Whats going on with Monarch ?
Discussion
5150 said:
griffdude said:
48k said:
Just seen that. Nice touch - fast tracking FOs with a minimum of 2500 hours and 500 on Airbus or Boeing to join their Airbus and 747 fleets. Plus of course Virgin is all long haul.
I don't think any Monarch driver with half a brain would entertain going anywhere near RyanAir.
Think that a few might have already applied before waiting for the ship to go down.I don't think any Monarch driver with half a brain would entertain going anywhere near RyanAir.
Had a Monarch aircraft following us back into the UK in the early hours this morning, he said it was their last flight. Sad sight to see all the Monarch aircraft all parked up when we pulled onto stand.
HappySilver said:
sleepezy said:
JPJPJP said:
Callers to radio suggesting timing of Administration announcement was to ensure no planes were in the air at the time
Unless you want unlicensed, uninsured planes flying around this has to be the case48k said:
5150 said:
I know Virgin have opened up a recruitment channel specifically for Monarch drivers.
Just seen that. Nice touch - fast tracking FOs with a minimum of 2500 hours and 500 on Airbus or Boeing to join their Airbus and 747 fleets. Plus of course Virgin is all long haul.I don't think any Monarch driver with half a brain would entertain going anywhere near RyanAir.
I was speaking to a bloke today who worked for air Europe when they went bust, I think before monarch they might have been the biggest uk airline failure. Must be pretty grim working for anyone when they go bust.
Getting an opportunity like that with virgin is just amazing for them,
Thoughts are with you PHs monarch employees, I don’t want to name anyone but good luck.
Countdown said:
I may have misheard but on R5 they seemed to be suggesting that a lot of Qatar planes were sat around in the UKmdoing nothing because of the flight restrictions imposed on them by the Saudis....
This was mentioned a few months ago when BA chartered some Qatar planes to cover some they would have had to cancel due to BA strikes. Broadly the story was that snactions on Qatar by various arab states meant they had a lot of planes going nowhere so could be chartered with crew by BA, seems like the sanctions are still in place.HappySilver said:
sleepezy said:
JPJPJP said:
Callers to radio suggesting timing of Administration announcement was to ensure no planes were in the air at the time
Unless you want unlicensed, uninsured planes flying around this has to be the caseReading the news and watching the rolling updates on the television, you're laced with stories of customers standing at the airport saying "no one's told us nuffink", or '....the board of Monarch must have known about this for some time, but we weren't told', or '...the CAA knew some time ago they were struggling...'.
But what tends to be the case is that if a company needs urgent corporate surgery, if a restructuring plan is being attempted, then silence is actually part of the management 101 to even give you half a chance...
A relevant case study would be something like Continental in the early nineties. From my understanding the story goes along the lines of that the senior Bain consultant had uncovered on Thanksgiving '94 that cash was running dry and they couldn't deliver payroll for January '95. A classic symptom of a poorly performing and damaged organisation is lack of finance transparency being fed up the line as overinflated forecasts etc kick in. Anyway, said consultant and the new COO/president had been working on a deep cutting turnaround plan. And to make any turnaround work you need "air cover", financial, media, personnel - panic can't set in. And crucially you need space to rearrange your obligations.
The turnaround plan objectively only looked like a 35-40% probability of success, but faced with news of the cash flow, the guys more or less put a gun to the boards head and said this was the only possible plan they could follow and to sign it off. Board agreed and with silence demanded a restructuring could begin that didn't spook investors who'd likely have pulled their support if they'd known the depths of the problem and by the skin of their teeth they saved 40k jobs. If the press find out, customers go running and revenues collapse. Game over. So silence and discretion is understandably golden at times of crisis.
Once again it's hard to say if Monarch could have been saved, but successful turnarounds of disaster scenes can and do happen. Continental obviously did well enough to go on and form one half of the largest industry sectors merger to date in 2010. But you need nuts, desire and respect for the micro to turn around a failing concern. I suspect the people at the top of Monarch did a nice job of jauntily running a nice cuddly airline, but ultimately lacked the tenancity and experience in the pinch to deliver the team out of a death spiral.
The post above makes absolute sense but unfortunately most people are idiots and don't seem to understand that. If they were told 6 months ago people wouldn't have booked and the airline gone 6 months ago .....
Monarchs future has always been in the balance, while everyone seems to congratulate them on being great pilots and wonderful cabin crew I'm not sure that's enough. We didn't actively look to fly with them but when we did you could aWays expect a cheerful pilot that you can actually understand, the cabin crew were sometimes a bit hit or miss though.
Monarch were way behind in terms of mobile boarding cards, the planes were cramped but the plus point was they were always nice inside, our last flight being March 17 but without extra legroom I couldn't have managed it, luckily monarch were one of the only airlines to have a couple of rows of extra legroom seats.
The likes of Ryanair and Easyjet were always going to win the low cost battle, they are cheap and ultimately that's what the customer wants, they couldn't give a toss about nice crew and maintained planes, they are efficient in how they operate and if monarch could not compete then they must have very high staff and business costs.
