F117s offered to RAF?
Discussion
ukaskew said:
Nanook said:
It's impressive that they were flying them for 8 years prior to that, and no one (hardly anyone) knew. Can you still hide things like that today, or have the internet and modern technology made that impossible, as well as the general complexity of such projects these days, and therefore the number of people that need to be in the know?
There have been some credible sightings (and interesting photos) of a large flying wing similar to the B-2 in the past few years. http://m.aviationweek.com/blog/mystery-aircraft-ov...The RQ170 was kept quiet for some time, although I guess UAVs are a bit easier.
Edited by ukaskew on Thursday 5th January 21:14
Didn't a Yugoslav Anti-Aircraft missile operator shoot down an F117A, despite all the expensive Stealth technology?
Edit: I remember one doing a "display" at the Southend airshow at about that time. It was the much-anticipated star of the weekend show that year. It did one fly-past and was never seen again. That's stealthy!
Edit: I remember one doing a "display" at the Southend airshow at about that time. It was the much-anticipated star of the weekend show that year. It did one fly-past and was never seen again. That's stealthy!
Edited by LotusOmega375D on Friday 6th January 16:33
LotusOmega375D said:
Didn't a Yugoslav Anti-Aircraft missile operator shoot down an F117A, despite all the expensive Stealth technology?
Edit: I remember one doing a "display" at the Southend airshow at about that time. It was the much-anticipated star of the weekend show that year. It did one fly-past and was never seen again. That's stealthy!
There is a good thread on this here:Edit: I remember one doing a "display" at the Southend airshow at about that time. It was the much-anticipated star of the weekend show that year. It did one fly-past and was never seen again. That's stealthy!
Edited by LotusOmega375D on Friday 6th January 16:33
https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/raf-turn...
Includes some info about the shoot down.
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
That's just it though, everyone did know! It was one of those open secret type things, everyone knew about it, but no one officially confirmed it existed.At our open day at RAF Valley in about 85 or 86 the Scheduled F111 couldn't make it at the last minute, so we changed the aircraft info board to say "Stealth fighter, no photos allowed" and stuck a couple of chocks out in the empty gap. I believe this sort of thing happened quite a lot at airshows of the time.
eccles said:
Nanook said:
It's impressive that they were flying them for 8 years prior to that, and no one (hardly anyone) knew.
That's just it though, everyone did know! It was one of those open secret type things, everyone knew about it, but no one officially confirmed it existed.At our open day at RAF Valley in about 85 or 86 the Scheduled F111 couldn't make it at the last minute, so we changed the aircraft info board to say "Stealth fighter, no photos allowed" and stuck a couple of chocks out in the empty gap. I believe this sort of thing happened quite a lot at airshows of the time.
The "spotters" knew where and when a lot of things were happening, we saw the U-2s and SR-71s that operated out of Mildenhall before they were confirmed by either UK or US governments in the late 70's and early 80's.
We had advanced knowledge of the deliveries of aircraft to various air arms (Israel, Saudi) and knew when and where they were staging through.
We had information from those who were in the RAF ( self included ) colleagues in the USA ( USAF, USN, US Army and Marines) and a network around the U.K. ( including the guys arrested in Greece ) and Europe.
We had UHF Radios and high powered telescopes / binoculars, quite often we had the films taken out of our cameras and even got arrested in France.
We were ready at the end of the runway when the support turned up at Mildenhall for the Libyan bombings - it certainly wasn't in the papers or on the news.
We also visited Macrahanish twice that year as I mentioned earlier, once just before Libya and one later, my first visit was to see a U-2 that had to divert there en route to Mildenhall in 81. The F-117's arrived and departed under the cover of darkness pretty much living up to their name (NightHawk).
As Eccles said a lot of shows put a stealth fighter display on Upper Heyford for one in 85 and there were also strong rumours that the F117 visited Upper Heyford too.
