RE: Ford Focus RS: PH Fleet

RE: Ford Focus RS: PH Fleet

Thursday 8th December 2016

Ford Focus RS: PH Fleet

Winter roads are here; is the Focus RS in its element in the elements though?



Luck would have it I pulled rank and bagged the Focus just as the weather took a turn for the seasonal. A perfect opportunity for the Focus to show going all-wheel drive is about more than just drifting.

Before I get to that though, some quick practical observations. I know it's actually against the rules to write about this car and not slag the seats off for being mounted too high but I've not found myself as irritated by it as some. Which is odd because my reflex action when getting in any car is to try and slam the seat down to the floor.

Yes, that is real snow!
Yes, that is real snow!
Bigger practical problems as I see it are the pitiful luggage space from the raised boot floor and the appalling visibility. I guess the latter will be true of any current Focus; the latter probably won't be but for those with family clutter to shift around the RS is severely limited. Another vote for the Civic if these things matter to you!

Anyway, there are more interesting things to talk about! With long-suffering snapper Sim shivering behind his Nikon I was keen to see how the Focus dealt with the kind of roads that it should, by rights, devour. The kind of roads the Subarus and Evos of a few years back would have ruled supreme; the ones with odd cambers, evil bumps, mixed surfaces and - at this time of year - not a whole lot of grip.

I have to say, I wasn't quite as relaxed in the Focus as I expected. Even with the dampers decoupled into the softer setting the chassis is pretty aggressive, the body control excellent and damping very good but the general set-up perhaps a little too sharp on properly bumpy roads. Combine that with really fast, pointy steering and I was surprised how nervy I felt.

Mostly at home here; not perfect though
Mostly at home here; not perfect though
I think the weight has a lot to do with it too. To keep that mass in check the spring and damper rates have to be pretty fierce and generally do a good job. But over rapid fire bumps or on roads with unhelpful cambers you feel the inertia through quick direction changes and it just doesn't flow in the way a lighter car like a Megane or Civic manages. Generally it's good at hammering the road into submission but if the surface fights back the Focus suddenly feels a little on tip toes. I know I'm a bit of a Subaru fanboy but on the same roads and in similar conditions my (supposedly outdated) WRX STI long termer felt a lot more confidence inspiring, and that wasn't exactly a cushy car in terms of spring and damper set-up or significantly lighter overall. That lack of visibility and the top-heavy feeling from the seating position (there, I said it...) are, I suspect, factors in why the Focus has you backing out of it where in a rally rep you'd be getting on it.

Old dogs can still teach RS new tricks
Old dogs can still teach RS new tricks
It's much better on smoother, wider roads. And massively entertaining on the slithery roundabouts that punctuate the mid-section of my drive down from the north. I love the way the front end is so pointy and that adding more throttle simply encourages the rotation into the corner before tracing a diagonal line out of it. We're used to hot hatches that can be adjusted by coming off the throttle. But the Focus responds to more positive applications, the more so at this time of year. You can see it in the pictures Sim shot from up on the moors; it's not going massively sideways or likely to inspire further outbursts from our sweary Australian friend. Just very obviously not understeering, in keeping with the promise made by development boss Tyrone Johnson.

I learned more on how it does this from a chat with a nice chap from GKN Driveline, which supplies and helped develop the Twinster all-wheel drive system for the Focus RS. If you're into your geekery and want to know more about how it works differently from the Haldex-based systems used by most rivals it's a really interesting chat (well, I thought so). I'll be posting the GoPro'd conversation in its entirety soon.


FACT SHEET
Car
: 2016 Ford Focus RS
Run by: It's basically the PH office bike...
On fleet since: September 2016
Mileage: 16,855 (delivered on 10,919)
List price new: £35,315 (Basic list of £31,000 plus £745 for Nitrous Blue paint, £1,000 for Luxury Pack, £595 for forged alloy wheels, £1,145 for Recaro shell seats, £465 for SYNC2, £85 for door edge protector and £100 for colour coded brake calipers
Last month at a glance: Can the Focus brighten up the winter gloom?

Previous reports:
Three months with a Focus RS then; best make them count!
First service and a meeting with the ancestors







   
Author
Discussion

Onehp

Original Poster:

1,617 posts

283 months

Thursday 8th December 2016
quotequote all
I'd have one if they made an estate version that wasn't heavier...

anonymous-user

54 months

Thursday 8th December 2016
quotequote all
It seems to me that this latest crop of hatches have gone backwards. In sheer ability, paper ability that is, there is no arguing with the numbers. They may lap a certain airfield very rapidly and be faster than a decade old supercar but what about the basics? Surely a modern road going rally rep should be pretty handy in the mostly moist setting, we hardly live in desert! No, it just seems like the mainstream and mainstream buyers don't seem to give much of a though to having fun. On the right day with a few spare sets of tyres I bet you cold drift away a whole afternoon, but what about that slippery wet road which you want to have a bit of a giggle down without seeing bonkers speeds?

