F117s offered to RAF?

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Dr Jekyll

Original Poster:

23,820 posts

260 months

Tuesday 3rd January 2017
quotequote all
https://theaviationist.com/?p=40900

I've heard before that it was offered but only years after it was publicly revealed. It does seem odd that the US would offer to share the technology when it was still very secret.

williamp

19,213 posts

272 months

Tuesday 3rd January 2017
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Surprised yes, but the right decision with hindsight. The cost would have been massive, they are no longer flying wo th3 cost per year would have been huge. And in the 30 years since then, where would they have been an advantage over the Buccaneers, Harrier GR4, Tornado GR4 etc etc?? From what I read the latter in particular is very good at its job

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Tuesday 3rd January 2017
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Indeed - it would have lasted about as long as the Buccaneer, at a much higher price per hour, and wouldn't have been able to do the Bucc's trick of flying below everyone's guns.



Apparently it got more stable the faster you went. One of few planes where pulling up to lower the undercarriage was sometimes necessary.

Simpo Two

85,149 posts

264 months

Tuesday 3rd January 2017
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'Mr Weinberger has offered us a chance to purchase the current US aircraft but we have replied that we would not wish to actually buy hardware while the programme remains strictly black [secret].'

So we can only buy military hardware that's in the public domain? That's bloody stupid.

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Tuesday 3rd January 2017
quotequote all
Simpo Two]'Mr Weinberger has offered us a chance to purchase the current US aircraft but we have replied that we would not wish to actually buy hardware while the programme remains strictly black [secret said:
.'

So we can only buy military hardware that's in the public domain? That's bloody stupid.
I guess there would have been some pretty strict restrictions on where we were allowed to use them, to avoid the tech falling into enemy hands.

ukaskew

10,642 posts

220 months

Tuesday 3rd January 2017
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Could the RAF realistically operate a reasonable volume of manned craft that don't officially exist, as the USAF likes to do?

I assumed that was what was meant by not operating black aircraft. The UK might be able to handle the occasional secret visit under the cover of darkness, but operating a squadron seems impossible, I can't think of a practical airbase here not easily visible by the public.

The US has the geography and population spread to make that work remarkably successfully, even with the tech the average person has access to now, but doing it in the UK seems like a significant logistical challenge.

Edited by ukaskew on Tuesday 3rd January 23:30

ecsrobin

17,023 posts

164 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
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ukaskew said:
Could the RAF realistically operate a reasonable volume of manned craft that don't officially exist, as the USAF likes to do?

I assumed that was what was meant by not operating black aircraft. The UK might be able to handle the occasional secret visit under the cover of darkness, but operating a squadron seems impossible, I can't think of a practical airbase here not easily visible by the public.

The US has the geography and population spread to make that work remarkably successfully, even with the tech the average person has access to now, but doing it in the UK seems like a significant logistical challenge.

Edited by ukaskew on Tuesday 3rd January 23:30
Back then though we still had macrahanesh (sp?)

NM62

952 posts

149 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
quotequote all
ecsrobin said:
ukaskew said:
Could the RAF realistically operate a reasonable volume of manned craft that don't officially exist, as the USAF likes to do?

I assumed that was what was meant by not operating black aircraft. The UK might be able to handle the occasional secret visit under the cover of darkness, but operating a squadron seems impossible, I can't think of a practical airbase here not easily visible by the public.

The US has the geography and population spread to make that work remarkably successfully, even with the tech the average person has access to now, but doing it in the UK seems like a significant logistical challenge.

Edited by ukaskew on Tuesday 3rd January 23:30
Back then though we still had macrahanesh (sp?)
Back in the 80's a mate of mine was RAF ATCO at Macrahanish(sp) - guess what was rumoured to use the base occasionally....

WelshChris

1,173 posts

253 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
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Lots of interesting tales / rumours about Macrihanish - probably most of them rubbish unfortunately. The romantic in me wants them all to be true though smile

NM62

952 posts

149 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
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WelshChris said:
Lots of interesting tales / rumours about Macrihanish - probably most of them rubbish unfortunately. The romantic in me wants them all to be true though smile
Indeed - very remote airfield - I only visited on 3 occasions and it took ages to get there... well worth it though.

ATG

20,485 posts

271 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
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NM62 said:
WelshChris said:
Lots of interesting tales / rumours about Macrihanish - probably most of them rubbish unfortunately. The romantic in me wants them all to be true though smile
Indeed - very remote airfield - I only visited on 3 occasions and it took ages to get there... well worth it though.
Aurora, etc

RAF Machrihanish is not really in the middle of nowhere. It's just a pain in the arse to get to as it's at the southern end of the Kintyre peninsula, so you have to drive about 100 miles north of Glasgow before heading the same distance south. But it's very close to Campbelltown which is a fair sized place, and the airfield was used by civilian flights too, and it is overlooked by quite a few farmhouses on the surrounding hills, and you can get an excellent view of the airfield from public access land in the hills to its south. I did a bit of labouring up there when I was a student and the security was significantly more relaxed than at other MoD sites I'd been to which were officially doing research.

