HMS Ambush Involved in a Collision

[dudleybloke]

JeremyH5 said:

williamp said:

unless its an aircraft, where red is on the starboard side when you look up at it.... Thinking about it, if something was underneath the submarine, they would see red on the right hand side too. maybe we need to blame a drunken kraken rather then the royal navy.

I think you are confusing your left (port) with the vessel's left (port).

Any port in a storm.

[kowalski655]

Should be easy to spot when it gets back to Faslane...it will be the one with Duck Tape all over the conning tower,like a council Mondeo

[Ayahuasca]

williamp said:

markmullen said:

RobDickinson said:

Im not the only one gets port and starboard confused

Port is red that's left on the table.

That gives you port and starboard, nav lights and drinking etiquette in one easy step!

unless its an aircraft, where red is on the starboard side when you look up at it.... Thinking about it, if something was underneath the submarine, they would see red on the right hand side too. maybe we need to blame a drunken kraken rather then the royal navy.

No it is not. Port and Starboard are Never mixed up. That is why they are not the same as Left and Right.

[maffski]

Max_Torque said:

Is it just me, or does "HMS Ambush" sound like a rather underhand kind of name, even for a submarine??? ;-)

No, underhand would be 'HMS It's just a Russian Trawler, nothing to see here' (and real underhand would be the same, but in Russian).

[williamp]

Ayahuasca said:

williamp said:

markmullen said:

RobDickinson said:

Im not the only one gets port and starboard confused

Port is red that's left on the table.

That gives you port and starboard, nav lights and drinking etiquette in one easy step!

unless its an aircraft, where red is on the starboard side when you look up at it.... Thinking about it, if something was underneath the submarine, they would see red on the right hand side too. maybe we need to blame a drunken kraken rather then the royal navy.

No it is not. Port and Starboard are Never mixed up. That is why they are not the same as Left and Right.

And a Kraken which has had too much fortified wine (there must be a better word for it??) would know that??

[Sylvaforever]

Not having much luck with this class of boat, either that or the RN is manned completely by incompetent skippers.

Lol, "you have control no I haven't "!!

[FiF]

Just a reminder, whilst it remains for the Navy to confirm exactly what was going on at the time, this boat was deployed on the Submarine Command Course, otherwise known as the Perisher.

During this course the prospective commanders are asked to put the boat in very potentially compromising positions to test their ability, often while very tired. Very little margins are typical, and dummy attacks on commercial vessels frequent. It might be disconcerting for passengers on Macbrayne ferries to realise that they are being tracked by a Submarine.

Anyway as above, it's quite possible that the boat was under the command of a Perisher. Nevertheless if they are getting themselves into an undesirable situation it's the job of Teacher or the boat Commander to keep him out of trouble, the latter having the ultimate responsibility on the safety of the boat.

Despite some of the sarcy comments on this thread, at least two of the three people mentioned, Perisher, Teacher or Commander will be amongst what are acknowledged by many navies, including the USN, as THE best sub commanders in the world. Said without a hint of Clarksonism traditionally used with that phrase.

Just saying.

[AW111]

They still ran into something.

Just saying.

[anonymous-user]

AW111 said:

They still ran into something.

Just saying.

Yup, that's got to be top of any objectives regardless of the exercise.

Imagine the facilitative debriefing afterwards.

"So (prospective commander) what things do you think went well today"? You glance at the instructors notes and it has 'crashed the boat' on them.

[jmorgan]

Maybe it was a crash for cash scam?

[FiF]

el stovey said:

AW111 said:

They still ran into something.

Just saying.

Yup, that's got to be top of any objectives regardless of the exercise.

Imagine the facilitative debriefing afterwards.

"So (prospective commander) what things do you think went well today"? You glance at the instructors notes and it has 'crashed the boat' on them.

Actually you clearly don't get it. It could well be that it was the task to do something which involved getting very close to a particular vessel. If the Perisher gets it wrong, and they do, especially if being chased down by four sub hunters with specific exercise instructions to not turn away, it's the job of Teacher to intervene if it gets too risky, and ultimately the final buck stops with the boat Commander, if he feels that Teacher is pushing it. So whilst it's a black mark against the Perisher, probably a career ender, it's worse for Teacher and the Commander imo.

At this stage we don't know why or what they were doing, the reason for the failure, human error or equipment failure, or even if any Perisher in temporary command was a Royal Navy officer, foreign navies send their prospective candidates to the course as it's recognised as producing the best of the best.