The world's gone mad. Too heavy, too much power.

ilovequo

775 posts

181 months

Thursday 8th December 2016
quotequote all
Pistonheads & Evo journalists are becoming ever more anal in their criticism of cars...
They'll always find fault with something to justify their existence

ilovequo

775 posts

181 months

Thursday 8th December 2016
quotequote all
Pistonheads & Evo journalists are becoming ever more anal in their criticism of cars...
They'll always find fault with something to justify their existence

Loyly

17,996 posts

159 months

Thursday 8th December 2016
quotequote all
So, not as good as a 15 year old Impreza or Lancer Evolution? Well done Ford!

Yipper

5,964 posts

90 months

Thursday 8th December 2016
quotequote all
There seems to be something of a backlash emerging against the Focus RS Mk3. Journalists went mad about it at launch... but many or most posters are now quite negative on it.

vertastic

81 posts

222 months

Thursday 8th December 2016
quotequote all
Loyly said:
So, not as good as a 15 year old Impreza or Lancer Evolution? Well done Ford!
This doesn't make the RS a bad car - Imprezas and Lancers from 15 years ago were just brilliant and still are

acme

2,971 posts

198 months

Thursday 8th December 2016
quotequote all
Yipper said:
There seems to be something of a backlash emerging against the Focus RS Mk3. Journalists went mad about it at launch... but many or most posters are now quite negative on it.
Like many I've followed its arrival with interest, such is the coverage that you couldn't avoid it. But like you I've noticed some aren't as encouraging as they were, Evo certainly commenting as such and in specific references to the Civic.

Robert-lhcbq

58 posts

88 months

Thursday 8th December 2016
quotequote all
I just don't get this obsession with the RS's weight.

Are you saying that a 80kg passenger and some luggage in the civic type R ruins the driving experience for you as now the mass of the car isn't optimised for the damping? Are you really that good that you can notice the difference on a 8/10 B road blast?

Also of note:

2002 E46 M3, 343hp and a curb weight of 1549kg
2016 Mk3 RS, 350hp and a curb weight of 1547kg (don't know where 1599 comes from)

One is a hero, with never a mention of its weight in any review (also note, the 2002/3 autocar review of the m3 hilariously mentions that the seats are mounted too high because of the electric motors)

The other is too heavy and has seats that are too high even though you can order ones that are low and supportive and save you circa £1100!




PorkRind

3,053 posts

205 months

Thursday 8th December 2016
quotequote all
Erm so wheres the info on the Twinster all-wheel drive system?


anonymous-user

54 months

Thursday 8th December 2016
quotequote all
Robert-lhcbq said:
I just don't get this obsession with the RS's weight.

Are you saying that a 80kg passenger and some luggage in the civic type R ruins the driving experience for you as now the mass of the car isn't optimised for the damping? Are you really that good that you can notice the difference on a 8/10 B road blast?

Also of note:

2002 E46 M3, 343hp and a curb weight of 1549kg
2016 Mk3 RS, 350hp and a curb weight of 1547kg (don't know where 1599 comes from)

One is a hero, with never a mention of its weight in any review (also note, the 2002/3 autocar review of the m3 hilariously mentions that the seats are mounted too high because of the electric motors)

The other is too heavy and has seats that are too high even though you can order ones that are low and supportive and save you circa £1100!
It's a slightly different proposition really, wouldn't you say? RWD little in the way of electronics and a straight 6 vs the most modern of uber 4WD hatches? It's a huge lump for a hatchback, all modern cars in general suffer the same fate. Why on earth would you bring an E46 into the debate anyway, it is a car that still has to be hustled around and as you point out it's no lightweight. I'll bet it's more complaint (on the smaller wheels) and much more fun, using lower limits, in the wet than most modern cars. My perception of the 3 series was always a fast GT car, not a hot hatch.

IME more profile on the tyres, softer damping giving more grip on real roads and less of an obsession with meaningless lap times would make most cars 'better'

FN2TypeR

7,091 posts

93 months

Thursday 8th December 2016
quotequote all
PorkRind said:
Erm so wheres the info on the Twinster all-wheel drive system?
He said he'd post it soon. Last line of the review.

PorkRind

3,053 posts

205 months

Thursday 8th December 2016
quotequote all
FN2TypeR said:
He said he'd post it soon. Last line of the review.
Facepalm.

booones

22 posts

201 months

Thursday 8th December 2016
quotequote all
I feel I'm quite well positioned to comment on this - I still own a 2012 STI, having driven over 120,000KM in it. I have also now done over 7,000KM in my RS. What Dan says is highly subjective. I drive on pot-holed, bumpy back roads all the time and the RS always retains its composure - something that cannot be said of my STI. I will reiterate what a lot of reviews have said - the torque vectoring effect is very noticeable and makes the car feel much lighter than it really is. Drive an STI back-to-back with an RS and you will have nowhere near the confidence in the front end of the STI and you really have to push through some understeer. This means that you have to drive much harder in the STI to feel the car working with you - it more often than not feels like it is too safe at road speeds (particularly around an un-sighted corner when you cannot apply a bootful). The RS, on the same corner under the same conditions, feels like it is working with you.
Dan's long-term STI did have the quicker steering-rack than on my 2012 model tho - is that a big enough change for the STI to take the fight to the RS? All I can say is that from my experience, the RS moves the game on.....significantly.

JMF894

5,501 posts

155 months

Thursday 8th December 2016
quotequote all
booones said:
I feel I'm quite well positioned to comment on this - I still own a 2012 STI, having driven over 120,000KM in it. I have also now done over 7,000KM in my RS. What Dan says is highly subjective. I drive on pot-holed, bumpy back roads all the time and the RS always retains its composure - something that cannot be said of my STI. I will reiterate what a lot of reviews have said - the torque vectoring effect is very noticeable and makes the car feel much lighter than it really is. Drive an STI back-to-back with an RS and you will have nowhere near the confidence in the front end of the STI and you really have to push through some understeer. This means that you have to drive much harder in the STI to feel the car working with you - it more often than not feels like it is too safe at road speeds (particularly around an un-sighted corner when you cannot apply a bootful). The RS, on the same corner under the same conditions, feels like it is working with you.
Dan's long-term STI did have the quicker steering-rack than on my 2012 model tho - is that a big enough change for the STI to take the fight to the RS? All I can say is that from my experience, the RS moves the game on.....significantly.
Thanks for this. This is the kind of info people can take really seriously as it is straightforward honesty from an owner with something he can compare it to.

Out of interest when deciding on the RS did you ever consider/test drive the CTR?


booones

22 posts

201 months

Thursday 8th December 2016
quotequote all
JMF894 said:
Thanks for this. This is the kind of info people can take really seriously as it is straightforward honesty from an owner with something he can compare it to.

Out of interest when deciding on the RS did you ever consider/test drive the CTR?
Happy to help. Seriously considered the CTR, was very excited to see it at the motorshow in Geneva back in 2014. Amazing seats, huge boot, wanted to love it. But then I test drove a Golf R and a Megane Trophy. The Megane just felt special, and despite trying to avoid reviews (so that I could make my own decision) I ended up concluding that the CTR wouldn't be as good as the Trophy. So then I arranged a back-to-back test drive between an RS and a Trophy (with four hours of driving between them...in my Lotus Elise, so hardly a chore :-P ). The Trophy was great, but at test drive speeds I did not get the same sensations as from the RS. Honestly, the torque vectoring is very noticeable - particularly if you are generally driving slow-in, faster-through a corner.

Am still very much considering going to drive the CTR to see if I could fall for it within a 30 minute test drive. Four wheel drive is a big positive for me as I live close to the mountains, but I would be happy to fit chains on a FWD car if it was special enough (hence umming and ahhing over a Trophy). The change was because I felt the genre had come on so far from the 2012 Scooby that I'd be mad to miss out on some fun motoring in a practical package.

I just count ourselves lucky that somehow extreme hot hatches have become a thing! It's probably difficult to make a bad buying decision in this sector right now....

JMF894

5,501 posts

155 months

Thursday 8th December 2016
quotequote all
booones said:
Happy to help. Seriously considered the CTR, was very excited to see it at the motorshow in Geneva back in 2014. Amazing seats, huge boot, wanted to love it. But then I test drove a Golf R and a Megane Trophy. The Megane just felt special, and despite trying to avoid reviews (so that I could make my own decision) I ended up concluding that the CTR wouldn't be as good as the Trophy. So then I arranged a back-to-back test drive between an RS and a Trophy (with four hours of driving between them...in my Lotus Elise, so hardly a chore :-P ). The Trophy was great, but at test drive speeds I did not get the same sensations as from the RS. Honestly, the torque vectoring is very noticeable - particularly if you are generally driving slow-in, faster-through a corner.

Am still very much considering going to drive the CTR to see if I could fall for it within a 30 minute test drive. Four wheel drive is a big positive for me as I live close to the mountains, but I would be happy to fit chains on a FWD car if it was special enough (hence umming and ahhing over a Trophy). The change was because I felt the genre had come on so far from the 2012 Scooby that I'd be mad to miss out on some fun motoring in a practical package.

