How to fix the Southern Rail dispute?
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Niks post covers it perfectly.If Aslef had some agenda to maintain under-establishment staffing levels they'd never have called an end to rest day working at one of the biggest TOCs for almost 2 years for example.
More drivers means more potential members and it really is as simple as that.
The 'railway' really is an industrial exception in most parts and takes some getting used to - ASLEF, the main union of the drivers rarely get involved in petty politics, are normally quite rational but when a fight is announced it's usually quite bloody.
Robertj21a said:
......but I suppose that ASLEF promising '10 years of strikes' wasn't spoiling for a fight ?
No and you know it.It was a retort to yet another mealy mouthed, sly Tory arse playing little games - a reply to a question like "the Governemnt aren't budging so what do you think will happen?".
An opening gambit in what was supposed to be a private meeting but I suppose it makes good headlines for those looking to kick a lefty.
Now, back to the spotters forum with you please
Never thought I'd ever find myself agreeing with a Green MP....
legzr1 said:
No and you know it.
It was a retort to yet another mealy mouthed, sly Tory arse playing little games - a reply to a question like "the Governemnt aren't budging so what do you think will happen?".
An opening gambit in what was supposed to be a private meeting but I suppose it makes good headlines for those looking to kick a lefty.
Now, back to the spotters forum with you please
Never thought I'd ever find myself agreeing with a Green MP....
No, I didn't know it - why should I ?It was a retort to yet another mealy mouthed, sly Tory arse playing little games - a reply to a question like "the Governemnt aren't budging so what do you think will happen?".
An opening gambit in what was supposed to be a private meeting but I suppose it makes good headlines for those looking to kick a lefty.
Now, back to the spotters forum with you please
Never thought I'd ever find myself agreeing with a Green MP....
Whatever the prompt (and I have no reason to believe your version of events), it seems an incredibly naive thing to say to someone who you may have to work with on a regular basis and who may well be able to affect the job security of union members.
Why should I be going on a spotters forum ? - are you unable to accept objective statements ?
Robertj21a said:
No, I didn't know it - why should I ?
Whatever the prompt (and I have no reason to believe your version of events), it seems an incredibly naive thing to say to someone who you may have to work with on a regular basis and who may well be able to affect the job security of union members.
Why should I be going on a spotters forum ? - are you unable to accept objective statements ?
You honestly expect me to believe you didn't know?Whatever the prompt (and I have no reason to believe your version of events), it seems an incredibly naive thing to say to someone who you may have to work with on a regular basis and who may well be able to affect the job security of union members.
Why should I be going on a spotters forum ? - are you unable to accept objective statements ?
Well, ok then...
The 'prompt' is all important as is the way it was delivered and the reason it was said - don't believe me, go look for the clip,on sky or BBC where the Gen Sec tells all.
Naive to believe a Government minister will keep to his word when a private meeting becomes general knowledge?
Biased much?
Grayling is a nasty puppet with strings being pulled by nastier officials playing the typical Tory game - either you can't see that or won't accept it.
Not sure which.
You should go to the spotters forum as that's where I first read your wonderful posts - there a fair chance that's where you'll get your answers too (or, at least the answers you want to hear)
Have fun
legzr1 said:
You honestly expect me to believe you didn't know?
Well, ok then...
The 'prompt' is all important as is the way it was delivered and the reason it was said - don't believe me, go look for the clip,on sky or BBC where the Gen Sec tells all.
Naive to believe a Government minister will keep to his word when a private meeting becomes general knowledge?
Biased much?
Grayling is a nasty puppet with strings being pulled by nastier officials playing the typical Tory game - either you can't see that or won't accept it.
Not sure which.
You should go to the spotters forum as that's where I first read your wonderful posts - there a fair chance that's where you'll get your answers too (or, at least the answers you want to hear)
Have fun
Thank you for that additional clarification, which I will check out. If you don't mind me saying, you do seem to go into rant mode rather easily - usually applicable to those people who can only see one point of view. I was hoping to have a reasonable debate on the subject (as others on here seem to manage) but I accept that a more blinkered view cuts out unwanted issues.Well, ok then...
The 'prompt' is all important as is the way it was delivered and the reason it was said - don't believe me, go look for the clip,on sky or BBC where the Gen Sec tells all.
Naive to believe a Government minister will keep to his word when a private meeting becomes general knowledge?
Biased much?
Grayling is a nasty puppet with strings being pulled by nastier officials playing the typical Tory game - either you can't see that or won't accept it.
Not sure which.
