XH558 - VTTS Stitch Up

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Discussion

fatboy69

Original Poster:

9,371 posts

186 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
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So according to the latest newsletter 558 has to go 'into storage' because the lease on the hangar expires at the end of this month & there is nowhere for her to go.

On top of that VTTS have recently taken ownership of Canberra WK163 which also would now appear to be homeless.

And now VTTS estimate that a mere £200k is required to 'hibernate the existing hangar operations and to secure the Vulcan, Canberra & other assets' etc etc etc.

What a monumental fk up, apparently, by Dr Pleming & his cohorts.

Bearing in mind Doncaster is a live airport & they clearly do not want 558 at the airport her future once again seems uncertain.

What a waste.


Johnnybee

2,279 posts

220 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
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There might be one last final flight then to get XH558 out of there.

fatboy69

Original Poster:

9,371 posts

186 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
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Sadly I don't think that the CAA will allow her to fly again.

After all they did their best to ground her during the 8 years she was back in the air.

I fear that she will be left outside to rot until Doncaster decide she is a danger or a mess & she gets scrapped.

What a joke.

aeropilot

34,295 posts

226 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
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fatboy69 said:
What a monumental fk up, apparently, by Dr Pleming & his cohorts.

Bearing in mind Doncaster is a live airport & they clearly do not want 558 at the airport her future once again seems uncertain.
Yep, entirely predictible and if you have a trawl around the various historic aviation forums, there wasn't anyone at the time who thought it wouldn't end exactly as it has, just maybe not quite so quickly!!
Doncaster RH was never in a million years the right place for it to make its last landing.....and just about everyone except VTTS knew that.

Hey ho....


ChemicalChaos

10,360 posts

159 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
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I came here to post the same thing. There's a lot of very angry people right now commenting on the link:

https://www.facebook.com/VulcantotheSkyTrust/posts...


Why was it parked up at a live airport that doesnt want it there, rather than at Bruntingthorpe (seemingly the home of cold war jets?) or Duxford or even Scampton which is currently undergoing a renaissance?

Can anyone who is fully informed comment on the likelihood of ferry flight permission being given to get it out of there? The argument for seems to be that all sort of end of life buckets of bolts fly into Brunty every day for the scrap operation there.

I personally see this is being a one-way trip into storage as the funds slowly dry up and the new hangar never gets built.

fatboy69

Original Poster:

9,371 posts

186 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
I have already posted on that FB a couple of times - as you say, a lot of very very angry people.

As for Dr P....

It never made any sense to take her back to Doncaster. - a live airport who banned the general public from seeing her final take off & landing because it would have interfered with the day to day operations.

An airport who, reluctantly, agreed to a fast taxi run on the understanding that it was not made public until after the event had taken place.

An airport who allowed VTTS to take delivery of another project, the Canberra, knowing that as from 31 January they did not have a home.

Why did VTTS not foresee these problems? Easy. Because anywhere else would not have allowed the regular money making tours, events, photo shoots etc that ensured that money continued to roll in.

And now the cash cow has bolted VTTS do not have a back up plan hence the call for another £100k at least.

A monumental fk up.

Frankly I would fly her in to Staverton Airport (Gloucester) & gift her to the Jet Age Musuem who I am sure would look after her.

Alas I fear she will soon be broken up.


aeropilot

34,295 posts

226 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
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ChemicalChaos said:
Can anyone who is fully informed comment on the likelihood of ferry flight permission being given to get it out of there?
Who knows about that, possiblely it might have been viable within 6-9 months of her last landing provided the anti-det schedule had been maintained.
If they have (and no one seems to know whether they even done that?) it's still only just over a year, maybe the CAA/Marshalls/BAe/RR might look favourably on a gear down, short hop to Scampton or Elvington. Scampton would be the best bet IMHO, although, I'd rather see '607 be dismantled and moved there before its too late to save that (maybe already)
However, I doubt VTTS will even be looking at one-off hop to anywhere else, as IMHO, I think they'd rather see the thing be scrapped at RH than admit they were wrong or see it in the hands of someone else!!


ChemicalChaos

10,360 posts

159 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
fatboy69 said:
Because anywhere else would not have allowed the regular money making tours, events, photo shoots etc that ensured that money continued to roll in.
LPG seem to manage it fairly regularly with both static and mock QRA events

aeropilot

34,295 posts

226 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
ChemicalChaos said:
fatboy69 said:
Because anywhere else would not have allowed the regular money making tours, events, photo shoots etc that ensured that money continued to roll in.
LPG seem to manage it fairly regularly with both static and mock QRA events
Exactly....its the opposite in fact.
The problem is that VTTS were totally blind to the glaringly obvious fact that a commercial airport with airline operations was never the place to allow regular tours, events, photo shoots or public event fast taxi's...to enable that stream of income to come in.
Muppets.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
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What amazes me is that they had 22 paid employees!

Not being funny, but when you are running a project like this which is not a full time museum and the Vulcan is not airworthy, why do you need so many people being paid?

Why jump into the Canberra project when the money was running short?




DrDeAtH

3,586 posts

231 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
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Elvington previously wanted 558 to go there. They have hangarage available. VTTS rejected the idea.

Brunty is out due to no hangarage, and outstanding politics with VTTS

Scampton? Possibly

Best option would be for the RAF to be gifted her on the premise that they keep her live.

North Weald could be an option, the runway is long enough (just), but again it depends on hangarage. This would mean taxy runs could be available as it's a private airfield to all intents and purposes.

HoHoHo

14,979 posts

249 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
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Well this is very sad to read.

As an individual supporter and also as a commercial supporter through my business I feel disappointed the VTTS management appear to have got it totally wrong, it appears 'cutting off their nose to spite their face'.

Why not place it where it could be seen and enjoyed FFS?

Personally I won't be sending any more money or helping in any other financial way available to me. I've done my bit, virtually giving away product to VTTS so VTTS could sell on and make a profit and this is the way they repay their supporters?

Absolute Muppets.

And if Dr. P is on nearly £300k per annum he should be bloody ashamed of himself.

Ginetta G15 Girl

3,220 posts

183 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
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fatboy69 said:
Frankly I would fly her in to Staverton Airport (Gloucester) & gift her to the Jet Age Musuem who I am sure would look after her.
7500ft was considered the minmum for Vulcan ops with 6000ft being considered 'short'. Staverton R/W 09/27 is a tad over 4500ft. I doubt that would be doable. Given that Filton is now closed so you'd have to arrive at Staverton with suffcient diversion fuel to go to (presumably) Brize in case of a baulked approach.

DrDeAtH said:
Scampton? Possibly

Best option would be for the RAF to be gifted her on the premise that they keep her live.

North Weald could be an option, the runway is long enough (just), but again it depends on hangarage. This would mean taxy runs could be available as it's a private airfield to all intents and purposes.
I don't see the RAF paying for it, especially in these days of accountability and shrinking budgets. I doubt the RAF woud have picked up the tab 25 yars ago, let alone today especially given that RAFM has 2 Vulcans as well as XM607 being at Waddo.

WRT North Weald the main runway there is a tad over 6000ft so my comments above refer.


ChemicalChaos

10,360 posts

159 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
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What about Cosford? Big runway and plenty of space for a shiny new hangar alongside the Cold War building

Ginetta G15 Girl

3,220 posts

183 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
ChemicalChaos said:
What about Cosford? Big runway and plenty of space for a shiny new hangar alongside the Cold War building
Cosford is a tad under 3900 ft so not a chance. It was marginal getting the Dominies in there back in the late 1990s!

Anyway Cosford already has a (Black Buck) Vulcan in the Cold War Hall.

HoHoHo

14,979 posts

249 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
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According to companies house....

Vulcan To The Sky Trust accounts are as follows:

T/O to 10/15 £4.5 million
Wages £870,000
Pre tax profit £223,000

Cash is up to £613,000

Bank loans and overdraft down from £1.3 million to £304

Shareholders funds up to £1.2 million from £1 million.

Now they will have spent some cash during 2015/16 however some of those figures make for interesting reading yes

I'm sure a Eric can make more of these figures than I can yes






ChemicalChaos

10,360 posts

159 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Cosford is a tad under 3900 ft so not a chance. It was marginal getting the Dominies in there back in the late 1990s!

Anyway Cosford already has a (Black Buck) Vulcan in the Cold War Hall.
Didnt realise the runway at Cosford was so small!


As an aside - we know the Vulcan and Canberra are now at risk, but no-one has mentioned the Swift also in that hangar - does it still belong to Jet Art? Is it considered inconsequential because it can easily be trucked away like how it was delivered?

z06tim

558 posts

185 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
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ChemicalChaos said:
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Cosford is a tad under 3900 ft so not a chance. It was marginal getting the Dominies in there back in the late 1990s!

Anyway Cosford already has a (Black Buck) Vulcan in the Cold War Hall.
Didnt realise the runway at Cosford was so small!


As an aside - we know the Vulcan and Canberra are now at risk, but no-one has mentioned the Swift also in that hangar - does it still belong to Jet Art? Is it considered inconsequential because it can easily be trucked away like how it was delivered?
How did the Cosford Vulcan get there? Was the runway longer back then?

mcdjl

5,438 posts

194 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
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I'm sure up until a few weeks back they were saying in the email that they'd been allowed to stay in their current hanger for a bit longer which would let them get the second one ready for when they did move. Is this now saying that the second hanger isn't ready for them to move to, or that they're actually just trying to build the etna thing and the second hanger will never be open to the public?

ecsrobin

17,018 posts

164 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
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Well nobody saw that coming! VTTS management have only ever been interested in their wages and not the future of the aircraft.