I just count ourselves lucky that somehow extreme hot hatches have become a thing! It's probably difficult to make a bad buying decision in this sector right now....
Really appreciate this. Now that my divorce has come through I really want to change the Leon FR (it's done it's job). I could have a Megane of some description now but what I really really want is the CTR. Previous experience makes me apprehensive at the prospect of secondhand ownership of a Renault (any info from owners welcome on this point) and I'm not yet in a position to rip my soul out and hand it over to get the Civic. Must wait........................



Dan Trent

1,866 posts

168 months

Thursday 8th December 2016
quotequote all
FN2TypeR said:
PorkRind said:
Erm so wheres the info on the Twinster all-wheel drive system?
He said he'd post it soon. Last line of the review.
Careful what you wish for - it is properly geeky stuff but if you're into that kind of thing hopefully interesting. I found it so.

Watch this space!

Dan

Dan Trent

1,866 posts

168 months

Thursday 8th December 2016
quotequote all
booones said:
I feel I'm quite well positioned to comment on this - I still own a 2012 STI, having driven over 120,000KM in it. I have also now done over 7,000KM in my RS. What Dan says is highly subjective. I drive on pot-holed, bumpy back roads all the time and the RS always retains its composure - something that cannot be said of my STI. I will reiterate what a lot of reviews have said - the torque vectoring effect is very noticeable and makes the car feel much lighter than it really is. Drive an STI back-to-back with an RS and you will have nowhere near the confidence in the front end of the STI and you really have to push through some understeer. This means that you have to drive much harder in the STI to feel the car working with you - it more often than not feels like it is too safe at road speeds (particularly around an un-sighted corner when you cannot apply a bootful). The RS, on the same corner under the same conditions, feels like it is working with you.
Dan's long-term STI did have the quicker steering-rack than on my 2012 model tho - is that a big enough change for the STI to take the fight to the RS? All I can say is that from my experience, the RS moves the game on.....significantly.
Great feedback and really interesting to read; certainly 'my' WRX STI had much more front end than any Subaru I've driven previously and a much more aggressive set-up all round. A much pointier car than traditional for the brand.

You are bang on about the confidence gained by knowing the RS will rotate into the corner on the throttle and this - and the lack of understeer - do open options no other car of this type (other than perhaps some of the more aggressive Evos) have offered before. It's very accessible too, which is what I was saying about the behaviour on those roundabouts I hit on my commute.

It's simplistic to say the Subaru is old-school and the Focus new-school and they each have strengths - and quirks - of their own ready to be exploited as you gain familiarity and confidence in the way they do things. And they're both fast, fun and interesting to drive, especially at this time of year. I love the way they give you so many options for tackling the same corner. Your points are both interesting and bang on in their observations too and really interesting to hear given your direct experience of both cars. Thanks for sharing!

All I can say is on the specific test route I use a lot - up around Saddleworth Moor - I had less confidence in the Focus than I would have done in the Subaru in the same conditions. It wasn't to do with the traction or behaviour on the throttle but more the spring/damper settings, the twitchiness of the steering, the sense the weight wasn't being contained and also a lack of confidence from not being able to place the car as accurately. As I say, I was backing out where in the Subaru I'd have been flat on it.

I am being picky because I like the RS a lot and it lays down a formidable challenge to everything else at its price point, Subaru included. World would be a much duller place without it!

Cheers,

Dan

booones

22 posts

201 months

Thursday 8th December 2016
quotequote all
Interesting to read your last points Dan. When I read stuff like this, I think about the fact the RS has light-weight forged wheels and Michelin super sports straight from the factory and wonder what a difference they would make to the STI. My STI has been very sensitive to tyres - this despite the fact I think it has almost zero steering feel. Truth is, I often find myself taking two bites of the cherry to try and place the STI where I want to - where-as with the RS the fact it is more throttle-adjustable means I don't have to correct only with the steering.
With these cars, most of my driving is on the road. In 4 and a half years driving the STI I have only once had that delicious moment of all four tyres scrabbling for grip and yet still moving forwards. Once! In the RS, I have felt the outside rear just over rotating a few times already. I am not a driving god either behind a keyboard or on the road, but I do actively go looking for that kind of thing when on a spirited drive. I think the sheer accessibility of the Ford is what has won it a place in my heart. Plus I live close to a large gravel car park!
By the way, mine is on 18 inch Team Dynamics wheels and winter tyres (Michelin Alpin PA4s) at the moment. I think the smaller wheels have smoothed out the secondary ride around town somewhat, but I can't really tell a difference when pressing on in terms of performance from the tyre. Maybe I'm not trying hard enough....!

Edited by booones on Thursday 8th December 17:56