Discussion
Unbusy said:
WinstonWolf said:
They had been asked to remain seated by the captain as it was the safest thing to do at that particular moment in time. Imagine if someone popped a door on the fire side... I doubt it was easy, but it was the correct call if there were no injuries.
Safest? Seriously? Correct call? Just so wrong buddy, im staggered you said that.I suspect said Captain will be in the deep doo doo.
As for opening the doors on the starboard side, the Cabin Crew are trained to look first before opening an exit. Its bloody common sense anyway.
Yes, you can still evacuate with the fire engines there. The passengers should have been piling out before they turned up anyway. Just keep out of their way.
Im shocked they didnt evacuate. Totally against all industry protocol.
Have a look at the Chinese B737. That fire started because of a missing washer on a leading edge slat from memory. Thank Heavens there were no casulties.
It might have been a different outcome, but in this particular set of circumstances I would say zero injuries made it a good call.
drdino said:
F*ck me...
I think if I was on board, I'd have been making a bee-line for the emergency exit the second the aircraft came to a stop.
SeeFive said:
Have been in a situation like that, far less severe though.
Etihad Airbus out of Sydney to Abu Dhabi (the f1 liveried one). Engines started and the plane filled up with smoke. We were advised to stay put while,they worked out where the problem was. There was no evacuation, and they tried to restart 3 times with similar smoky effects in the cabin.
We stayed on board while they found the problem and fixed it, started clean and then flew 14 hours to Abu Dhabi. Got off to change planes and was looking forward to getting on a different one - nah, back on the same one for 7 more hours to Heathrow.
You just have to put your trust in them I guess. We are on a 777 to Jamaica on Monday... Won't show the OH that video till we get back
No no. Download the video and show her during take off Etihad Airbus out of Sydney to Abu Dhabi (the f1 liveried one). Engines started and the plane filled up with smoke. We were advised to stay put while,they worked out where the problem was. There was no evacuation, and they tried to restart 3 times with similar smoky effects in the cabin.
We stayed on board while they found the problem and fixed it, started clean and then flew 14 hours to Abu Dhabi. Got off to change planes and was looking forward to getting on a different one - nah, back on the same one for 7 more hours to Heathrow.
You just have to put your trust in them I guess. We are on a 777 to Jamaica on Monday... Won't show the OH that video till we get back
tenfour said:
drdino said:
F*ck me...
I think if I was on board, I'd have been making a bee-line for the emergency exit the second the aircraft came to a stop.
tenfour said:
drdino said:
F*ck me...
I think if I was on board, I'd have been making a bee-line for the emergency exit the second the aircraft came to a stop.
Or alternatively how about this - let the professionals decide whats best! Oh look, no casualties!
IanH755 said:
tenfour said:
drdino said:
F*ck me...
I think if I was on board, I'd have been making a bee-line for the emergency exit the second the aircraft came to a stop.
Or alternatively how about this - let the professionals decide whats best! Oh look, no casualties!
IanH755 said:
........causing a crush at the doors as all the toxic smoke pours in.
Or alternatively how about this - let the professionals decide whats best! Oh look, no casualties!
Easy to say after the event when the fire was successfully extinguished.Or alternatively how about this - let the professionals decide whats best! Oh look, no casualties!
Looking at the footage, it seems that the fire was sufficiently advanced for it to present a real risk of combusting the fuel tanks, which means that the call to retain the passengers was a lucky one.
I will be shocked (not to mention slightly terrified) to learn that the procedures in the event of a significant fire determine that the passengers should be kept on board.
tenfour said:
IanH755 said:
........causing a crush at the doors as all the toxic smoke pours in.
Or alternatively how about this - let the professionals decide whats best! Oh look, no casualties!
Easy to say after the event when the fire was successfully extinguished.Or alternatively how about this - let the professionals decide whats best! Oh look, no casualties!
Looking at the footage, it seems that the fire was sufficiently advanced for it to present a real risk of combusting the fuel tanks, which means that the call to retain the passengers was a lucky one.
I will be shocked (not to mention slightly terrified) to learn that the procedures in the event of a significant fire determine that the passengers should be kept on board.
tenfour said:
IanH755 said:
........causing a crush at the doors as all the toxic smoke pours in.
Or alternatively how about this - let the professionals decide whats best! Oh look, no casualties!
Easy to say after the event when the fire was successfully extinguished.Or alternatively how about this - let the professionals decide whats best! Oh look, no casualties!
Looking at the footage, it seems that the fire was sufficiently advanced for it to present a real risk of combusting the fuel tanks, which means that the call to retain the passengers was a lucky one.
I will be shocked (not to mention slightly terrified) to learn that the procedures in the event of a significant fire determine that the passengers should be kept on board.
It's hard to know what the pilots knew, they returned due to a fuel leak, landed and vacated the runway. It looks like it was only as they were vacating the runway did it actually catch fire. Then it probably became rather confusing. The cabin crew would be calling in and reporting fire, air traffic control would be saying there was fire. The pilots are trying to communicate with the tower, the cabin crew and each other. You also have to know what's actually burning is it just hot brakes from landing.perhaps some hydraulic fluid has sprayed on them and it's just the wheels on fire. You know that if you evacuate the passengers there are likely to be injuries due to all those people going down slides and the chaos in the cabin and on the apron, It's not a decision to be taken lightly. Perhaps by the time they had a picture of what was going on, the fire services were well underway to putting it out? All will be revealed soon enough I'm sure.
If you do decide to evacuate a B777 you follow this procedure.
It doesn't take long but you have to find out about the fire and then decide to evacuate and then action the items on this checklist..
After finishing the checklist, I'd expect most or all of the passengers to be off the aircraft. The cabin crew are usually free to initiate the evacuation by themselves if they think it's necessary but some cultures may be more reluctant to do so than others. If there is fire and any doubt about the safety of the aircraft then an evacuation using the slides is highly likely to be the best course of action,
If you do decide to evacuate a B777 you follow this procedure.
It doesn't take long but you have to find out about the fire and then decide to evacuate and then action the items on this checklist..
After finishing the checklist, I'd expect most or all of the passengers to be off the aircraft. The cabin crew are usually free to initiate the evacuation by themselves if they think it's necessary but some cultures may be more reluctant to do so than others. If there is fire and any doubt about the safety of the aircraft then an evacuation using the slides is highly likely to be the best course of action,
IanH755 said:
........causing a crush at the doors as all the toxic smoke pours in.
Or alternatively how about this - let the professionals decide whats best! Oh look, no casualties!
Yeah, whatevs. I'd have been stampeding towards the exit throwing women and babies behind me as I went.Or alternatively how about this - let the professionals decide whats best! Oh look, no casualties!
tenfour said:
IanH755 said:
........causing a crush at the doors as all the toxic smoke pours in.
Or alternatively how about this - let the professionals decide whats best! Oh look, no casualties!
Easy to say after the event when the fire was successfully extinguished.Or alternatively how about this - let the professionals decide whats best! Oh look, no casualties!
Looking at the footage, it seems that the fire was sufficiently advanced for it to present a real risk of combusting the fuel tanks, which means that the call to retain the passengers was a lucky one.
I will be shocked (not to mention slightly terrified) to learn that the procedures in the event of a significant fire determine that the passengers should be kept on board.
Dammed if they did (had that been the case) and dammed if they didn't (because it wasn't).
Unbusy said:
WinstonWolf said:
They had been asked to remain seated by the captain as it was the safest thing to do at that particular moment in time. Imagine if someone popped a door on the fire side... I doubt it was easy, but it was the correct call if there were no injuries.
Safest? Seriously? Correct call? Just so wrong buddy, im staggered you said that.I suspect said Captain will be in the deep doo doo.
As for opening the doors on the starboard side, the Cabin Crew are trained to look first before opening an exit. Its bloody common sense anyway.
Yes, you can still evacuate with the fire engines there. The passengers should have been piling out before they turned up anyway. Just keep out of their way.
Im shocked they didnt evacuate. Totally against all industry protocol.
Have a look at the Chinese B737. That fire started because of a missing washer on a leading edge slat from memory. Thank Heavens there were no casulties.
If the fire was inside then yes get out ASAP.
Like I say, just what I have seen on investigations of previous incidents.
IMO the question you continue to ask yourself is if the aircraft occupants are safer off inside the aircraft or outside of it. You gather information from all of the available sources and then continue to ask whether the occupants are safer inside or outside.
You act on the information you have, but the more information you can gather, the more valid the decision will be. Cabin crew may tell you that the wing is on fire. ATC are further away and may be less useful other than perhaps giving an ETA for the fire crew. Based on the information you have are occupants safer inside or outside?
The fire crew now arrive and confirm that the wing is one fire, but they may also say that they are containing fire and the wind is taking it away from the fuselage. Given the known threats of an evacuation, and the potential for pax to impede the fire fighters during an evacuation; are the occupants safer inside or outside?
The wind direction now changes as it's light and variable: the fire crews continue to tell you that the fire is contained, but the cabin crew call you to say that some light smoke fumes are starting to enter the cabin. Are the occupants safer inside or outside? You're unsure so you speak to the fire chief again.
Almost immediately the cabin crew call you back and say that the fumes have turned to smoke and it's building. Are the occupants safer inside or outside the aircraft? You may decide that they're now safer outside the aircraft as you can't determine at what rate the smoke in the cabin is changing.
So you decide to evacuate. The fire chief needs to know to expect passengers around the aircraft. The cabin crew and passengers need to know including any extra info that'd help. ATC need to know - via a MAYDAY call - to keep other aircraft and vehicles away (I'm sure they'd have done this already, buy you never know).
What you most definitely don't need is some f
king prick (
) deciding they know better and opening the doors in the middle of a situation that's being managed safely and effectively.
You act on the information you have, but the more information you can gather, the more valid the decision will be. Cabin crew may tell you that the wing is on fire. ATC are further away and may be less useful other than perhaps giving an ETA for the fire crew. Based on the information you have are occupants safer inside or outside?
The fire crew now arrive and confirm that the wing is one fire, but they may also say that they are containing fire and the wind is taking it away from the fuselage. Given the known threats of an evacuation, and the potential for pax to impede the fire fighters during an evacuation; are the occupants safer inside or outside?
The wind direction now changes as it's light and variable: the fire crews continue to tell you that the fire is contained, but the cabin crew call you to say that some light smoke fumes are starting to enter the cabin. Are the occupants safer inside or outside? You're unsure so you speak to the fire chief again.
Almost immediately the cabin crew call you back and say that the fumes have turned to smoke and it's building. Are the occupants safer inside or outside the aircraft? You may decide that they're now safer outside the aircraft as you can't determine at what rate the smoke in the cabin is changing.
So you decide to evacuate. The fire chief needs to know to expect passengers around the aircraft. The cabin crew and passengers need to know including any extra info that'd help. ATC need to know - via a MAYDAY call - to keep other aircraft and vehicles away (I'm sure they'd have done this already, buy you never know).
What you most definitely don't need is some f
king prick () deciding they know better and opening the doors in the middle of a situation that's being managed safely and effectively.Edited by pushthebutton on Tuesday 28th June 18:36
pushthebutton said:
The issue could be whose definition of uncontrollable fire you are using? It will mean different things to different people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FlXCwmtPSwMaybe I've missed your point. If I asked the FO to look out the window and he/she told me the a large portion of the wing was on fire, backed up by ATC reports...
Well that's an airliner, on fire and nothing at that point seems to be even trying to control it.
Everybody out would be my command.
Edited by Chuck328 on Wednesday 29th June 01:19
klunkT5 said:
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