Pssst! Wanna buy a Mosquito bomber?

[aeropilot]

Dr Jekyll said:

swampy442 said:

Surely it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility to re engine a Typhoon its a Griffon/Merlin, or even a Hercules if you were feeling brave.

I know why the Sabre was troublesome, reading about it, oil consumption of 47 to 71 pints AN HOUR

Re engine it and it isn't a Typhoon any more. There's a bit more wiggle room with a Tempest

Not to mention getting CAA to approve it....

The wiggle room for the Tempest is barely wiggle room given the engine option is the Centaurus which is hardly any more viable in the current climate with the oil issues they have, so a Tempest II re-engine with a big P&W would be only option, as per all the US based Sea Furies/Furies.

[2xChevrons]

swampy442 said:

Rolls Royce Heritage have a bare bones Centaurus all beautifully chrome plated showing the sleeve valve operation, its mesmerising to watch and makes you wonder, who the hell thought it would be a good idea lol

This one was displayed at the exhibition at the Bristol City Museum to mark the centenary of the Bristol Aeroplane Company:



(Not my pic - it's from Wikipedia - but I went to that exhibition several times and saw the exact same display. I know the sleeve drive gears lying on the floor of the display case are there to allow a better view of both the gears and the connecting rods, but it does rather give the impression of that engine being frozen in time mere seconds after a catastrophic valvegear failure!

[Dr Jekyll]

aeropilot said:

Not to mention getting CAA to approve it....

The wiggle room for the Tempest is barely wiggle room given the engine option is the Centaurus which is hardly any more viable in the current climate with the oil issues they have, so a Tempest II re-engine with a big P&W would be only option, as per all the US based Sea Furies/Furies.

That's true. But given the Tempest flew with both Sabre and Centaurus, and in prototype form with a Griffon, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that even a P&W powered Tempest would still be a Tempest of sorts. The Typhoon never flew with anything other than a Sabre so far as I know.

[Eric Mc]

Dr Jekyll said:

That's true. But given the Tempest flew with both Sabre and Centaurus, and in prototype form with a Griffon, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that even a P&W powered Tempest would still be a Tempest of sorts. The Typhoon never flew with anything other than a Sabre so far as I know.

Hawker built a number of follow up designs to the Hurricane. The Sabre powered design was called the Typhoon. They also built a Vulture engined aircraft, essentially using the same basic airframe as the Typhoon but they called it the Tornado





The failure of the Vulture ensured that the Tornado never entered production.

[aeropilot]

Taking this back to the Mosquito, this article below with confirmation from Warren Denholm from AvSpecs would seem to indicate that the other UK Mosquito project group, The Pathfinder Trust is likely no more, as this ex-Glyn Powell FB.26 Mosquito now being worked on for a US client, was supposedly the airframe acquired by The Pathfinder Trust to bring to the UK. The Pathfinder Trust's website and Facebook page have not been updated for over 18 months......so I reckon, they couldn't come up with the required funds to complete the deal by a certain timeframe, and thus it has passed to someone that did have the funds.

https://nzcivair.blogspot.com/2022/12/another-mosq...

That leaves the People's Mosquito project of building a new Mossie around a data plate dug out of the ground as the only (still slim imho) chance of the UK seeing a Mosquito fly in home skies again.

[Mutley78]

dr_gn said:

I built a Tamiya 1:72 model a few years back that was meant to show the basic materials and wooden sheet orientations used in its construction:

Going off at a tangent but that’s really neat. I simply don’t have the patience sadly.

[Pete54]

I've seen a Mosquito being displayed and they are really beautiful things in flight. But, but. If British Aerospace could not keep theirs in the air, there should be a certain level of hesitation in operating the type.

They have a horribly high Vmca and of course for displays this comes into effect potentially at a number of points. The maintenance of a couple of Merlins means the operation has to be really well funded.

Worth the effort - I'm really not sure, yes iconic, yes great to see, but really really difficult to operate.

[Dr Jekyll]

The British Aerospace one was lost due to a carb problem during a fairly ambitious manoeuvre. Not directly due to the characteristics of the Mosquito. Engine failure on takeoff is obviously a concern, but on a lightly loaded aircraft presumably the critical phase is briefer than when loaded with bombs and enough fuel to get to Berlin.

[aeropilot]

Pete54 said:

I've seen a Mosquito being displayed and they are really beautiful things in flight. But, but. If British Aerospace could not keep theirs in the air, there should be a certain level of hesitation in operating the type.

If BAe had made the decision to hand over RR299 to BBMF a year earlier, it might still be flying.......

[Pete54]

Dr Jekyll said:

The British Aerospace one was lost due to a carb problem during a fairly ambitious manoeuvre. Not directly due to the characteristics of the Mosquito.

The loss of control during the wingover manoeuvre certainly had linkage to the Mosquito's characteristics. The primary cause was certainly the carb problem, but that would normally have been recoverable. The report also highlights the man issues with running these aircraft and the dependency on 'expertise' in aircraft which have complex maintenance requirements.

[aeropilot]

Pete54 said:

Dr Jekyll said:

The British Aerospace one was lost due to a carb problem during a fairly ambitious manoeuvre. Not directly due to the characteristics of the Mosquito.

The loss of control during the wingover manoeuvre certainly had linkage to the Mosquito's characteristics. The primary cause was certainly the carb problem, but that would normally have been recoverable. The report also highlights the man issues with running these aircraft and the dependency on 'expertise' in aircraft which have complex maintenance requirements.

As I said, had BAe at Hawarden not dithered about handing it over to BBMF, as it was now becoming aware that it no longer had the skills in house to continue operating it, as well as not allowed it's TP (who was not ex-military) to fly a final season flying it in a much more aggressive way than it had been flown for several decades, it might still be flying today.

[Tony1963]

aeropilot said:

If BAe had made the decision to hand over RR299 to BBMF a year earlier, it might still be flying.......

The BBMF is run on an extremely tight budget. I doubt whether, at any time over the last 40 years, they’d have coped with running a Mosquito as well as the rest of the fleet.

[Dr Jekyll]

aeropilot said:

As I said, had BAe at Hawarden not dithered about handing it over to BBMF, as it was now becoming aware that it no longer had the skills in house to continue operating it, as well as not allowed it's TP (who was not ex-military) to fly a final season flying it in a much more aggressive way than it had been flown for several decades, it might still be flying today.

What exactly does not being ex military have to do with it? I can think of plenty of ex military pilots, including ex military display pilots, who have got things badly wrong.

[Eric Mc]

Tony1963 said:

aeropilot said:

If BAe had made the decision to hand over RR299 to BBMF a year earlier, it might still be flying.......

The BBMF is run on an extremely tight budget. I doubt whether, at any time over the last 40 years, they’d have coped with running a Mosquito as well as the rest of the fleet.

They could have sold off one of their Spitfires to raise funds. They have done that in the past.

[Tony1963]

Eric Mc said:

They could have sold off one of their Spitfires to raise funds. They have done that in the past.

It’s doubtful that the sale of one Spitfire back then would’ve covered the Mosquito running costs for very long.

[Lost ranger]

Presumably mothballing a couple would free up roughly the right amount.

[aeropilot]

Eric Mc said:

Tony1963 said:

aeropilot said:

If BAe had made the decision to hand over RR299 to BBMF a year earlier, it might still be flying.......

The BBMF is run on an extremely tight budget. I doubt whether, at any time over the last 40 years, they’d have coped with running a Mosquito as well as the rest of the fleet.

They could have sold off one of their Spitfires to raise funds. They have done that in the past.

By all accounts, funds were not going to be an issue, had BAe donated RR299 to BBMF. The only issue there appeared to be was an argument within as to who was going to fly it.....the Lanc/Dak crews wanted to have it under their 'wing' being multi-engine, but the dual control T.3 being a solid nose version, had the fighter style control columns, not a bomber style half wheel yoke stick, so the fighter pilots wanted it as it wasn't a 'bomber'..

All academic now of course.
Sad that's its lost, and sad that two crew went with it, and even more sad, that the only people that seem to have the funds and interest to restore and fly them are the bloody yanks
Given the huge number of Aus/Kiwi crews that flew them operationally, and the fact they are being restored to fly out there, its also a shame one also hasn't stayed down under as an airworthy example, given 3 have now been done, and a 4th is now on its way.

[Eric Mc]

Tony1963 said:

Eric Mc said:

They could have sold off one of their Spitfires to raise funds. They have done that in the past.

It’s doubtful that the sale of one Spitfire back then would’ve covered the Mosquito running costs for very long.

They can take other measures alongside that, such as spreading their running costs around the whole operation and flying their other aircraft less often. I'm sure they do all that as it is. Not all their aircraft are flown every year. It's called fleet management and I'm sure they are pretty good at it.

[Tony1963]

Eric Mc said:

They can take other measures alongside that, such as spreading their running costs around the whole operation and flying their other aircraft less often. I'm sure they do all that as it is. Not all their aircraft are flown every year. It's called fleet management and I'm sure they are pretty good at it.

I’ve no awareness of the servicing schedules for the BBMF, but even ‘mothballing’ costs money. And of course, old machines that sit unused often develop faults that cost to fix.

I work with an ex-BBMF engine man. I’ll try to remember to ask for his view tomorrow.

[Eric Mc]

Would be interesting to hear. It would be lovely if they had a Mosquito but it's not ever going to be likely now.