XH558 - VTTS Stitch Up
Discussion
Riley Blue said:
I joined the club, bought the T shirt, travelled to see and supported VTTS as much as I could for quite a few years. I've been increasingly bewildered at some of the business decisions made by those in control of the project so none of what has now occurred comes as a big surprise - that's why.
Same here - the final straw for me was taking on the Canberra, when the Trust had never been able to generate adequate funds to provide for the Vulcan, necessitating repeated and ever more urgent appeals for "top ups" to keep it all going 
I emailed the club after reading the latest newsletter saying:
"Not very good news at all, especially for the people who have lost their jobs. It's a shame the airport aren't being more supportive.
"Steve Gill, chief executive of Doncaster Sheffield Airport said; “Housing the Vulcan, a prestigious piece of British aerospace engineering, is an honour for Doncaster Sheffield Airport. We have long been supportive of their vision to establish the ETNA Project to meet the important objective of inspiring future generations to engineering and aviation, all from a dedicated tourist centre that fully meets their needs. As we have for many years, we are deeply committed to working with the trust to realise this goal and to working with them, this remains unchanged and of sincere importance to us.”
Why can't the airport allow the Trust to continue to use the current hangar until April, rather than providing free storage facilities?"
In reply I got:
"Thank you for your email. Unfortunately the airport is expanding their trade business and require our current hangar. The initial offer of a new hangar (1) would not be ideal as it does not allow for public access which would prevent both visitors to the aircraft as well as massively affecting a source of revenue required to maintain the upkeep and care of XH558.
We have been offered a few extra months for storage purposes whilst we negotiate the build of a new home for XH558 as well as creating a new venue for tours and other associated venues to ensure future money is raised to maintain her."
I've been a supporter of XL426 at Southend long before XH558, so guess where my donations will be going in future!
Interesting Facebook post just now on the British Airshow Review Facebook page.
I will cherry pick the main bits because I don't know how to link it on to here.
Basically the guys from BAR made a final visit to see 558 in her current hangar & were stunned to find out that EVERYONE apart from two people, were being laid off.
And that includes all of the engineering team including Taff Stone.
They were also told that 558 is only being allowed to remain in hangar one until the end of April this year after which, assuming a new home is not found or does not get built, she will be stored outside!!
All of the volunteers are leaving at the end of this week & will only be back when, or if, a new home is found for 558.
So that now means no engine runs, no taxi runs, no public visits for the foreseeable future, no engineers to keep 558 in working order.
Basically everything that the Trust promised to do when they got the Heritage Fund grant has been ignored.
Apparently the Trust have now realised that they made a mistake in buying the Canberra although they would not discuss what was going to happen to the Canberra.
And what of the Swift???
There is a further newsletter going out to members tomorrow which might, or might not, be discussed.
Oh yes.
The two people who remain employed (possibly on a part time basis) are....
Robert Pleming & Andrew Edmundson.
So. All of that money. All of the emotion. All of the promises.
What a potentially sad end for this beautiful aircraft.
Is no one going to rescue 558 from VTTS & ensure she remains as majestic as was during her final flights in 2015?
What a cluster f
k Dr Pleming.
I will cherry pick the main bits because I don't know how to link it on to here.
Basically the guys from BAR made a final visit to see 558 in her current hangar & were stunned to find out that EVERYONE apart from two people, were being laid off.
And that includes all of the engineering team including Taff Stone.
They were also told that 558 is only being allowed to remain in hangar one until the end of April this year after which, assuming a new home is not found or does not get built, she will be stored outside!!
All of the volunteers are leaving at the end of this week & will only be back when, or if, a new home is found for 558.
So that now means no engine runs, no taxi runs, no public visits for the foreseeable future, no engineers to keep 558 in working order.
Basically everything that the Trust promised to do when they got the Heritage Fund grant has been ignored.
Apparently the Trust have now realised that they made a mistake in buying the Canberra although they would not discuss what was going to happen to the Canberra.
And what of the Swift???
There is a further newsletter going out to members tomorrow which might, or might not, be discussed.
Oh yes.
The two people who remain employed (possibly on a part time basis) are....
Robert Pleming & Andrew Edmundson.
So. All of that money. All of the emotion. All of the promises.
What a potentially sad end for this beautiful aircraft.
Is no one going to rescue 558 from VTTS & ensure she remains as majestic as was during her final flights in 2015?
What a cluster f
k Dr Pleming.They certainly seem adamant that it's theirs to keep. I was there tonight for the audience with Withers and Johnson, and in the welcome speech the host (not Pleming, don't know who he was) said the Vulcan would stay at Doncaster even if he had to sleep in the intakes to stop them moving it.
I thought that was slightly arrogant given the unsuitability of Robin Hood as a home compared to places such as Scampton
I thought that was slightly arrogant given the unsuitability of Robin Hood as a home compared to places such as Scampton
ChemicalChaos said:
They certainly seem adamant that it's theirs to keep. I was there tonight for the audience with Withers and Johnson, and in the welcome speech the host (not Pleming, don't know who he was) said the Vulcan would stay at Doncaster even if he had to sleep in the intakes to stop them moving it.
I thought that was slightly arrogant given the unsuitability of Robin Hood as a home compared to places such as Scampton
The management of VTTS appear to have lost the plot regarding the future of 558.I thought that was slightly arrogant given the unsuitability of Robin Hood as a home compared to places such as Scampton
The airport clearly do not want her hence they are taking back her current home in the next few days & are only allowing her to stay in hangar one until the end of April.
All of the fast taxi runs, with the exception of one 'secret' run have been banned because, as we all knew at the outset, they would interfere with the everyday operation of the airport & the airport do not want tens of thousands of people descending on the airport to watch 558.
In short. VTTS have been screwed over by the airport & more importantly VTTS have been incredibly stupid by siting 558 at a live airport who didnt want her in the first place!!!
Pleming/VTTS should give up 558 to someone who wants her before she ends up being scrapped.
A huge amount of money has been donated to VTTS by us, the general public, on the understanding that 558 would be fully maintained in working order once the CAA grounded her.
This hasn't happened & the management of VTTS should explain themselves whilst hanging their heads in shame.
If it was up to me I would fly her to RAF Fairford. Tons of space. a lot of very large hangars. A perfect runway.
And RIAT which would be the ideal showcase for 558.
Edited by fatboy69 on Friday 27th January 07:06
jonnyb said:
Put it on a lorry and send it to the Avro Heritage Museum at Woodford.
Unfortunately this is not possible. I was discussing this with the XM655 guys at Wellesbourne, as they have problems with the airfield owner wishing to sell to build houses.Basically, the wing was not designed to be removed. No-one to their knowledge has ever done it, and it would likely be so difficult, due to age/size/design/etc, that you would pretty much destroy it, and it would never go back together again.
I really hope someone puts together a realistic proposal for the future of XH558. If they act quickly, surely she could be flown out to a suitable resting place.
Really upsets me the way VTTS have handled this recently. Why the hell did they take on a Canberra without first having XH558s future secure for many years to come?
z06tim said:
Unfortunately this is not possible. I was discussing this with the XM655 guys at Wellesbourne, as they have problems with the airfield owner wishing to sell to build houses.
Basically, the wing was not designed to be removed. No-one to their knowledge has ever done it, and it would likely be so difficult, due to age/size/design/etc, that you would pretty much destroy it, and it would never go back together again.
Not correct.Basically, the wing was not designed to be removed. No-one to their knowledge has ever done it, and it would likely be so difficult, due to age/size/design/etc, that you would pretty much destroy it, and it would never go back together again.
It has been done....but only once.
The RAF dismantled Vulcan B.2 XL318 for transportation to London for putting into the RAFM at Hendon, and reassembling.
The airframe wasn't cut up, but it they did cut through some of the big avionics cable runs etc., just to save some time, as it was a massive undertaking to dismantle and move a Vulcan this way, and it could only be done as it was the Govt/MOD/RAF paying for it to be done this way.
From http://www.twilightaviationmedia.co.uk
Some sad news today from Doncaster about the future of XH588..credit to David Robinson for the update.
A very sad day today folks, made a final visit to see XH558 in hangar three, which you might think was sad enough, but there was more bad news to come... Today was an ideal opportunity to have a chat with one of the engineers, someone that we have known for many years, and when I asked him if he was being kept on, he dropped a bombshell by saying that no one was being kept on, all the engineering team, including Taff Stone were being laid off. Only two people will remain, possibly on a part time basis, and I think you can guess who they are, yep Robert Pleming and Andrew Edmundson, everyone else....gone. I asked if Taff was there today, he said no, he had left and gone for an interview, I believe he said at Cranwell. When asked if he would go back if asked to by the Trust, he said no, not after the way they had been treated. More info came to light, that 558 will move into hanger one and put into storage, but he said that it will only be allowed to stay there till April, if no new home has been built / found by then, she will be moved and stored outside. Also spoke to one of the volunteers, again someone we have known for many years, and he told us that all the volunteers will leave at the end of the week, and will only return if a new home is found for 558. At the moment folks, the future to me doesn’t look to bright. If there are no engineers, how are they going to keep her in taxiable condition, something that the Heritage Fund said they had to do when they got the grant, hope they wont want their money back. No one would be drawn into a conversation re WK163, except to say, that the Trust realise now that they made a mistake in buying her.. As I say, to me the future doesnt look to good, no engine runs, no taxi runs, no engineers, no volunteers and no visits for the foreseeable future for members of the public. There is a possibility of course that all of this, and more, may be in tomorrow nights newsletter, we will have to wait with baited breath to see…
Some sad news today from Doncaster about the future of XH588..credit to David Robinson for the update.
A very sad day today folks, made a final visit to see XH558 in hangar three, which you might think was sad enough, but there was more bad news to come... Today was an ideal opportunity to have a chat with one of the engineers, someone that we have known for many years, and when I asked him if he was being kept on, he dropped a bombshell by saying that no one was being kept on, all the engineering team, including Taff Stone were being laid off. Only two people will remain, possibly on a part time basis, and I think you can guess who they are, yep Robert Pleming and Andrew Edmundson, everyone else....gone. I asked if Taff was there today, he said no, he had left and gone for an interview, I believe he said at Cranwell. When asked if he would go back if asked to by the Trust, he said no, not after the way they had been treated. More info came to light, that 558 will move into hanger one and put into storage, but he said that it will only be allowed to stay there till April, if no new home has been built / found by then, she will be moved and stored outside. Also spoke to one of the volunteers, again someone we have known for many years, and he told us that all the volunteers will leave at the end of the week, and will only return if a new home is found for 558. At the moment folks, the future to me doesn’t look to bright. If there are no engineers, how are they going to keep her in taxiable condition, something that the Heritage Fund said they had to do when they got the grant, hope they wont want their money back. No one would be drawn into a conversation re WK163, except to say, that the Trust realise now that they made a mistake in buying her.. As I say, to me the future doesnt look to good, no engine runs, no taxi runs, no engineers, no volunteers and no visits for the foreseeable future for members of the public. There is a possibility of course that all of this, and more, may be in tomorrow nights newsletter, we will have to wait with baited breath to see…
aeropilot said:
Not correct.
It has been done....but only once.
The RAF dismantled Vulcan B.2 XL318 for transportation to London for putting into the RAFM at Hendon, and reassembling.
The airframe wasn't cut up, but it they did cut through some of the big avionics cable runs etc., just to save some time, as it was a massive undertaking to dismantle and move a Vulcan this way, and it could only be done as it was the Govt/MOD/RAF paying for it to be done this way.
Well there you go. Possible, but quite the undertaking!It has been done....but only once.
The RAF dismantled Vulcan B.2 XL318 for transportation to London for putting into the RAFM at Hendon, and reassembling.
The airframe wasn't cut up, but it they did cut through some of the big avionics cable runs etc., just to save some time, as it was a massive undertaking to dismantle and move a Vulcan this way, and it could only be done as it was the Govt/MOD/RAF paying for it to be done this way.
Would have thought that would very much guarantee a Vulcan to remain a static exhibit after.
Anyway, XM655 team are definitely not keen to do this, although who knows if the site owner kicks them off.
Thread here about cutting it up and moving it by road:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
z06tim said:
Well there you go. Possible, but quite the undertaking!
Would have thought that would very much guarantee a Vulcan to remain a static exhibit after.
Anyway, XM655 team are definitely not keen to do this, although who knows if the site owner kicks them off.
Its not even a case of being keen, it would be an impossible task to do for a volunteer group, from not only a financial point of view, but an engineering one, especially given they don't have access to a RAF hanger with overhead gantry etc to dismantle and then put back together at whatever site was chosen, not something that could be done in the open air by any stretch of the imagination.Would have thought that would very much guarantee a Vulcan to remain a static exhibit after.
Anyway, XM655 team are definitely not keen to do this, although who knows if the site owner kicks them off.
williamp said:
Thread here about cutting it up and moving it by road:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Superb pictures.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
z06tim said:
williamp said:
Thread here about cutting it up and moving it by road:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Superb pictures.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Sad to say, but all this talk of a 'final ferry flight' is wishful thinking. The permissions will never be granted for that.
The truth is that XH558 is now scrap, merely waiting for its time with the axeman.
Hopefully the Canberra can be removed/sold quickly, at least that is easier to transport.
XH558, it was good while it lasted - but lets be honest the writing was on the wall even before the first flight.
The truth is that XH558 is now scrap, merely waiting for its time with the axeman.
Hopefully the Canberra can be removed/sold quickly, at least that is easier to transport.
XH558, it was good while it lasted - but lets be honest the writing was on the wall even before the first flight.
HoHoHo said:
Surely the airframe is still airworthy and one more transit flight can be arranged to a better long-term home for 558?
She hasn't flown for nearly 18 months, we don't even know if the required anti-det schedules have been maintained in that time to satisfy the paperwork trail for a one-off ferry flight.No one knows if the CAA would even allow a gear-down, ferry flight without OEM support, and I doubt that would now be forthcoming in the circumstances.....oh, and they have now made all the engineering staff redundant, and by the few accounts I've heard, they wouldn't come back for love nor money now anyway.
Which means, it ain't flying anywhere.
aeropilot said:
HoHoHo said:
Surely the airframe is still airworthy and one more transit flight can be arranged to a better long-term home for 558?
She hasn't flown for nearly 18 months, we don't even know if the required anti-det schedules have been maintained in that time to satisfy the paperwork trail for a one-off ferry flight.No one knows if the CAA would even allow a gear-down, ferry flight without OEM support, and I doubt that would now be forthcoming in the circumstances.....oh, and they have now made all the engineering staff redundant, and by the few accounts I've heard, they wouldn't come back for love nor money now anyway.
Which means, it ain't flying anywhere.
What a great shame and I think we all know what will happen in the next few years
Halmyre said:
Just remembered there is a Vulcan at East Fortune, which then posed the question, how did it get there?
XM597, the Vulcan that created a political storm when it went tech and had to divert into Rio de Janeiro on its way back from a Black Buck Shrike missile attack on the Falklands.It flew was flown into East Fortune by the RAF after retirement in 1984.
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