Nimitz carrier in WW11
Discussion
Apart from the time travel scenario using 1970s military hardware against 1940s stuff isn't really far fetched. The Royal Navy was fighting WW2 ships and 1950s aircraft in the Falklands, and in the late seventies Ark Royal's Phantoms came very close to having to fight Guatemalan P51s.
williamp said:
I expect a simple computer programme would crack the enigma/lorenz codes it would intercept too.
Incredibly a modern Carrier Battle Group doesn't have that ability any more since the removal of the ELINT A/C (spies in the skies) from the carriers. It's now done back at HQ's from intel sourced by "various sources" and any relevant info is sent to the ships via secure satellite.Plus I'm not sure that it's easy to programme a modern PC. It's been done in 2007 for a contest by PC programming experts in a specific language (ADA), not the sort of thing you find on a Carrier.
DMN said:
That would depend on how advanvced the missle is versus how big a picture the aircraft makes on radar. The Woodern Wonder that is the Mozzie would be harder to pick up on radar than an all metal plane. So any missle fired against the Mozzie will find it harder.
Heatseakers may be better, but the RAF heavies had exhaust shrouds to try and hide the flames at night. They might not be enough however.
Conversely the best chance for the WWII fighter may be to get into a low, slow turning fight. You can see in the youtube clip posted above the F14 almost "fell out of the sky" trying to mix it with the Zero.
The AIM-9L seaker head is pretty sensitive, so even a flame damped piston engine would be a piece of cake, hell, I used to lock them onto people walking the other side of the ramp at Deci airfield when carrying out tests on the Sea Harrier. Heatseakers may be better, but the RAF heavies had exhaust shrouds to try and hide the flames at night. They might not be enough however.
Conversely the best chance for the WWII fighter may be to get into a low, slow turning fight. You can see in the youtube clip posted above the F14 almost "fell out of the sky" trying to mix it with the Zero.
IanH755 said:
I'm not sure that it's easy to programme a modern PC
https://www.visualstudio.com/https://www.jetbrains.com/
https://nodejs.org/en/
https://www.python.org/
https://repl.it/
https://www.codecademy.com/
...answer... VERY easy!
It carries about 3 million gallons of aviation fuel so, depending on her fuel level when she jumps back in time (lets say fully refuelled) there plenty for a few months of constant 24-7 operational flying at least. It's weapons/food she'd run out of first as the weapons can't be replenished at all and she only has a max of 90 days of food.
The big issue would be - do you announce your arrival to the allies? It would be world altering and it may be better (if you're going to nip back to the future as per the OP) to stay hidden from everyone as much as possible whilst carrying out your attacks on the IJN, just to avoid the culture shock the world would suffer if Time Travellers came true.
The big issue would be - do you announce your arrival to the allies? It would be world altering and it may be better (if you're going to nip back to the future as per the OP) to stay hidden from everyone as much as possible whilst carrying out your attacks on the IJN, just to avoid the culture shock the world would suffer if Time Travellers came true.
SystemParanoia said:
https://www.visualstudio.com/
https://www.jetbrains.com/
https://nodejs.org/en/
https://www.python.org/
https://repl.it/
https://www.codecademy.com/
...answer... VERY easy!
And how do you access those in 1940? https://www.jetbrains.com/
https://nodejs.org/en/
https://www.python.org/
https://repl.it/
https://www.codecademy.com/
...answer... VERY easy!
IanH755 said:
And how do you access those in 1940?
You don't need to.Windows and Linux machines can be programmed out of the box without installing anything.
Windows ( Powershell and Visualbasic )
Linux ( All of the above and more )
Android ( Like Linux if you use the Termux App - you don't even need to be rooted! )
Edited by SystemParanoia on Wednesday 24th August 16:05
To go back over this again - By who? Who on the carrier is a computer programmer with the skills to create a program to decipher a WW2 cipher? It's not an everyday skill for people in the USN
Plus, as mentioned again, it's already been done by an expert programmer in 2007 and he had to use a special programming language (ADA) to do it - here's the work he carried out - http://www.schlaupelz.de/SZ42/SZ42_software.html
Plus, as mentioned again, it's already been done by an expert programmer in 2007 and he had to use a special programming language (ADA) to do it - here's the work he carried out - http://www.schlaupelz.de/SZ42/SZ42_software.html
Edited by IanH755 on Wednesday 24th August 15:46
IanH755 said:
To go back over this again - By who? Who on the carrier is a computer programmer with the skills to create a program to decipher a WW2 cipher? It's not an everyday skill for people in the USN
Plus, as mentioned again, it's already been done by an expert programmer in 2007 and he had to use a special programming language (ADA) to do it - here's the work he carried out - http://www.schlaupelz.de/SZ42/SZ42_software.html
I concede to your point about having an on-board computer scientist ( although the eventuality is not entirely impossible ) Plus, as mentioned again, it's already been done by an expert programmer in 2007 and he had to use a special programming language (ADA) to do it - here's the work he carried out - http://www.schlaupelz.de/SZ42/SZ42_software.html
Edited by IanH755 on Wednesday 24th August 15:46
but language choice is entirely incidental to the solution therefore personal choice.
example he used GCC to compile ADA ( GCC is a C/C++ interpreter found in almost all versions of linux ) .. he could have just used C directly..
if you fancy challenging yourself and possibly having a bit of fun in the process, have a read of this book.
http://www.cambridge.org/codingclub-blackflag/
Its aimed at kids, but should get you scratching your head for a little while
Edited by SystemParanoia on Wednesday 24th August 16:18
IanH755 said:
It carries about 3 million gallons of aviation fuel so, depending on her fuel level when she jumps back in time (lets say fully refuelled) there plenty for a few months of constant 24-7 operational flying at least. It's weapons/food she'd run out of first as the weapons can't be replenished at all and she only has a max of 90 days of food.
The big issue would be - do you announce your arrival to the allies? It would be world altering and it may be better (if you're going to nip back to the future as per the OP) to stay hidden from everyone as much as possible whilst carrying out your attacks on the IJN, just to avoid the culture shock the world would suffer if Time Travellers came true.
I'd want to announce my arrival. With a few months to play with it might be possible to get some acceptable fuel refined and maybe even produce some useful bombs and cannon shells.The big issue would be - do you announce your arrival to the allies? It would be world altering and it may be better (if you're going to nip back to the future as per the OP) to stay hidden from everyone as much as possible whilst carrying out your attacks on the IJN, just to avoid the culture shock the world would suffer if Time Travellers came true.
Also you could let Eric 'Winkle' Brown loose in a Tomcat, no doubt he could suggest some improvements.
How would WWII aircraft go on trying to operate from Nimitz? Landing presumably wouldn't be a problem but I doubt you could use the catapult for take offs.
Dr Jekyll said:
....
How would WWII aircraft go on trying to operate from Nimitz? Landing presumably wouldn't be a problem but I doubt you could use the catapult for take offs.
WW2 aircraft flew from a carrier under their own power,so no problem launching them from a modern carrier.How would WWII aircraft go on trying to operate from Nimitz? Landing presumably wouldn't be a problem but I doubt you could use the catapult for take offs.
Arrestor wires might need some changes though,but probably minor ones
PS:Final Countdown,great film
kowalski655 said:
WW2 aircraft flew from a carrier under their own power,so no problem launching them from a modern carrier.
Arrestor wires might need some changes though,but probably minor ones
PS:Final Countdown,great film
I don't know if most of them would even need the arrestor wires - there's a lot of deck to use, she's a pretty fast ship, and the planes of the time would land at 80mph. Steam into any significant wind and you'd be looking at speeds of less than 40mph across the deck. Arrestor wires might need some changes though,but probably minor ones
PS:Final Countdown,great film
If you're thinking about a war winning move, IMO a strike on the heart of Tokyo would have been the best thing to do - level the imperial palace and other important buildings, likely take out a fair few leaders, and it would take a lot of the fight out of them.
DMN said:
The Woodern Wonder that is the Mozzie would be harder to pick up on radar than an all metal plane.
Yep, worlds first stealth combat aircraft - among many other firsts.I remember reading about how the BAe TP's transit flying RR299 around the UK during the airshow season would make sneak unannounced low level attacks over RAF bases, and even with modern 80's/early 90's radar tech, the Mossie had a very low radar signature.
Interesting answers! I was thinking the carrier would appear, operate in isolation till it's weapons/food/aviation fuel ran out, then disappear, without letting it's presence to be known to the Allies or allowing any technology to be reverse engineered. As for code cracking, don't these tubs have a complement of around 5000? Surely there'd be at least one computer nerd on board who'd be up for it, as I'm sure there is on PH. OT, just spent the day at the Royal Armouries in Leeds, well worth a visit!
Wolfracesonic - In that limited role I'd just find and strike the IJN Carriers, especially if it was before Midway (early June '42) with a secondary target of Japan's Imperial General HQ in located in several buildings within Tokyo (IGHQ was just the name for a group of people who occupied various buildings) with the added bonus of a full Alpha strike to Tokyo being utterly shocking to the Japanese.
IanH755 said:
SystemParanoia said:
https://www.visualstudio.com/
https://www.jetbrains.com/
https://nodejs.org/en/
https://www.python.org/
https://repl.it/
https://www.codecademy.com/
...answer... VERY easy!
And how do you access those in 1940? https://www.jetbrains.com/
https://nodejs.org/en/
https://www.python.org/
https://repl.it/
https://www.codecademy.com/
...answer... VERY easy!
excelenginmamachine
Modern pcs are incredibly powerful!
The "bombe" machines used in the war ran at about 15 calculation loops per second, enormously fast for the time, but even the worst modern pc (single core at 2.5ghz) could do the same calc (integer maths) at a rate of around 300 million times per second!!
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff