XH558 - VTTS Stitch Up
Discussion
z06tim said:
ChemicalChaos said:
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Cosford is a tad under 3900 ft so not a chance. It was marginal getting the Dominies in there back in the late 1990s!
Anyway Cosford already has a (Black Buck) Vulcan in the Cold War Hall.
Didnt realise the runway at Cosford was so small!Anyway Cosford already has a (Black Buck) Vulcan in the Cold War Hall.
As an aside - we know the Vulcan and Canberra are now at risk, but no-one has mentioned the Swift also in that hangar - does it still belong to Jet Art? Is it considered inconsequential because it can easily be trucked away like how it was delivered?
The Cosford Vulcan, was famously, the so-nearly Black Buck Vulcan, having been the primary a/c for the first raid, before going tech, and then being reserve a/c a few times, and then being primary a/c again for Black Buck 4 which was aborted, and then it was reserve for BB 5 & 6. So, it never dropped anything in anger!
It was also one of the Exercise Sunflower Vulcan that deployed to Aus/NZ in 1973.
z06tim said:
ChemicalChaos said:
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Cosford is a tad under 3900 ft so not a chance. It was marginal getting the Dominies in there back in the late 1990s!
Anyway Cosford already has a (Black Buck) Vulcan in the Cold War Hall.
Didnt realise the runway at Cosford was so small!Anyway Cosford already has a (Black Buck) Vulcan in the Cold War Hall.
As an aside - we know the Vulcan and Canberra are now at risk, but no-one has mentioned the Swift also in that hangar - does it still belong to Jet Art? Is it considered inconsequential because it can easily be trucked away like how it was delivered?
http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documents/collections/...
"The Captain, S/L John Reeve made one 'touch and go' landing followed by a final
15 minute circuit before finally touching down at 12.50 pm.The brake parachute
deployed immediately and the aircraft stopped in less than two thirds of the
runway's length."
Cosford's Valiant was delivered piecemeal:
http://twittervforce.com/blog/?p=323
Think the Victor was delivered in the same manner.
Cosford is well worth a day's visit, and it's free. Despite which, doesn't stop miserable buggers complaining on Trip Adviser about the cost of parking - four quid all day; still a hell of a lot cheaper than Duxford.
The only gripe about Cosford is that the V-bombers are all crammed in a bit too closely.
HoHoHo said:
And if Dr. P is on nearly £300k per annum he should be bloody ashamed of himself.
Not that high, between 70k and 80k according to a recent article in 'Aeroplane' magazine.Don't even know why he still has a full time salary for a static airframe frankly.
The volunteer teams that look after 655 and 426 would likely kill for a yearly budget of 70k to look after their Vulcans!!
What is deeply saddening about this situation is that it was entirely predictable given the lack of attraction of 558 once it had completed its final flight to became just another static Vulcan. Only a naive fool would have built a business plan around the public appeal of a grounded Vulcan at an operational airport during a worsening international security scenario. Even had the aircraft been unique, its widespread public appeal would have been limited, a single aircraft does not justify a family day out but with other Vulcans around in air museums around the UK, it should have been obvious to all but the blinkered that income would be drastically reduced.
To have continued to employ almost two dozen people at a cost of hundreds of thousands of pounds is financial irresponsibility, it's hard to imagine the auditors didn't draw attention to this long before now.
What does the future hold for 558? Not much, I suggest, if it remains at Doncaster. The options for a good home elsewhere are obvious, Bruntingthorpe being the most logical but it'll probably cost in the region of a quarter of a million to move it there, or anywhere else. It's time VTTS realised it has no future with them and accept that a new owner at an appropriate location is required - but I'm not holding my breath...
To have continued to employ almost two dozen people at a cost of hundreds of thousands of pounds is financial irresponsibility, it's hard to imagine the auditors didn't draw attention to this long before now.
What does the future hold for 558? Not much, I suggest, if it remains at Doncaster. The options for a good home elsewhere are obvious, Bruntingthorpe being the most logical but it'll probably cost in the region of a quarter of a million to move it there, or anywhere else. It's time VTTS realised it has no future with them and accept that a new owner at an appropriate location is required - but I'm not holding my breath...
saaby93 said:
Why the knockers?
Without VTTS we wouldnt have had a great few years of seeing a Vulcan on display
Because I personally donated loads of money and my company also supported VTTS and I along with others was promised a future for 558.Without VTTS we wouldnt have had a great few years of seeing a Vulcan on display
It appears that may well not be the case.
We can't even see it taxi run FFS!
saaby93 said:
Why the knockers?
Without VTTS we wouldnt have had a great few years of seeing a Vulcan on display
I joined the club, bought the T shirt, travelled to see and supported VTTS as much as I could for quite a few years. I've been increasingly bewildered at some of the business decisions made by those in control of the project so none of what has now occurred comes as a big surprise - that's why.Without VTTS we wouldnt have had a great few years of seeing a Vulcan on display
V41LEY said:
I've supported her for a long time so this is really depressing news. Looking at the VTTS FB comments, I'm sure the trustees will be having many sleepless nights. If they issued a share issue to move her to Brunty, I'd support that.
As previously said, there's too many issues of politics and storage with Brunty. Really, Scampton is the best bet if they move it anywhere - but who would stomach the idea of it being cut up to move? (barring swine committing aviation and the CAA granting a transit permit)In the meantime, I shall be switching my funding to much more promising new projects, such as the ongoing restoration of the Shackleton (documented on here and slowly recovering themselves from a major setback), and the move of the Phantom "Black Mike" from Leuchars to Brunty whilst retaining its running condition, to partake in future ground runs
saaby93 said:
Why the knockers?
Without VTTS we wouldnt have had a great few years of seeing a Vulcan on display
We're not knocking what was achieved in getting it flying and keep it flying.Without VTTS we wouldnt have had a great few years of seeing a Vulcan on display
What was going to happen once it stopped flying was, and always has been, a point of contention, and VTTS have consistently shown to be lacking logic and common sense on this point....and we now appear to be exactly where most people (other than VTTS and the blinkered) predicted we'd end up.
Depressing news. I have been following the facebook comments and its certainly not happy reading. To be honest, with the debarcle with the secret last flights and lack of taxi runs as promised you knew something would happen. And 22 full time employees, jeez! I certainly won't be donating anymore until a long term plan is sorted.
I would desperately hope a transit flight could be made possible but have yet to see any credible evidence that it could be done.
Does anyone also know where XH558 will be stored. It just says 'in storage' but is that even in a hanger??
I would desperately hope a transit flight could be made possible but have yet to see any credible evidence that it could be done.
Does anyone also know where XH558 will be stored. It just says 'in storage' but is that even in a hanger??
saaby93 said:
Why the knockers?
Without VTTS we wouldnt have had a great few years of seeing a Vulcan on display
It seems to me that the whole project has been mis-managed since before the final flight, and that Dr.Pleming must have an ego larger than the hanger needed to house XH558.Without VTTS we wouldnt have had a great few years of seeing a Vulcan on display
They need to start answering questions, and justifying their strategy and decisions to the many people who have contributed. Pressure should be put upon the charities commission to extract answers from the trustees who have both a moral and legal duty to provide them.
I've always been concerned about their plans for the thing once it had stopped flying. To me, the natural thing to do either seemed to be to park it up at a museum (which would make it easily accessible for the public, as well as providing a boost to the chosen museum's footfall), or as many have suggested to lay it up at Bruntingthorpe with the other Cold War beasts. Grounded aircraft housed at airfields is always a risky business, as the land could be sold for development (see Wellesbourne). But, firstly Brunters is huge (they could sell half of it and still carry on as normal) and secondly, Mr Walton loves his aircraft! It's down to him that 558 ever flew again in the first place. Top man.
Nobody can deny what an achievement VTTS have made, but their plans for post-flight look a bit......optimistic? All very noble, wanting to build an education centre around it, but is one aeroplane REALLY enough to be the centre of something like that?
They must have known that once it was grounded, the money would largely dry up. People have been paying to see it in the air. As it stands now, it's no more deserving of funds than 655, or 426 at Southend. And the guys and gals who maintain those don't employ lots of people and don't have a CEO who takes home a colossal salary. Personally I think he's got some cheek to take as much as he does, when the money is all donated by people probably considerably worse-off than he is, but there you go. I don't know the full story, of course. Very few of us do.
I visited it last year, bought a load of gear in the shop etc, and I love the thing. Didn't want to leave, and could have stayed there all day (I did, actually - we stayed until the guys there wanted to go home!) But when we entered the reception, it was all very posh. I couldn't help but wonder how much all that cost, and whether those funds could have been used on something more important. Nobody is going to judge 558 on the poshness of the hanger's reception!
For the future, personally speaking, I'd say it's knackered. They won't be able to fly it anywhere else, and it's in a pretty bad location. My guess is that it'll be dismantled (with an angle grinder) sometime in the next few years, and either transported to a museum (as per the one at Hendon), or transported to the tip. Hope I'm wrong.
Nobody can deny what an achievement VTTS have made, but their plans for post-flight look a bit......optimistic? All very noble, wanting to build an education centre around it, but is one aeroplane REALLY enough to be the centre of something like that?
They must have known that once it was grounded, the money would largely dry up. People have been paying to see it in the air. As it stands now, it's no more deserving of funds than 655, or 426 at Southend. And the guys and gals who maintain those don't employ lots of people and don't have a CEO who takes home a colossal salary. Personally I think he's got some cheek to take as much as he does, when the money is all donated by people probably considerably worse-off than he is, but there you go. I don't know the full story, of course. Very few of us do.
I visited it last year, bought a load of gear in the shop etc, and I love the thing. Didn't want to leave, and could have stayed there all day (I did, actually - we stayed until the guys there wanted to go home!) But when we entered the reception, it was all very posh. I couldn't help but wonder how much all that cost, and whether those funds could have been used on something more important. Nobody is going to judge 558 on the poshness of the hanger's reception!
For the future, personally speaking, I'd say it's knackered. They won't be able to fly it anywhere else, and it's in a pretty bad location. My guess is that it'll be dismantled (with an angle grinder) sometime in the next few years, and either transported to a museum (as per the one at Hendon), or transported to the tip. Hope I'm wrong.
aeropilot said:
saaby93 said:
Why the knockers?
Without VTTS we wouldnt have had a great few years of seeing a Vulcan on display
We're not knocking what was achieved in getting it flying and keep it flying.Without VTTS we wouldnt have had a great few years of seeing a Vulcan on display
What was going to happen once it stopped flying was, and always has been, a point of contention, and VTTS have consistently shown to be lacking logic and common sense on this point....and we now appear to be exactly where most people (other than VTTS and the blinkered) predicted we'd end up.
Understandably the support was pulled.
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