Pilots of PH - Did you believe you could do it?
Discussion
King Herald said:
Yipper said:
You only need a couple of A-Levels and average fitness, so it's not particularly testing to get in the door. Most commercial flying, nowadays, is done by computer from start to stop, so you're mostly paid to sit in the front of the plane and eat food from a plastic tray while trying to persuade cabin crew to get their t*ts out. Having said all that, pilots die fairly young, as crossing timezones and breathing jetfuel / cabin fumes eventually take their toll. And pilotless planes are on the horizon (they are just big drones). So, becoming a commercial pilot is not a career decision to be taken lightly.
The Urban dictionary has some great pilot definitions,
"pilot
Bus driver of the air. Generally fresh from a Motel 6 sleepover with a 50-something widebody stewardess.
We had a great pilot on our UA flight 634 from Seattle. He crashed the plane a slight bit on landing, but at least he didn't interrupt our movie telling us about it."
And
"Airline Pilot
An airfierce stick jockey with a big ass watch and clockin much bank while compensating for a puny penis in punk ass polyester pants. The same polyester pants hiding a wallet when it comes time to tip the hooker at the Holiday Inn. Usually comes with a swagger, cowboy boots, aviator shades, and a toothpick to poke the cockpit mike. Generally an expert on any subject including politics; especially affirmative action.
Baby daddy is an Airline Pilot; he visits on layovers."
I don't think I ever doubted my ability to become an airline pilot, however i did find the study and subsequent written exams tough going. I did it back in the day when they had the negative marking system where you had marks deducted for incorrect answers.
It has been an interesting career so far, flown some reasonable equipment and seen some Interesting places around the globe. Averaged 600 hours a year flying the 757 with a mix of long and short haul. Left that job and commuted whilst doing a mixture of long haul and short haul flying on the 747 averaging 700 hours per year. I now spend my time between flying and simulator, training and checking on the 777 which adds up to close on 800 plus hours per year.
Its not a career that I could now recommend, and if I could wind the clock back I would definately do something else, however it will afford me the opportunity to retire in my early fifties if all goes to plan.
It has been an interesting career so far, flown some reasonable equipment and seen some Interesting places around the globe. Averaged 600 hours a year flying the 757 with a mix of long and short haul. Left that job and commuted whilst doing a mixture of long haul and short haul flying on the 747 averaging 700 hours per year. I now spend my time between flying and simulator, training and checking on the 777 which adds up to close on 800 plus hours per year.
Its not a career that I could now recommend, and if I could wind the clock back I would definately do something else, however it will afford me the opportunity to retire in my early fifties if all goes to plan.
I'd have no problem with the flying aspect - I regularly jump between different types of glider and powered aircraft and regimes (Touring, Tugging, Instructing). I'd struggle with the ground exams - i'm crap in a class room, and I also fundamentally disagree with airlines using classroom performance and "aptitude testing" as a method of screening applicants.
And i'd end up working for someone like me, and that doesn't bear thinking about (I'm in an airline management role).
And i'd end up working for someone like me, and that doesn't bear thinking about (I'm in an airline management role).
brenflys777 said:
I think the comments about the flying not being real flying just don't add up. Here's some real flying:
https://youtu.be/lteL18wd15Y
Cracking video.https://youtu.be/lteL18wd15Y
Pains me to say it, but the gunboat wouldn't have stood a chancePassing my ATPLs and flight tests weren't a huge problem when I was younger, I did the most of it via correspondence courses, then got and instructors rating and built hours for ATPL issue but youth is a wonderful thing. I've retrained as a train driver in the last five years and find the job more demanding than flying for a living and I flew a demanding aircraft to different airports on most flights.
I would say any normal person could be a commercial pilot if you have enough money to throw at it. If you're on a budget things get more difficult and finding that first job can be the biggest hurdle (keeping everything current etc.) but the exams and tests are very doable.
I would say any normal person could be a commercial pilot if you have enough money to throw at it. If you're on a budget things get more difficult and finding that first job can be the biggest hurdle (keeping everything current etc.) but the exams and tests are very doable.
Kempus said:
Dr Jekyll said:
Presuming that by commercial flying you mean airliners. Would it be possible in principle for people to learn to fly a modern airliner through classrooms and simulators, without spending hundreds if hours in a light piston practising handling skills?
Yes it's called MPL. Still as expensive and at the end you don't have license to fly anything except the aircraft you do the type rating on.Short haul European outfit where you are home every night is the job to be in in my opinion. Shame the money isn't there anymore.
kurt535 said:
ground school sounds a lot of fun and really interesting.
I'm not sure I'd go that far (I did my EASAs just over two years ago)! It's staggeringly hard work and the vast majority of knowledge isn't really that much use in day to day airline flying. It certainly gives a good grounding in aviation and demonstrates you have the aptitude to take in vast amounts of relatively technical (read: not very interesting) knowledge in a short space of time which is pretty critical in this job. Learning the number of piano keys required to be on a runway threshold depending on the width of said runway was a particularly slow lesson IIRC. I'm not sure I'll ever need to be able to size an aerial length based on radio frequency either. Both are examined.To the original question: once I was on the course I had not 1% percent of doubt in my mind I could get through it. Slight over exaggeration - I certainly had days where the end vanished from sight and it was hard work to get back there. The only benefit of the huge cost of pilot training is its ability to focus the mind. Once you've written that cheque, there's very little opportunity to change your mind and that gives some great focus.
The time I *really* doubted whether I could do it was when applying for jobs. It can be an unforgiving industry to get into. Flight schools will tell you there are dozens of jobs. There are. There are still more pilots. Also the huge, huge majority of pilots training at my school seemed to end up going to Ryanair and easyJet. Burn those bridges with a couple of bad interviews and you're into some serious debt with only a few options open to you.
All in my personal opinion of course...
Having looked at the EASA ATPL groundschool exams, those of us who did the old UK CAA CAP509 route can be safely assured that what we had to do was significantly more difficult than what the modern pups have to do!
They don't have the joy of morse or Perf A, just a generic performance exam that is basically the Fisher Price version of a real exam. Much of it is so generic that it's not really any use.
I mean, they don't even learn about Loran C anymore. Honestly, what is the world coming too?
As for the MPL... I don't get it myself. If I was paying for it, I'd want the ability to fly anything, not just one type on one set of SOP's, but as an old sod who started on light stuff before moving up the food chain into steam driven turboprops, so being beholden to a single carrier doesn't sit well with me, nor does the idea of jumping straight into a jet with 200hrs, but hell, I fly a desk now, so who cares...
They don't have the joy of morse or Perf A, just a generic performance exam that is basically the Fisher Price version of a real exam. Much of it is so generic that it's not really any use.
I mean, they don't even learn about Loran C anymore. Honestly, what is the world coming too?
As for the MPL... I don't get it myself. If I was paying for it, I'd want the ability to fly anything, not just one type on one set of SOP's, but as an old sod who started on light stuff before moving up the food chain into steam driven turboprops, so being beholden to a single carrier doesn't sit well with me, nor does the idea of jumping straight into a jet with 200hrs, but hell, I fly a desk now, so who cares...
To the op, here's my take after 18 years of being an operator of aluminium tubing.
How old are you ? And how much money do you have ? Anything below 35 is a good age to start at, after that, if you have no flying experience then the 'of grey matter can suffer a bit.
Money is good as you won't be earning for at least 1 1/2 - 2 years when you are training, you don't need to be educated just need to be intelligent enough to understand the exams.
One of the strongest attributes you need is commitment, as it is such a huge financial undertaking (£100k+) you need to be committed to the end result.
It beats a normal 9-5 job easily but fatigue is becoming a huge issue under easa, especially long haul. I'm short haul and got a peachy flight coming up which is 5hr45 out and 6hrs + back, right on the limits, a nice 15hr day door to door.
Although saying that I've been to work 5 times this month and 5 times next month. In the summer expect to work 12-16 days a month, a lot of earlies and late nights, by early I mean getting up at 0330-0430 and late getting back at 0200-0400, hardly any weekends off too.
If you have a family then the initial basing could mean you might have to move right across the country to get a job.
To the detractors who think we are just button pushers and tea drinkers, then why don't you have a go at piloting a 85ton aircraft travelling at 150mph, today where the winds are forecast to gust up to 70mph at my local airport....no, I didn't think so, these are the days where we earn the money.
How old are you ? And how much money do you have ? Anything below 35 is a good age to start at, after that, if you have no flying experience then the 'of grey matter can suffer a bit.
Money is good as you won't be earning for at least 1 1/2 - 2 years when you are training, you don't need to be educated just need to be intelligent enough to understand the exams.
One of the strongest attributes you need is commitment, as it is such a huge financial undertaking (£100k+) you need to be committed to the end result.
It beats a normal 9-5 job easily but fatigue is becoming a huge issue under easa, especially long haul. I'm short haul and got a peachy flight coming up which is 5hr45 out and 6hrs + back, right on the limits, a nice 15hr day door to door.
Although saying that I've been to work 5 times this month and 5 times next month. In the summer expect to work 12-16 days a month, a lot of earlies and late nights, by early I mean getting up at 0330-0430 and late getting back at 0200-0400, hardly any weekends off too.
If you have a family then the initial basing could mean you might have to move right across the country to get a job.
To the detractors who think we are just button pushers and tea drinkers, then why don't you have a go at piloting a 85ton aircraft travelling at 150mph, today where the winds are forecast to gust up to 70mph at my local airport....no, I didn't think so, these are the days where we earn the money.
rs4al said:
To the op, here's my take after 18 years of being an operator of aluminium tubing.
How old are you ? And how much money do you have ? Anything below 35 is a good age to start at, after that, if you have no flying experience then the 'of grey matter can suffer a bit.
Money is good as you won't be earning for at least 1 1/2 - 2 years when you are training, you don't need to be educated just need to be intelligent enough to understand the exams.
One of the strongest attributes you need is commitment, as it is such a huge financial undertaking (£100k+) you need to be committed to the end result.
It beats a normal 9-5 job easily but fatigue is becoming a huge issue under easa, especially long haul. I'm short haul and got a peachy flight coming up which is 5hr45 out and 6hrs + back, right on the limits, a nice 15hr day door to door.
Although saying that I've been to work 5 times this month and 5 times next month. In the summer expect to work 12-16 days a month, a lot of earlies and late nights, by early I mean getting up at 0330-0430 and late getting back at 0200-0400, hardly any weekends off too.
If you have a family then the initial basing could mean you might have to move right across the country to get a job.
To the detractors who think we are just button pushers and tea drinkers, then why don't you have a go at piloting a 85ton aircraft travelling at 150mph, today where the winds are forecast to gust up to 70mph at my local airport....no, I didn't think so, these are the days where we earn the money.
Those are the days you have fun. Quit whining about a bit of wx, if it was CAVOK and 10kts straight down the runway everyday, that'd be as dull as hell!How old are you ? And how much money do you have ? Anything below 35 is a good age to start at, after that, if you have no flying experience then the 'of grey matter can suffer a bit.
Money is good as you won't be earning for at least 1 1/2 - 2 years when you are training, you don't need to be educated just need to be intelligent enough to understand the exams.
One of the strongest attributes you need is commitment, as it is such a huge financial undertaking (£100k+) you need to be committed to the end result.
It beats a normal 9-5 job easily but fatigue is becoming a huge issue under easa, especially long haul. I'm short haul and got a peachy flight coming up which is 5hr45 out and 6hrs + back, right on the limits, a nice 15hr day door to door.
Although saying that I've been to work 5 times this month and 5 times next month. In the summer expect to work 12-16 days a month, a lot of earlies and late nights, by early I mean getting up at 0330-0430 and late getting back at 0200-0400, hardly any weekends off too.
If you have a family then the initial basing could mean you might have to move right across the country to get a job.
To the detractors who think we are just button pushers and tea drinkers, then why don't you have a go at piloting a 85ton aircraft travelling at 150mph, today where the winds are forecast to gust up to 70mph at my local airport....no, I didn't think so, these are the days where we earn the money.
If you're in limits, it's fine. If it's out, then go elsewhere or wait until you can get a report saying it's in and then tell ATC to shut up. Afterall, who wants to miss happy hour...
IforB said:
...so being beholden to a single carrier doesn't sit well with me, nor does the idea of jumping straight into a jet with 200hrs, but hell, I fly a desk now, so who cares...
It's worth mentioning that that bit has been happening since way before you were born (potentially?) with no significant negative outcomes and many proven positive ones. It's all down to the training.
pushthebutton said:
IforB said:
...so being beholden to a single carrier doesn't sit well with me, nor does the idea of jumping straight into a jet with 200hrs, but hell, I fly a desk now, so who cares...
It's worth mentioning that that bit has been happening since way before you were born (potentially?) with no significant negative outcomes and many proven positive ones. It's all down to the training.It's the risk of going through the training for one carrier and then finding yourself without somewhere to land for some reason. That would worry me somewhat. At least the old fashioned way it was easy to jump to any operator. So rather than the training risk, it's the personal, financial risk that would give me the heebie jeebies.
Ah well, I'll be in cattle with a GnT.
IforB said:
Those are the days you have fun. Quit whining about a bit of wx, if it was CAVOK and 10kts straight down the runway everyday, that'd be as dull as hell!
If you're in limits, it's fine. If it's out, then go elsewhere or wait until you can get a report saying it's in and then tell ATC to shut up. Afterall, who wants to miss happy hour...
Errr was I whining, I don't think so, now shuffle off to your desk and let the real pilots get on with it.If you're in limits, it's fine. If it's out, then go elsewhere or wait until you can get a report saying it's in and then tell ATC to shut up. Afterall, who wants to miss happy hour...
IforB said:
Good point. Many a Hambletonian did exactly that, but they weren't funding it all themselves!...
I think that they were, but happy to be corrected.The money came out of their pay for the next 7 years didn't it? That's pretty much the same as the current FPP scheme that BA run. The difference may lie in the selection before the payment and the training afterwards but, if they failed, they still had to pay it all back.
pushthebutton said:
IforB said:
Good point. Many a Hambletonian did exactly that, but they weren't funding it all themselves!...
I think that they were, but happy to be corrected.The money came out of their pay for the next 7 years didn't it? That's pretty much the same as the current FPP scheme that BA run. The difference may lie in the selection before the payment and the training afterwards but, if they failed, they still had to pay it all back.
pushthebutton said:
IforB said:
Good point. Many a Hambletonian did exactly that, but they weren't funding it all themselves!...
I think that they were, but happy to be corrected.The money came out of their pay for the next 7 years didn't it? That's pretty much the same as the current FPP scheme that BA run. The difference may lie in the selection before the payment and the training afterwards but, if they failed, they still had to pay it all back.
IforB said:
pushthebutton said:
IforB said:
Good point. Many a Hambletonian did exactly that, but they weren't funding it all themselves!...
I think that they were, but happy to be corrected.The money came out of their pay for the next 7 years didn't it? That's pretty much the same as the current FPP scheme that BA run. The difference may lie in the selection before the payment and the training afterwards but, if they failed, they still had to pay it all back.
I have flown with some ex Hamble people, and the ones I flew with didn't have to pay anything.
Hamble, The College of Air Training, was BEA/BOAC, then BA's pilot training facility.
I think it was called a 'scholarship' and students were known as cadets, and wore blazers. First 6 months were all ground school and everyone dearly wanted to be flying the PA28s that were constantly operating over the classrooms.
The costs were met by BA, but the course was tough, and students were quickly chucked out if they didn't meet the grade.
The late '70s/early '80s saw periods when there was a surplus of pilots and limited job opportunities, and it became more cost effective for BA to sub-contract their future training.
The PA28s were sold off, but you still see them in service today, with the distinctive roof lights, retro-fitted after the fatal mid-air collision in the circuit in 1970.
I think it was called a 'scholarship' and students were known as cadets, and wore blazers. First 6 months were all ground school and everyone dearly wanted to be flying the PA28s that were constantly operating over the classrooms.
The costs were met by BA, but the course was tough, and students were quickly chucked out if they didn't meet the grade.
The late '70s/early '80s saw periods when there was a surplus of pilots and limited job opportunities, and it became more cost effective for BA to sub-contract their future training.
The PA28s were sold off, but you still see them in service today, with the distinctive roof lights, retro-fitted after the fatal mid-air collision in the circuit in 1970.
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