However even if there wasn't any alien technology being test flown there, I did see half a dozen blokes jump out of a helicopter into the sea to go for a long swim at silly o'clock in the morning. And the tight-lipped yank waiting to pick them up in a mini-bus refused to even acknowledge my existence when I asked if he could jump start my VW Polo, and that is clear proof that they were Ranger Delta Manatees ... cool story, bro, or what?

Mave

8,208 posts

214 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
quotequote all
Dr Jekyll said:
https://theaviationist.com/?p=40900

I've heard before that it was offered but only years after it was publicly revealed. It does seem odd that the US would offer to share the technology when it was still very secret.
It would be interesting to know what they were actually offering - the description of the UK changes compared to the original aircraft sound a bit Glen A Larson! :-o

NM62

952 posts

149 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
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ATG said:
NM62 said:
WelshChris said:
Lots of interesting tales / rumours about Macrihanish - probably most of them rubbish unfortunately. The romantic in me wants them all to be true though smile
Indeed - very remote airfield - I only visited on 3 occasions and it took ages to get there... well worth it though.
Aurora, etc

RAF Machrihanish is not really in the middle of nowhere. It's just a pain in the arse to get to as it's at the southern end of the Kintyre peninsula, so you have to drive about 100 miles north of Glasgow before heading the same distance south. But it's very close to Campbelltown which is a fair sized place, and the airfield was used by civilian flights too, and it is overlooked by quite a few farmhouses on the surrounding hills, and you can get an excellent view of the airfield from public access land in the hills to its south. I did a bit of labouring up there when I was a student and the security was significantly more relaxed than at other MoD sites I'd been to which were officially doing research.

However even if there wasn't any alien technology being test flown there, I did see half a dozen blokes jump out of a helicopter into the sea to go for a long swim at silly o'clock in the morning. And the tight-lipped yank waiting to pick them up in a mini-bus refused to even acknowledge my existence when I asked if he could jump start my VW Polo, and that is clear proof that they were Ranger Delta Manatees ... cool story, bro, or what?
Ah the old Sarcastic Dismissal. Which bit do you disbelieve?

I lived in Leeds, it took an age to get there, my mate was in the RAF, he was an ATCO, I visited three times and saw some good stuff ( not the Aurora or fake Special Ops members - I"ll leave you to work out what.

Dr Jekyll

Original Poster:

23,820 posts

260 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
quotequote all
If the F117 hadn't been officially revealed previously, would it still have been used in GW1?

ATG

20,485 posts

271 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
quotequote all
I'm not being sarcastic. I've been there. I've worked on site. I know the local area. And I saw the blokes jumping out of the helicopter into the sea and I was refused a jump start from the chap waiting to pick them up. It would be a hopeless place to house a squadron of classified aircraft.

NM62

952 posts

149 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
quotequote all
ATG said:
I'm not being sarcastic. I've been there. I've worked on site. I know the local area. And I saw the blokes jumping out of the helicopter into the sea and I was refused a jump start from the chap waiting to pick them up. It would be a hopeless place to house a squadron of classified aircraft.
My bad then - guess I misunderstood the "Cool Story Bro" bit.

Never said they housed a squadron of classified stuff there just on 3 separate occasions I saw what were (at the time) secretive aircraft there in the early 80's.

Dr Jekyll

Original Poster:

23,820 posts

260 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
quotequote all
NM62 said:
My bad then - guess I misunderstood the "Cool Story Bro" bit.

Never said they housed a squadron of classified stuff there just on 3 separate occasions I saw what were (at the time) secretive aircraft there in the early 80's.
Like what?

RobXjcoupe

3,151 posts

90 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
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The navy is getting new aircraft for the next aircraft carrier. 2020 or there abouts all rather secret ish Wales is currently a good place to view certain new types

ATG

20,485 posts

271 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
quotequote all
NM62 said:
ATG said:
I'm not being sarcastic. I've been there. I've worked on site. I know the local area. And I saw the blokes jumping out of the helicopter into the sea and I was refused a jump start from the chap waiting to pick them up. It would be a hopeless place to house a squadron of classified aircraft.
My bad then - guess I misunderstood the "Cool Story Bro" bit.

Never said they housed a squadron of classified stuff there just on 3 separate occasions I saw what were (at the time) secretive aircraft there in the early 80's.
Yeah, sorry, I was taking the piss out of myself. Should have made it clearer.

NM62

952 posts

149 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
quotequote all
Dr Jekyll said:
NM62 said:
My bad then - guess I misunderstood the "Cool Story Bro" bit.

Never said they housed a squadron of classified stuff there just on 3 separate occasions I saw what were (at the time) secretive aircraft there in the early 80's.
Like what?
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