Purchased dream wooden boat ...

[hidetheelephants]

snobetter said:

Is there any reason other than aesthetics for the pointy rear?

In terms of broads/inland water it's just for looks and to a lesser extent speed from the increased waterline, but for seagoing vessels it offers increased buoyancy which reduces the risk of waves breaking over the stern when going downwind.

[Mave]

Lovely boat, and a pretty name

[jjones]

Nice looking boat, keep the updates coming.

[Ayahuasca]

hidetheelephants said:

snobetter said:

Is there any reason other than aesthetics for the pointy rear?

In terms of broads/inland water it's just for looks and to a lesser extent speed from the increased waterline, but for seagoing vessels it offers increased buoyancy which reduces the risk of waves breaking over the stern when going downwind.

A pointy rear end offers LESS buoyancy than a non-pointy rear (logical as there is less displacement) but the pointyness helps to split a following breaking wave, so rather than the wave pushing on the back of the boat, it goes to either side. Some say this makes for greater seaworthiness, but the trade-off is less space in boat, less storage, etc. For an inland boat, it it possibly just about looks. I guess if you have a shallow muddy bank, you can get a pointy bit closer to the side with less risk of getting stuck? Maybe that's it..?

[cptsideways]

Yes keep us posted on her new life on the water, I do love a woody. I am looking acquire something when such a thing comes my way.

[hidetheelephants]

Ayahuasca said:

hidetheelephants said:

snobetter said:

Is there any reason other than aesthetics for the pointy rear?

In terms of broads/inland water it's just for looks and to a lesser extent speed from the increased waterline, but for seagoing vessels it offers increased buoyancy which reduces the risk of waves breaking over the stern when going downwind.

A pointy rear end offers LESS buoyancy than a non-pointy rear (logical as there is less displacement) but the pointyness helps to split a following breaking wave, so rather than the wave pushing on the back of the boat, it goes to either side. Some say this makes for greater seaworthiness, but the trade-off is less space in boat, less storage, etc. For an inland boat, it it possibly just about looks. I guess if you have a shallow muddy bank, you can get a pointy bit closer to the side with less risk of getting stuck? Maybe that's it..?

A counter stern offers a rising rate of buoyancy as immersion increases, not unlike a raked and flared bow. A transom(cut off square) stern does not do this and is at greater risk in a following sea. A canoe stern is just a special kind of counter stern.

[snobetter]

hidetheelephants said:

Ayahuasca said:

hidetheelephants said:

snobetter said:

Is there any reason other than aesthetics for the pointy rear?

In terms of broads/inland water it's just for looks and to a lesser extent speed from the increased waterline, but for seagoing vessels it offers increased buoyancy which reduces the risk of waves breaking over the stern when going downwind.

A pointy rear end offers LESS buoyancy than a non-pointy rear (logical as there is less displacement) but the pointyness helps to split a following breaking wave, so rather than the wave pushing on the back of the boat, it goes to either side. Some say this makes for greater seaworthiness, but the trade-off is less space in boat, less storage, etc. For an inland boat, it it possibly just about looks. I guess if you have a shallow muddy bank, you can get a pointy bit closer to the side with less risk of getting stuck? Maybe that's it..?

A counter stern offers a rising rate of buoyancy as immersion increases, not unlike a raked and flared bow. A transom(cut off square) stern does not do this and is at greater risk in a following sea. A canoe stern is just a special kind of counter stern.

Sorry for slight thread wander OP, but as I understand it you not only have a pretty boat, but you're also good for surfing it, result! Thanks to those who explained.

[Ayahuasca]

hidetheelephants said:

Ayahuasca said:

hidetheelephants said:

snobetter said:

Is there any reason other than aesthetics for the pointy rear?

In terms of broads/inland water it's just for looks and to a lesser extent speed from the increased waterline, but for seagoing vessels it offers increased buoyancy which reduces the risk of waves breaking over the stern when going downwind.

A pointy rear end offers LESS buoyancy than a non-pointy rear (logical as there is less displacement) but the pointyness helps to split a following breaking wave, so rather than the wave pushing on the back of the boat, it goes to either side. Some say this makes for greater seaworthiness, but the trade-off is less space in boat, less storage, etc. For an inland boat, it it possibly just about looks. I guess if you have a shallow muddy bank, you can get a pointy bit closer to the side with less risk of getting stuck? Maybe that's it..?

A counter stern offers a rising rate of buoyancy as immersion increases, not unlike a raked and flared bow. A transom(cut off square) stern does not do this and is at greater risk in a following sea. A canoe stern is just a special kind of counter stern.

Nope, a square stern offers greater buoyancy as immersion increases, as it displaces a greater volume of water (for a given hull length).

Thus in a following sea that is not breaking a square stern will rise to the sea more than a canoe stern, so might be dryer on deck, but in a BREAKING following sea a canoe stern is safer as the water cannot push on the stern so much. Hence old lifeboats, which both launched and recovered through surf, had canoe sterns.

Check out these two pictures. If you put weight at the back of the boat to sink the stern, which one will displace more water?

[hidetheelephants]

Which is going to deal with a wave from behind better, the canoe truncated at the green lines or the one with the full canoe stern? A stern cannot begin to rise until the wave hits it and with a transom stern the lever arm from the boat's centre of buoyancy is shorter.

[dave-the-diver]

Ayahuasca said:

(for a given hull length).

Think you two are actually in agreement, given the proviso above.


Back on topic.

Pretty boat, North or South Broads?

Bermudan, I guess? What you really want is a big topsail rig...

David

[Ayahuasca]

dave-the-diver said:

Think you two are actually in agreement, given the proviso above.


Back on topic.

Pretty boat, North or South Broads?

Bermudan, I guess? What you really want is a big topsail rig...

David

You are the first person I know to call a Topper a pretty boat!

[hidetheelephants]

dave-the-diver said:

Ayahuasca said:

(for a given hull length).

Think you two are actually in agreement, given the proviso above.

I missed that bit; with that caveat what Ayahuasca said is right, but in the context of yacht design(or at least the design era of the OP's boat) what I've outlined applies.

[impetuous]

I rather enjoyed the pointy discussion, enlightened. Thank you for all the comments and kind words.

Simpo Two said:

My father used to say that boats pointed at both ends had been lifeboats - do you think that's the case here?

Ayahuasca said:

Hence old lifeboats, which both launched and recovered through surf, had canoe sterns.

Exploring Walton Backwaters on my kayak today and paddled past a 116 year old lifeboat, moored at Titchmarsh Marina, Essex, to admire her, now understood, canoe stern.

Interesting link on History of James Stevens No.14 Lifeboat



As for my boat, repaired mast finally up with lovely new weld seam, rigged, red sails on ... but forgot all about insurance and Broads Annual Toll (water road tax which requires the insurance)... not very good with paperwork ... so can't play yet.

dave-the-diver said:

Pretty boat, North or South Broads?
Bermudan, I guess?

Thank you.
Indeed, Bermudan with a furled jib ... North Broads

Edited by impetuous on Tuesday 6th September 19:35

[Simpo Two]

Simpo Two said:

My father used to say that boats pointed at both ends had been lifeboats - do you think that's the case here?

Ayahuasca said:

Hence old lifeboats, which both launched and recovered through surf, had canoe sterns.

Actually I meant ship's lifeboats, but perhaps the reason is the same.

[impetuous]

She's alive, sailed for the first time!



Glorious to see red sails fill and learn that she's pretty, does exactly what she wants and will be a very difficult girl to control.

Comments in the boat shed about the rudder being oversized were answered this weekend when a slow speed 180' turn in a narrow river section resulted in a "THUD" and wooden bank sleeper leaving a nice mark upon the freshly painted bow. A Broads boat would have fully turned in three-quarters of that water. I think the rudder was extended in past lives.

More speed, playing with setup and she sharp turns 180' - but in a very feminine manner.



A local instructor and myself simply loved exploring her behaviour, limits and dozens of peculiarities.



Delighted how a dusty object in a shed becomes a bobbing boat upon water, then a fast heeling deck buried in the water at a crazy angle in strong gusts this Sunday.

At three and a half tons, with the canoe stern, she is very fast. Look forward to measuring speed.

The petrol engine, a 1949 Stuart Turner P5ME oversize with 4hp is a powerful delight to hear, watch and use.



I wasn't expecting the water orchestra the first night. Burbles, creaks, clatters, groans, creaks, swishes and fascinating submarine sonar noises (very start of video) -

Link to rubbish video for the sound

Few drips inside during heavy rain, but that's to be expected and part of the "old school" pleasure.

Costs have been reasonable thus far, did a lot work myself (self taught, office based, no specialist boat skills) and there is very little to go wrong.

Electrical system is simply the starter motor, alternator, bilge pump and one 12V bulb inside the cabin. Cooking on a camping gas store and that's really all the "systems" onboard. Simple.

Broads Permit at £140 for the year ("road tax"), annual insurance much the same, await invoice for mast welding and launch.

To those who stated "there's only two happy days owning a boat...", I disagree. Each day so far has been excellent.

As I learn to sail, look to take part in events, read upon her, play with the engine, rigging, "improvements" and enjoy the Broads, hopefully the fun will continue.

So far, I've had more pleasure and freedom, especially heeling and zipping about on the Broads at speed under sail, than any of the cars I've owned. And at a fraction of the cost.

Will keep up thread, good and bad, if there's interest.

Stats: Days owned: 50 - Costs so far:£4590 (including purchase price and mooring) - Nights aboard:2 - Hours sailed/aboard:63

Edited by impetuous on Tuesday 6th September 20:36

[Simpo Two]

impetuous said:

So far, I've had more pleasure and freedom, especially heeling and zipping about on the Broads at speed under sail, than any of the cars I've owned. And at a fraction of the cost.[/footnote]

A great story. My thoughts are that cars speed you up, boats slow you down. It's quite a hard thing to get used to. And a night on board is magical.

[mac96]

Those noises are so nostalgic- takes me back 40 years.
An absolutely beautiful boat- hope you continue to enjoy it

[paintman]

Very nice! Look forward to seeing/hearing more.

[cptsideways]

Fabulous, I'm seriously looking into woodies myself. My brother has just gotten into sailing & is on his first "Yogurt Pot" plastic tastic & the next purchase may well be a combined effort, fingers crossed some wood & brass & canvas.

I've overnighted a few times on my boat at sea, unless its mirror flat you won't sleep well though mines a sports boat with a planing hull, I'm sure a sailing hull is lot better?

[impetuous]

Thank you for the positive replies.

Simpo Two said:

A great story. My thoughts are that cars speed you up, boats slow you down. It's quite a hard thing to get used to. And a night on board is magical.

I like that, nicely said.

mac96 said:

Those noises are so nostalgic- takes me back 40 years. An absolutely beautiful boat- hope you continue to enjoy it

Happy to have taken you back with nostalgia.

And hidetheelephants was right.

hidetheelephants said:

Still has the original ST exercise centre too, soon have your biceps ripped(and all your clothes smelling of petrol).