Edited by NM62 on Saturday 7th January 10:12
Dr Jekyll said:
768 said:
Dr Jekyll said:
It does seem odd that the US would offer to share the technology when it was still very secret.
The UK and US collaborate a lot. No great surprise, is it?US and UK exchange warhead designs, the last UK bomb tests taking place in Nevada and the formula for VX nerve gas was traded for hydrogen bomb design data.
I don't think there is a closer defence technology relationship, it only tends to break down on commercially exploitable stuff then the US will claim export control reasons for defence security!
LotusOmega375D said:
Didn't a Yugoslav Anti-Aircraft missile operator shoot down an F117A, despite all the expensive Stealth technology?
Edit: I remember one doing a "display" at the Southend airshow at about that time. It was the much-anticipated star of the weekend show that year. It did one fly-past and was never seen again. That's stealthy!
One reason why we probably didn't (if we ever were in that position) proceed. The jet, iirc, was detected at quite long range when it opened its bomb bay doors and was tracked quite easily on long-wave. Matters were made easier for the shooter because the airspace was so congested and represented where we would reasonably have been expected to have used them (Central Europe). Expensive, limited value, undoubtably the semi skimmed version.. why bother.Edit: I remember one doing a "display" at the Southend airshow at about that time. It was the much-anticipated star of the weekend show that year. It did one fly-past and was never seen again. That's stealthy!
Edited by LotusOmega375D on Friday 6th January 16:33
Ginge R said:
One reason why we probably didn't (if we ever were in that position) proceed. The jet, iirc, was detected at quite long range when it opened its bomb bay doors and was tracked quite easily on long-wave. Matters were made easier for the shooter because the airspace was so congested and represented where we would reasonably have been expected to have used them (Central Europe). Expensive, limited value, undoubtably the semi skimmed version.. why bother.
The F117 was a first attempt at something usable, and had the aerodynamic properties of a house brick. It was sort of like the UOR version of the F22.CraigyMc said:
tuffer said:
CraigyMc said:
That has to be a photoshop. It's always pissing with rain there.
Nope, we had 3 days like that.
In addition to the rain, the howling gales carry sea spray a long way. There was (is?) a hotel a few miles north of Machrihanish that had a Jag parked down the side. It couldn't have been more than five or six years old, but you could see daylight through the front wings, the bodywork was so perforated with rust. Jag's paint and anti corrosion prep was not exactly a selling feature at the time, but even so.
NM62 said:
eccles said:
Nanook said:
It's impressive that they were flying them for 8 years prior to that, and no one (hardly anyone) knew.
That's just it though, everyone did know! It was one of those open secret type things, everyone knew about it, but no one officially confirmed it existed.At our open day at RAF Valley in about 85 or 86 the Scheduled F111 couldn't make it at the last minute, so we changed the aircraft info board to say "Stealth fighter, no photos allowed" and stuck a couple of chocks out in the empty gap. I believe this sort of thing happened quite a lot at airshows of the time.
The "spotters" knew where and when a lot of things were happening, we saw the U-2s and SR-71s that operated out of Mildenhall before they were confirmed by either UK or US governments in the late 70's and early 80's.
We had advanced knowledge of the deliveries of aircraft to various air arms (Israel, Saudi) and knew when and where they were staging through.
We had information from those who were in the RAF ( self included ) colleagues in the USA ( USAF, USN, US Army and Marines) and a network around the U.K. ( including the guys arrested in Greece ) and Europe.
We had UHF Radios and high powered telescopes / binoculars, quite often we had the films taken out of our cameras and even got arrested in France.
We were ready at the end of the runway when the support turned up at Mildenhall for the Libyan bombings - it certainly wasn't in the papers or on the news.
We also visited Macrahanish twice that year as I mentioned earlier, once just before Libya and one later, my first visit was to see a U-2 that had to divert there en route to Mildenhall in 81. The F-117's arrived and departed under the cover of darkness pretty much living up to their name (NightHawk).
As Eccles said a lot of shows put a stealth fighter display on Upper Heyford for one in 85 and there were also strong rumours that the F117 visited Upper Heyford too.
Edited by NM62 on Saturday 7th January 10:12
El stovey said:
NM62 said:
eccles said:
Nanook said:
It's impressive that they were flying them for 8 years prior to that, and no one (hardly anyone) knew.
That's just it though, everyone did know! It was one of those open secret type things, everyone knew about it, but no one officially confirmed it existed.At our open day at RAF Valley in about 85 or 86 the Scheduled F111 couldn't make it at the last minute, so we changed the aircraft info board to say "Stealth fighter, no photos allowed" and stuck a couple of chocks out in the empty gap. I believe this sort of thing happened quite a lot at airshows of the time.
The "spotters" knew where and when a lot of things were happening, we saw the U-2s and SR-71s that operated out of Mildenhall before they were confirmed by either UK or US governments in the late 70's and early 80's.
We had advanced knowledge of the deliveries of aircraft to various air arms (Israel, Saudi) and knew when and where they were staging through.
We had information from those who were in the RAF ( self included ) colleagues in the USA ( USAF, USN, US Army and Marines) and a network around the U.K. ( including the guys arrested in Greece ) and Europe.
We had UHF Radios and high powered telescopes / binoculars, quite often we had the films taken out of our cameras and even got arrested in France.
We were ready at the end of the runway when the support turned up at Mildenhall for the Libyan bombings - it certainly wasn't in the papers or on the news.
We also visited Macrahanish twice that year as I mentioned earlier, once just before Libya and one later, my first visit was to see a U-2 that had to divert there en route to Mildenhall in 81. The F-117's arrived and departed under the cover of darkness pretty much living up to their name (NightHawk).
As Eccles said a lot of shows put a stealth fighter display on Upper Heyford for one in 85 and there were also strong rumours that the F117 visited Upper Heyford too.
Edited by NM62 on Saturday 7th January 10:12
Given the level of knowledge we had back then I think nowadays that they know a lot more than you think.
And as stated above we knew that Det 4 were in Mildenhall long before it was public knowledge in the late 70's - did you?
Nanook said:
NM62 said:
Dunno about now as I stopped in 1988 but I did see some stuff when I was at BAE last year that was very interesting but I signed certain documents, so sorry I can't tell you.
This didn't happen, did it?I contract for BAE Systems, the hoops you have to jump through to get security clearance isn't just as simple as "Yeah, Jow Public, come on in, take a look. But sign this now and promise you won't tell any of your spotter buddies!
They don't just show secret stuff off, then ask people not to tell.
Nanook said:
NM62 said:
Dunno about now as I stopped in 1988 but I did see some stuff when I was at BAE last year that was very interesting but I signed certain documents, so sorry I can't tell you.
This didn't happen, did it?I contract for BAE Systems, the hoops you have to jump through to get security clearance isn't just as simple as "Yeah, Joe Public, come on in, take a look. But sign this now and promise you won't tell any of your spotter buddies!
They don't just show secret stuff off, then ask people not to tell.
Edited by Nanook on Monday 23 January 09:22
And what exactly did I say I'd seen?
Believe what you want but I was based in the NW from Jan 2015 - Jan 2016 and then on site Feb 2016 to May 2016.
Who did you contract through?
ETA - had DS, full SC and CTC - had to do it twice - BAE sponsored it and hold for me.
Edited by NM62 on Monday 23 January 15:00
CraigyMc said:
Nanook said:
NM62 said:
Dunno about now as I stopped in 1988 but I did see some stuff when I was at BAE last year that was very interesting but I signed certain documents, so sorry I can't tell you.
This didn't happen, did it?I contract for BAE Systems, the hoops you have to jump through to get security clearance isn't just as simple as "Yeah, Jow Public, come on in, take a look. But sign this now and promise you won't tell any of your spotter buddies!
They don't just show secret stuff off, then ask people not to tell.
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff