[blueg33]

tight5 said:

blueg33 said:

Poo smell is Voyagers. Noisy vibratey portaloo on rails. I dread to think what standard class must be like.

I travel a lot on these at work, never had one smell of poo yet !
(might just be first class gets that)

They changed the disinfectant to try and make the trains smell better

[GTO-3R]

Being a Signalling Designer, it's nice to see a bit of chat on the subject

I think it's hard for people outside of the rail industry to comprehend how much is involved in it, with all diciplines. Of course, signalling is by far the most complex

[Stedman]

GTO-3R said:

Being a Signalling Designer, it's nice to see a bit of chat on the subject

I think it's hard for people outside of the rail industry to comprehend how much is involved in it, with all diciplines. Of course, signalling is by far the most complex

So I can blame you about some of the views we have of signals up at London Bridge?

[blueg33]

In some ways it's counterintuitive that operating a vehicle on a fixed route is harder than driving cars on random routes offing other random cars etc

[legzr1]

blueg33 said:

In some ways it's counterintuitive that operating a vehicle on a fixed route is harder than driving cars on random routes offing other random cars etc

....which should be able to stop in the distance they can see to be clear.

Try that at 60mph with 3000+ tonnes or 30 tonnes of people at 125...