How to fix the Southern Rail dispute?
Discussion
The railways need to modernise but, on Southern, the (strong) unions think that safety will be compromised if the safety-critical role of the guard is replaced with an 'On Board Supervisor'. What they have failed to properly explain is how 'Thameslink' have operated the same type of train, on the same lines, without a guard for many years !
question on this: I read a couple of articles about it this morning - am I reading correctly that 'normal' service only works with people doing overtime, and that even with no strike, if staff work to only core contracted hours that the service is effectively crippled? - or did I misread/misunderstand?
phatmanace said:
question on this: I read a couple of articles about it this morning - am I reading correctly that 'normal' service only works with people doing overtime, and that even with no strike, if staff work to only core contracted hours that the service is effectively crippled? - or did I misread/misunderstand?
You'll find it's not that uncommon throughout the rail industry. TOCs like it as it's considerably cheaper than employing more drivers and staff can earn overtime if they wish and when things are normal it can be win-win for all concerned.Problems start when,for instance, there's a severe bout of sickness and more drivers are off than can be covered with overtime and when industrial relations breakdown, it's easy to put pressure on management by refusing to do overtime whilst not affecting your core pay. I think it was a midland TOC that ran it's entire Sunday through overtime (not the only one) and staff simply refused to volunteer to work due to a dispute and not a single train ran with nothing the company could do.
Personally, I find it incredibly shortsighted of the TOCs to do this as it is just a money saving exercise and does no one any favours in the long run but some TOCs can't see beyond the length of their franchise to do anything about it.
I don't know enough about unionisation to have an informed opinion on this. But from my perspective I find it ridiculous that thousands of passengers can be held to ransom for months, creating absolute misery and chaos, with very little alternative for those who rely on that trainline everyday, because the staff won't do their job (albeit it because of strike action) and this is allowed to go on without resolution for over half a year.
Judging by reliability and lateness stats it seems that Southern Rail is an incompetent organisation. However, I'm not so sure about this specific issue.
I don't buy the idea that removing the conductor is a safety issue or will adversely impact passengers. In the long-term it might put pressure on jobs though... Future press release: "Southern Rail announce that due to improved CCTV on trains and electronic barriers at stations, only 25% of trains will now have train managers aboard."
As a strategic move by the union it's probably the right one to protect their members in the long term.
Southern Rail really should be able to do a deal that's acceptable to both sides and continue to run a profitable franchise.
I don't buy the idea that removing the conductor is a safety issue or will adversely impact passengers. In the long-term it might put pressure on jobs though... Future press release: "Southern Rail announce that due to improved CCTV on trains and electronic barriers at stations, only 25% of trains will now have train managers aboard."
As a strategic move by the union it's probably the right one to protect their members in the long term.
Southern Rail really should be able to do a deal that's acceptable to both sides and continue to run a profitable franchise.
I am not sure on the issue of removing guards, on our local line to London most of the smaller stations are unmanned for much of the day so who is going to assist disabled people to get on trains and move the ramps etc. It seems that in many big rail crashes the driver is usually killed so who is going to be there to offer any guidance if the worst happens?
Greshamst said:
I don't know enough about unionisation to have an informed opinion on this. But from my perspective I find it ridiculous that thousands of passengers can be held to ransom for months, creating absolute misery and chaos, with very little alternative for those who rely on that trainline everyday, because the staff won't do their job (albeit it because of strike action) and this is allowed to go on without resolution for over half a year.
What about the misery and chaos experienced when the staff weren't on strike?Southern have been a shambles for far too long, there is no doubt, but to lay the blame solely on the unions is far too simplistic. Both Govia and the DfT are as much to blame for this omnishambles.
There is another Southern thread on here that goes into much more detail and we're at risk of repeating the same arguments so I'd suggest you have a read.
Robertj21a said:
What they have failed to properly explain is how 'Thameslink' have operated the same type of train, on the same lines, without a guard for many years !
Dockland Light Railway does not even have drivers. What happens when we get self driving cars, will we need a guard every time we want to go somewhere? Cotty said:
Dockland Light Railway does not even have drivers. What happens when we get self driving cars, will we need a guard every time we want to go somewhere?
No drivers but there is a passenger service agent aboard every dlr train and as we found out a year or two back, if they go on strike there is no dlr.Sump said:
The easiest solution is to start cutting the employees and heavily invest in automation / wizardry to replace them. There can't be progression if any time we advance someone on minimum wage strikes to hold it back.
Great idea, cut the number of employees, of which there isn't enough of to run the service now, unlessthe staff do overtime.
greygoose said:
I am not sure on the issue of removing guards, on our local line to London most of the smaller stations are unmanned for much of the day so who is going to assist disabled people to get on trains and move the ramps etc. It seems that in many big rail crashes the driver is usually killed so who is going to be there to offer any guidance if the worst happens?
There will still be a second staff member on the train, they just won't be responsible for opertating the doors.gooner1 said:
Sump said:
The easiest solution is to start cutting the employees and heavily invest in automation / wizardry to replace them. There can't be progression if any time we advance someone on minimum wage strikes to hold it back.
Great idea, cut the number of employees, of which there isn't enough of to run the service now, unlessthe staff do overtime.
Sump said:
gooner1 said:
Sump said:
The easiest solution is to start cutting the employees and heavily invest in automation / wizardry to replace them. There can't be progression if any time we advance someone on minimum wage strikes to hold it back.
Great idea, cut the number of employees, of which there isn't enough of to run the service now, unlessthe staff do overtime.
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff