Petition - Sentencing for criminal drivers that kill

[carinaman]

I was unsure which forum to post that in. As it petitions parliament I thought I'd put it here.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/156369

[randlemarcus]

Can we weaken sentencing for guilty victims as well, or is that word in there purely to highlight an emotional response?

[carinaman]

The petitioner has some link to BRAKE! and it's not like them to press emotional buttons.

[Trax]

To be fair, the sentancing for crime is pretty fecked anyway. You can get longer in jail for lying about a speeding ticket than attacking someone.

If you kill someone by dangerous driving, then in my mind that is akin to murder, not some watered down manslaughter crime. Take for example the deaths today by the driver being chased by police. The suspect, should now be charged with the murder of two people, not a few years for death by dangerous driving.

Also, drive away from police, the sentence should match a sentence for attempted murder. I think that driving like a cock socket trying to get away from a police chase, is like walking around the high street blindfolded with a shotgun, firing indiscriminately and should be treated the same.

[Dr Jekyll]

Trax said:

Also, drive away from police, the sentence should match a sentence for attempted murder. I think that driving like a cock socket trying to get away from a police chase, is like walking around the high street blindfolded with a shotgun, firing indiscriminately and should be treated the same.

In that case yes, I don't see why they can't be shot there and then.

But not all RTA deaths are like that, some are just mistakes, EG someone reversing out of the garage without properly checking there grandchild really gone into the house to give an example local to me.

I'm all for a deterrent, but prison in those cases would have the opposite effect because it encourages other drivers to think it can't happen to them. After all they aren't the kind of people who go to prison and they would certainly never dream of murdering somebody.

[davepoth]

Trax said:

If you kill someone by dangerous driving, then in my mind that is akin to murder, not some watered down manslaughter crime. Take for example the deaths today by the driver being chased by police. The suspect, should now be charged with the murder of two people, not a few years for death by dangerous driving.

You'd be wrong in that case. Causing death by dangerous driving requires no criminal intent, whereas murder requires it. You can't compare the two.

[saaby93]

davepoth said:

Trax said:

If you kill someone by dangerous driving, then in my mind that is akin to murder, not some watered down manslaughter crime. Take for example the deaths today by the driver being chased by police. The suspect, should now be charged with the murder of two people, not a few years for death by dangerous driving.

You'd be wrong in that case. Causing death by dangerous driving requires no criminal intent, whereas murder requires it. You can't compare the two.

Trouble with that incident is you have to ask whether the driver would have behaved in such a way if he wasnt being pursued. Did something make the red mist set in and he was effectively out of control.
It's different to deliberately mowing people down as we saw in another incident not so long ago.

You've got the other end of the scale where someones not intended to kill eg if they swerve to miss a dog and end up taking someone out Should a careful driver aware of the risks take the dog instead.

Sentencing when you take into account all the facts is probably about right.
It's not about revenge

[4x4Tyke]

bks, the sentence does and should reflect the degree of wrong doing. Not the consequences.

A driver doing 31mph who knocks over a child as a result of poor attention receive a harsh sentence, while another doing 110mph, but luckily missed the kid escape justice. No that is moronic.

[Sylvaforever]

4x4Tyke said:

bks, the sentence does and should reflect the degree of wrong doing. Not the consequences.

A driver doing 31mph who knocks over a child as a result of poor attention receive a harsh sentence, while another doing 110mph, but luckily missed the kid escape justice. No that is moronic.

Cant really be bothered disecting this one...

OP.. all I would advise is the saying there for the Grace......

[All that jazz]

carinaman said:

I was unsure which forum to post that in. As it petitions parliament I thought I'd put it here.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/156369

As it's clearly been started by Brake and you're the forum's Brake apologist, I'll pass thanks.

[rxe]

i have always wondered who funds Brake. So I bothered to look up the corporate sponsors:

http://www.brake.org.uk/fundraise/companies/partne...

Well, that's Deliveroo and Travis Perkins crossed off my list of companies to do business with.

[Trax]

davepoth said:

Trax said:

If you kill someone by dangerous driving, then in my mind that is akin to murder, not some watered down manslaughter crime. Take for example the deaths today by the driver being chased by police. The suspect, should now be charged with the murder of two people, not a few years for death by dangerous driving.

You'd be wrong in that case. Causing death by dangerous driving requires no criminal intent, whereas murder requires it. You can't compare the two.

I may be wrong, but I liken the two crimes. I believe the sentence for the scumbag who killed the two today, should be the same as someone who went out and decided to kill two random people.

[anonymous-user]

carinaman said:

I was unsure which forum to post that in. As it petitions parliament I thought I'd put it here.

Emotional twaddle, clearly using todays deaths to further their/your goals. Shove it.

[anonymous-user]

The petition's been running for about 8 weeks and got 16000 signatures. Very poor as these things go and I'm not surprised.

It's a pretty dumb or arrogant person who is certain that they or theirs could never be on the end of such a charge, through a moment of madness or even a mistake. There but for the grace.............., as said earlier.

Though there are occasionally cases that seem under or over-punished, I think this is one best left to the courts as it is.

[Tango13]

rxe said:

i have always wondered who funds Brake. So I bothered to look up the corporate sponsors:

http://www.brake.org.uk/fundraise/companies/partne...

Well, that's Deliveroo and Travis Perkins crossed off my list of companies to do business with.

Was it Castrol that dropped their sponsorship of 'Brake' like a sack of st after a few motoring/car owning forums put the word out to their members?

[Smollet]

davepoth said:

Trax said:

If you kill someone by dangerous driving, then in my mind that is akin to murder, not some watered down manslaughter crime. Take for example the deaths today by the driver being chased by police. The suspect, should now be charged with the murder of two people, not a few years for death by dangerous driving.

You'd be wrong in that case. Causing death by dangerous driving requires no criminal intent, whereas murder requires it. You can't compare the two.

Agreed

[Funkycoldribena]

fblm said:

Emotional twaddle, clearly using todays deaths to further their/your goals. Shove it.

Same here.Plus I'm sick of petitions.

[davepoth]

Trax said:

I may be wrong, but I liken the two crimes. I believe the sentence for the scumbag who killed the two today, should be the same as someone who went out and decided to kill two random people.

You are wrong. If there is enough evidence to prosecute for murder or manslaughter using a vehicle, the CPS will do so. There is precedent for doing that, if you recall PC Dave Phillips.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pc-dave-phill...

CPS charged for murder but the jury found the defendant guilty of manslaughter in the alternative.

[carinaman]

Trax said:

To be fair, the sentancing for crime is pretty fecked anyway. You can get longer in jail for lying about a speeding ticket than attacking someone.

I agree.

'Driving like that could kill somebody...

And if you do kill someone driving the penalties seem disproportinately low.

'Driving like that could kill somebody...

Couldn't more be done to raise the standards of driving on our roads?

[Smollet]

carinaman said:

Couldn't more be done to raise the standards of driving on our roads?

Yes. Regular mandatory refresher courses would be a start.