But anyway carry on scoffing.

[anonymous-user]

FiF said:

el stovey said:

AW111 said:

They still ran into something.

Just saying.

Yup, that's got to be top of any objectives regardless of the exercise.

Imagine the facilitative debriefing afterwards.

"So (prospective commander) what things do you think went well today"? You glance at the instructors notes and it has 'crashed the boat' on them.

Actually you clearly don't get it. It could well be that it was the task to do something which involved getting very close to a particular vessel. If the Perisher gets it wrong, and they do, especially if being chased down by four sub hunters with specific exercise instructions to not turn away, it's the job of Teacher to intervene if it gets too risky, and ultimately the final buck stops with the boat Commander, if he feels that Teacher is pushing it. So whilst it's a black mark against the Perisher, probably a career ender, it's worse for Teacher and the Commander imo.

At this stage we don't know why or what they were doing, the reason for the failure, human error or equipment failure, or even if any Perisher in temporary command was a Royal Navy officer, foreign navies send their prospective candidates to the course as it's recognised as producing the best of the best.

But anyway carry on scoffing.

I get it perfectly thanks. Candidate was training to be a commander and crashed into something. Whoever is ultimately In charge if you crash your boat when demonstrating your command potential, it doesn't look very good.

[FiF]

el stovey said:

I get it perfectly thanks. Candidate was training to be a commander and crashed into something. Whoever is ultimately In charge if you crash your boat when demonstrating your command potential, it doesn't look very good.

Of course not, it's a career ending incident for someone, possibly more than one.

A question, crash during flying lessons, avoidable human error. Out of interest who carries the greater blame, the pupil or the instructor?

[anonymous-user]

FiF said:

el stovey said:

I get it perfectly thanks. Candidate was training to be a commander and crashed into something. Whoever is ultimately In charge if you crash your boat when demonstrating your command potential, it doesn't look very good.

Of course not, it's a career ending incident for someone, possibly more than one.

A question, crash during flying lessons, avoidable human error. Out of interest who carries the greater blame, the pupil or the instructor?

That's flying lessons, the student isn't expected to know how to fly, the instructor would be responsible. A more accurate comparison would be for a crash during a pilots command course in an airline. Yes the trainer would be legally responsible but the potential captain would be unlikely to pass.

Anyway, I don't really want to get involved in an argument about it. I think most people are just pointing out lightheartedly, that it's not a good thing to prang a submarine. You obviously feel strongly about it and I've no interest in offending you or anyone connected to the event in any way whatsoever. Im sure anyone being considered for command of a submarine is a very high calibre submariner indeed.

[FiF]

Yes let's leave it there, but suspect the answer in both cases, air and water, is it all depends, devil in detail, which none of us know, yet.

[Sylvaforever]

jmorgan said:

Maybe it was a crash for cash scam?

uninsured too lol

[Sylvaforever]

FiF said:

el stovey said:

AW111 said:

They still ran into something.

Just saying.

Yup, that's got to be top of any objectives regardless of the exercise.

Imagine the facilitative debriefing afterwards.

"So (prospective commander) what things do you think went well today"? You glance at the instructors notes and it has 'crashed the boat' on them.

Actually you clearly don't get it. It could well be that it was the task to do something which involved getting very close to a particular vessel. If the Perisher gets it wrong, and they do, especially if being chased down by four sub hunters with specific exercise instructions to not turn away, it's the job of Teacher to intervene if it gets too risky, and ultimately the final buck stops with the boat Commander, if he feels that Teacher is pushing it. So whilst it's a black mark against the Perisher, probably a career ender, it's worse for Teacher and the Commander imo.

At this stage we don't know why or what they were doing, the reason for the failure, human error or equipment failure, or even if any Perisher in temporary command was a Royal Navy officer, foreign navies send their prospective candidates to the course as it's recognised as producing the best of the best.

But anyway carry on scoffing.

Don't worry we will.

So that's the two flat tops without "planes" @ how much each sans crews lol,

Air defence ships that well don't

and now a busted boat with damage that may well have stressed the central hull section, how much are those from the shop?

Still main point is they all got back. Just.

[MBBlat]

Sylvaforever said:

and now a busted boat with damage that may well have stressed the central hull section, how much are those from the shop?

Its a fairly minor dent as far as these things go - as usual the USN does ship collisons better

She was back in service 2 years later.

[Jezzerh]

Could be worse...

[kowalski655]

Nah,that will buff out mate