Monarchs future has always been in the balance, while everyone seems to congratulate them on being great pilots and wonderful cabin crew I'm not sure that's enough. We didn't actively look to fly with them but when we did you could aWays expect a cheerful pilot that you can actually understand, the cabin crew were sometimes a bit hit or miss though.
Monarch were way behind in terms of mobile boarding cards, the planes were cramped but the plus point was they were always nice inside, our last flight being March 17 but without extra legroom I couldn't have managed it, luckily monarch were one of the only airlines to have a couple of rows of extra legroom seats.
The likes of Ryanair and Easyjet were always going to win the low cost battle, they are cheap and ultimately that's what the customer wants, they couldn't give a toss about nice crew and maintained planes, they are efficient in how they operate and if monarch could not compete then they must have very high staff and business costs.
steve-5snwi said:
The post above makes absolute sense but unfortunately most people are idiots and don't seem to understand that. If they were told 6 months ago people wouldn't have booked and the airline gone 6 months ago .....
Monarchs future has always been in the balance, while everyone seems to congratulate them on being great pilots and wonderful cabin crew I'm not sure that's enough. We didn't actively look to fly with them but when we did you could aWays expect a cheerful pilot that you can actually understand, the cabin crew were sometimes a bit hit or miss though.
Monarch were way behind in terms of mobile boarding cards, the planes were cramped but the plus point was they were always nice inside, our last flight being March 17 but without extra legroom I couldn't have managed it, luckily monarch were one of the only airlines to have a couple of rows of extra legroom seats.
The likes of Ryanair and Easyjet were always going to win the low cost battle, they are cheap and ultimately that's what the customer wants, they couldn't give a toss about nice crew and maintained planes, they are efficient in how they operate and if monarch could not compete then they must have very high staff and business costs.
Ryan air and easyJet reallly do care about maintenance. Not only does poor maintenance cost money in terms of delays and cancellations, if it gets to the stage that it affects public perception the that is a very bad thing.Monarchs future has always been in the balance, while everyone seems to congratulate them on being great pilots and wonderful cabin crew I'm not sure that's enough. We didn't actively look to fly with them but when we did you could aWays expect a cheerful pilot that you can actually understand, the cabin crew were sometimes a bit hit or miss though.
Monarch were way behind in terms of mobile boarding cards, the planes were cramped but the plus point was they were always nice inside, our last flight being March 17 but without extra legroom I couldn't have managed it, luckily monarch were one of the only airlines to have a couple of rows of extra legroom seats.
The likes of Ryanair and Easyjet were always going to win the low cost battle, they are cheap and ultimately that's what the customer wants, they couldn't give a toss about nice crew and maintained planes, they are efficient in how they operate and if monarch could not compete then they must have very high staff and business costs.
tigerkoi said:
Continental in the early nineties
Anyone interested in this should read the classic HBR case study. Although it's somewhat self-congratulatory, being written by the turnaround consultant, it's an interesting insight into how these turnarounds can work.https://hbr.org/1998/09/right-away-and-all-at-once...
NickCQ said:
tigerkoi said:
Continental in the early nineties
Anyone interested in this should read the classic HBR case study. Although it's somewhat self-congratulatory, being written by the turnaround consultant, it's an interesting insight into how these turnarounds can work.https://hbr.org/1998/09/right-away-and-all-at-once...
Spotted the 'doom loop' reference which then got me on a wild goose chase to see if Continental was also actively referenced in "How the Mighty Fall..." by Collins.
Always enjoy a good restructuring story - such an antidote to listening to some of these CEOs with their grand visions which are merely built on papier mache reality.
Greybull seem to be shooting a line of blanks though. I get the feeling that a heavier PE hitter would swerve some of the bets they've been taking on.
Chrisgr31 said:
Countdown said:
I may have misheard but on R5 they seemed to be suggesting that a lot of Qatar planes were sat around in the UKmdoing nothing because of the flight restrictions imposed on them by the Saudis....
This was mentioned a few months ago when BA chartered some Qatar planes to cover some they would have had to cancel due to BA strikes. Broadly the story was that snactions on Qatar by various arab states meant they had a lot of planes going nowhere so could be chartered with crew by BA, seems like the sanctions are still in place.
steve-5snwi said:
Sorry, i should have read what i typed. I didn't mean Ryanair/Easy skimp on maintenance more that Monarch had the Engineering facility, that ironically was the only part that made money.
The engineering is still going https://www.monarchaircraftengineering.com/news/mo...There's a photo of the Monarch aircraft at Newquay in this thread http://aviationforall.proboards.com/thread/9407/3-...
As a side note I flew from Newquay to Gatwick and back last week (as a passenger) for the first time, quite enjoyable
As a side note I flew from Newquay to Gatwick and back last week (as a passenger) for the first time, quite enjoyable
kurt535 said:
Was told by an ex BA driver last night Monarch allegedly had mob links for many years till the north african market went belly up. i said ehhhhhhhh???????????
That'll be scuttlebutt about the previous owners, the Mantegazza family who are Swiss/Italians and there have been rumours about the roginial source of their wealth for a long time. Rumours of gun running during WW1 and lots of other nonsense. Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff