First Class on Virgin Trains

[tankplanker]

ecs said:

I'm basically doing man-maths here. I take London Midland in the evening and their trains out of Euston are all short formed and packed at the moment; a first class ticket would be nice for that journey, so I'm trying to figure out a way of justifying it to myself!

London Midland first class is only worth it if the train is mostly full and you just want to increase you chance of a seat, otherwise they open up first class to second class passengers when it is really full.

I rarely struggle to get a seat when travelling with Virgin but I normally have to sit next to somebody. When I walk through first class it is possible to get a pair of chairs to yourself but it is much harder to as first is much busier than it used to be. The seats are a bit bigger but not that much bigger for it to be worth upgrading. Personally I'd just buy my breakfast/tea from somewhere half decent (as it'll be better than Virgin Train's food) and charge it back.

I miss the old pre pendolino trains, they might have been a bit tatty compared to the pendolinos but you had more room, the seats were comfier and the food was better.

[48k]

IIRC I was paying somewhere in the region of £735 for a monthly first class "all routes" (ie Virgin and London Midland) season ticket when I did the Northampton-Euston commute. And for me it was worth every penny because the trains out of Euston in the evening rush hour are a living hell and never once in three years did I not get a seat in first on Virgin for the journey home. And when you do get a seat it's a comfy wide recliner with a table and free wifi, not a standard seat with a paper doily on the headrest saying "1st Class". Plus if there are delays then the first class lounge at Euston is a pleasant place to chill out (particularly since the renovations) rather than stood down on the concourse jostling with crowds of angry people. And you don't have to pay 30p to go to the loo

If you are looking to justify the man maths on the basis of how many complimentary drinks and snacks you will eat in a month then forget it, but if you put value on getting a seat on your journey and getting a bit of peace and quiet from the great unwashed then it is worth doing IMO.

[Equilibrium25]

48k said:

IIRC I was paying somewhere in the region of £735 for a monthly first class "all routes" (ie Virgin and London Midland) season ticket when I did the Northampton-Euston commute. And for me it was worth every penny because the trains out of Euston in the evening rush hour are a living hell and never once in three years did I not get a seat in first on Virgin for the journey home. And when you do get a seat it's a comfy wide recliner with a table and free wifi, not a standard seat with a paper doily on the headrest saying "1st Class". Plus if there are delays then the first class lounge at Euston is a pleasant place to chill out (particularly since the renovations) rather than stood down on the concourse jostling with crowds of angry people. And you don't have to pay 30p to go to the loo

If you are looking to justify the man maths on the basis of how many complimentary drinks and snacks you will eat in a month then forget it, but if you put value on getting a seat on your journey and getting a bit of peace and quiet from the great unwashed then it is worth doing IMO.

Great points. I agree, the benefits of first class trains (and premium/business/first flights) are far more about the calm and the comfort than any freebies. A one-off journey becomes a pleasure rather than a pain and for commuting I imagine that it's priceless if you value your sanity.

[ApOrbital]

I went 1st class from mk to liverpool all i got was some coke and some crackers,£240 return.

[ecs]

tankplanker said:

they open up first class to second class passengers when it is really full.

I've found it depends on the conductor. The young ones don't give a fk if you're standing with your face jammed in someone's armpit, the old guys seem to declassify first a lot more often. The train I'm taking home at the moment is almost always short formed due to the crash in November (?) last year - apparently the set involved is still being repaired.

Think I'll take a punt on first for a week and see One other benefit is you don't have to sit next to the riffraff or the 'Sorry I'm on the train so it might break up' phone wkers.

[tankplanker]

ecs said:

I've found it depends on the conductor. The young ones don't give a fk if you're standing with your face jammed in someone's armpit, the old guys seem to declassify first a lot more often. The train I'm taking home at the moment is almost always short formed due to the crash in November (?) last year - apparently the set involved is still being repaired.

Think I'll take a punt on first for a week and see One other benefit is you don't have to sit next to the riffraff or the 'Sorry I'm on the train so it might break up' phone wkers.

That makes sense. I can't stand London Midland, I wish it was all Virgin Trains on that route. Not because Virgin are brilliant as they are a long way from that, more that Virgin are miles better than London Midland. I can't believe how lucky we were that Virgin kept some of the route via the appeal.

I just put my headphones on and read a book, with that I find it quite easy to tune everybody else out, as long as I have a seat.

[Equilibrium25]

tankplanker said:

hat makes sense. I can't stand London Midland, I wish it was all Virgin Trains on that route. Not because Virgin are brilliant as they are a long way from that, more that Virgin are miles better than London Midland. I can't believe how lucky we were that Virgin kept some of the route via the appeal.

I just put my headphones on and read a book, with that I find it quite easy to tune everybody else out, as long as I have a seat.

Don't they offer different services though? Virgin long-distance and limited stops; London Midland stopping services (with the odd express). Appreciate that they do compete at major stations, but I think the comparison might be apples and oranges :-)

Virgin lost out to First for the west coast franchise, before Smiles Branson won it back as the franchise contest had not been run correctly. Either way, you would not have been stuck with LM as the only option.

[tankplanker]

Equilibrium25 said:

Don't they offer different services though? Virgin long-distance and limited stops; London Midland stopping services (with the odd express). Appreciate that they do compete at major stations, but I think the comparison might be apples and oranges :-)

Virgin lost out to First for the west coast franchise, before Smiles Branson won it back as the franchise contest had not been run correctly. Either way, you would not have been stuck with LM as the only option.

For my route there is only one additional stop, Milton Keynes between the two, and sometimes the Virgin train stops there anyway. London Midland doesn't really stop many more stations than Virgin did for the off peak service, its just there were different numbers of stops for peak vs. middle of the day.

First don't fill me with any more confidence than London Midland!

[Equilibrium25]

tankplanker said:

or my route there is only one additional stop, Milton Keynes between the two, and sometimes the Virgin train stops there anyway. London Midland doesn't really stop many more stations than Virgin did for the off peak service, its just there were different numbers of stops for peak vs. middle of the day.

First don't fill me with any more confidence than London Midland!

Got it. I was thinking of LM as the equivalent of the old NSE Network Express things that I use to catch occasionally from Bletchley in the 90s - stopping at places like Tring, Berkhamsted etc.

Agreed, First are not fantastic. I still haven't got used to the brightly lit, hard leather seats in first class on the Paddington route - just does not have the ambience that the previous configuration had. And second class is now just row after row of tightly packed airline seat. I've only ever used a pendolino for the one journey mentioned above, but thought it was far superior in first class.

[JB!]

ecs said:

Simple question really, but it's not obvious from their website, is the food and drink complimentary on Virgin Trains when travelling First Class? I can't see any prices advertised and I got slightly jealous seeing people tucking into their breakfast this morning as I walked past the first class carriage.

The route I'd be travelling is Northampton to Euston.

Are you going to change train at MK then?

No VT stops at Northampton from memory.

[ecs]

There's one every morning

[JB!]

ecs said:

There's one every morning

I'd be reluctant to tie myself to a season ticket for one train a morning.

Not exactly a robust service.

[ecs]

Huh? It's a season ticket, any permitted route. There are three direct services from Northampton every morning which I can use from London Midland and Virgin. The Virgin one happens to be at the time I like to leave.

[JB!]

ecs said:

Huh? It's a season ticket, any permitted route. There are three direct services from Northampton every morning which I can use from London Midland and Virgin. The Virgin one happens to be at the time I like to leave.

Ah ok, my old man had a LM only season ticket between MK-Euston.

[Stupeo]

I must admit the First class service varies.

I am Virgin Taveller member, so get free first class travel for me+1 anywhere with Virgin WCML every Friday-Sunday. I hardly use it as the onboard service at weekends isn't all that.

[ecs]

It's not bad - the seats on the 'Voyager' trains seem nicer than the 'Pendolino' ones. Complimentary cup of tea and bottle of water in the morning and my Friday bacon roll covered No escape from the riff raff and phone wkers though