You should go to the spotters forum as that's where I first read your wonderful posts - there a fair chance that's where you'll get your answers too (or, at least the answers you want to hear)
Have fun
tight5 said:
As I have said on a different thread, the government are behind this and a LOT of other things going on with the railway.If you think the Southern Railway issue is bad you'd better hold onto your hats soon.
Southern Railway, Scotrail and other disputes are being used to bankrupt ASLEF to stop any industrial action !
The banks screw up and get bailed out.
The government are messing with the railways and the WHOLE of the country is gonna be messed up !
I am (currently) a driver and Legzr1 is, too.
Neither of us work for SR.
Tight5 and Legzr1 while I sympathize with your position as drivers the problem with discussions in places like this is that youre going to encounter commuters head on who will inevitably have a different view to yours because they will see it as you and others that are stopping them getting to work, making them late etc etc.
The government is trying to do what Tory governments have done in the past with unions and that is get them into a position where they are weakened to the point where they become irrelevant.
So, how exactly would you guys solve this issue? costs need to be reduced to stop fares spiralling out of control (many people would say they already have) and we want a reliable, clean and decent train service. On the flip side there is finite money in the pot. If you were the government or southern rail what would you do? Interested to hear a coherent and thought through counter plan whereas all ive seen on here and in the press really is people throwing stones at why the proposed plans wont work.
The government is trying to do what Tory governments have done in the past with unions and that is get them into a position where they are weakened to the point where they become irrelevant.
So, how exactly would you guys solve this issue? costs need to be reduced to stop fares spiralling out of control (many people would say they already have) and we want a reliable, clean and decent train service. On the flip side there is finite money in the pot. If you were the government or southern rail what would you do? Interested to hear a coherent and thought through counter plan whereas all ive seen on here and in the press really is people throwing stones at why the proposed plans wont work.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I could be a bit wrong but I was under the impression that the reason it was objected to have a single seat in the cab was because there was no provision for an instructor (or manager for that matter).As has been said before, most of a drivers training takes place out on the road with an instructor obviously present. As the instructor is totally responsible for the trainee's actions it stands to reason that they must sit in a position where they can react in time to the trainees's errors.
craigjm said:
Tight5 and Legzr1 while I sympathize with your position as drivers the problem with discussions in places like this is that youre going to encounter commuters head on who will inevitably have a different view to yours because they will see it as you and others that are stopping them getting to work, making them late etc etc.
Doubt it, mate !We don't do self loading cargo !
What would we do ?
The obvious answer is renationalise.
Get shot of the overwhelming need to make a profit at ALL expense.
Get managers in that know the railway, or at least their little bit of it.
Currently my managers are ex RN submarines and an ex wagon fitter.
The view that the unions want overtime with not enough staff is, quite frankly, ridiculous.
If you want a safe train journey, you don't want your driver absolutely knackered.
OK so we hear this about renationalisation over and over again.
Was the service, clean, reliable, effective, efficient, well run, reasonably cost effective when it was a nationalised service? What makes people think that simply bringing it back into public ownership will protect it from under investment and all of the other issues that it currently suffers?
Was the service, clean, reliable, effective, efficient, well run, reasonably cost effective when it was a nationalised service? What makes people think that simply bringing it back into public ownership will protect it from under investment and all of the other issues that it currently suffers?
tight5 said:
The view that the unions want overtime with not enough staff is, quite frankly, ridiculous.
If you want a safe train journey, you don't want your driver absolutely knackered.
I would certainly agree with that but how attractive would the job be with no overtime ever so everyone was on a fixed salaryIf you want a safe train journey, you don't want your driver absolutely knackered.
If a passenger company bails out or breaches a contract, they effectively become a nationalised company until someone else takes it over.
The government has a very large say as to what trains a company can buy.
Ticket prices ? Do we not think profit plays a part in that ?
Look, I'm just a train driver. All I want from my managers is to be as good at their job as I am at mine !
Is that unreasonable ?
The government has a very large say as to what trains a company can buy.
Ticket prices ? Do we not think profit plays a part in that ?
Look, I'm just a train driver. All I want from my managers is to be as good at their job as I am at mine !
Is that unreasonable ?
craigjm said:
tight5 said:
The view that the unions want overtime with not enough staff is, quite frankly, ridiculous.
If you want a safe train journey, you don't want your driver absolutely knackered.
I would certainly agree with that but how attractive would the job be with no overtime ever so everyone was on a fixed salaryIf you want a safe train journey, you don't want your driver absolutely knackered.
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