Any pilots in the house?

[LimaDelta]

All this unusual optimism about a flying career is unsettling, and seriously making me consider a career change (at 45)

[Royal Jelly]

LimaDelta said:

All this unusual optimism about a flying career is unsettling, and seriously making me consider a career change (at 45)

You probably wouldn’t be the oldest on your course!

[Beeznitch]

https://careers.ba.com/future-pilots

Details of the newly announced BA fully funded sponsorship scheme

[Penguinracer]

These decisions don't need to be binary - your son could still continue his education at University so as to provide additional future career options - and then undertake flight training or apply for an ab initio position.

I had a friend, now sadly deceased, who earned degrees in science and commerce, was a qualified chartered accountant, flew fighters in the Pacific in WW2 (P40 Kittyhawks & F4U Corsairs), then later flew Canberras, Vampires & Venoms before ending up as a Wing Commander before joining the airlines flying DC8's and finishing as a training Captain on the DC10. He retired in 1978.

He ran various businesses after he retired. Some of his pilot friends during the war went on to become surgeons, barristers, engineers etc.

Remember, a flight crew licence is just that, a licence, not an education.

[Big Bad Ben]

I've been through the previous BA cadet programme, also flown low cost and cargo, and flying is my third career. Happy to answer any specific questions you might have over PM if you like.

Echoing what others have said above - I would definitely recommend getting a degree first, I've found throughout my flying career that employment is on a knife-edge - you're only one failed medical/terrorist attack/recession/worldwide pandemic/BALPA strike away from unemployment, so it's nice to have something to fall back on.

I applied for the previous, previous BA scheme back in 1999/2000 - fortunately I was talked out of it by my dad and went to uni instead, as had I been successful, I would have graduated flight school around Q3 2001...

The initial class 1 medical - definitely get this before dropping large sums on a CPL/ATPL. I had asthma when I was young and had to jump through many many hoops to get my initial medical. Similarly friends have had issues from seemingly unrelated issues (acne medication damaging night vision for instance).

As I said, happy to offer any advice if it would help - best of luck to your lad!

Edit: Meant to say, it's the best job in the world! I actually look forward to going to work...

Edited by Big Bad Ben on Tuesday 5th September 13:52

[theplayingmantis]

Royal Jelly said:

LimaDelta said:

All this unusual optimism about a flying career is unsettling, and seriously making me consider a career change (at 45)

You probably wouldn’t be the oldest on your course!

To hijack,

Do they really take new qualified pilots over 35?

What does a pilot for the budget airlines pull in PA?

thanks in advance!

[Big Bad Ben]

theplayingmantis said:

Royal Jelly said:

LimaDelta said:

All this unusual optimism about a flying career is unsettling, and seriously making me consider a career change (at 45)

You probably wouldn’t be the oldest on your course!

To hijack,

Do they really take new qualified pilots over 35?

What does a pilot for the budget airlines pull in PA?

thanks in advance!

I graduated the British Airways Future Pilot Programme aged 35 with no previous flying experience, a friend of mine on the course turned 40 while we were training.

I didn’t go straight into BA from the FPP for a number of reasons (I fly for them now though). I flew for Ryanair at first, in my first year I earned just over £60k. Salary is made up of a combination of basic salary and flight pay, the low cost airlines generally offer a lower basic and higher flight pay (Ryanair used to pay between £30 and £60 per flying hour on top of a fairly modest basic salary, and would try and max you out to the legal limit of 900 hours per year) - lucrative if you’re flying a lot, but a bit of a pain if you’re based in a seasonal location. More traditional airlines offer a higher basic salary and pay less per hour, so your take home is less reliant on how much you fly.

Edited by Big Bad Ben on Thursday 7th September 09:40

[Sim75]

So many amazing replies - I will definately be in touch with some of you directly. But appreciate the time you;ve taken to reply.

Out of interest, who do you all fly for?

[zorba_the_greek]

Sim75 said:

Mine is doing Maths and Physics A Level - get him on MS Flight along with an Airbus / Thrustmaster setup, its phenominal (and addictive for us dads).
You can set it to live weather and he can experience any airport in the world - the graphics and sound are mesmerising.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3xp-SnZDoY

I also got him this for his X Box series X
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thrustmaster-TCA-Captain-...

Watched the MS Flight youtube. Incredible!!!! bet you need an insane PC to run the graphics

[Sim75]

zorba_the_greek said:

Watched the MS Flight youtube. Incredible!!!! bet you need an insane PC to run the graphics

Graphics on the Xbox version are more or less photo realistic anyway. At least from altitude.

[Earl of Hazzard]

A chap that I used to work with became an airline pilot. But he went to the US to train and qualify as it was something like half the price.
When he first obtained his license his first job was to teach others to fly - which I think is the normal route to build hours. He then moved on to freight but is now at Ryanair..

[Royal Jelly]

theplayingmantis said:

To hijack,

Do they really take new qualified pilots over 35?

What does a pilot for the budget airlines pull in PA?

thanks in advance!

To echo others, 35 is not a factor.

As for cash, I’m a bit out of the loop, but once you qualify as ‘experienced’ as an applicant (a year or so most places) then you’d join the likes of Jet2/BA/Virgin etc on something in the region of 80k. Locos have different (productivity-based) pay scales, but I can’t see them being magnitudes different, else they wouldn’t get anyone to work for them.

There’s much more than money to think about of course. If you get a bit of experience under your belt and go to Virgin, for example, you may have a higher starting salary than if you went to Easy, but at Easy you’d become a captain far quicker, with many more years on the associated higher pay.

The trade-off is that outside of the loco world, seniority offers the ability to control your roster, leave etc so it helps to find what works for you - which a little time in the industry will uncover.

I’ve many friends in all different manner of airlines, some are ultra happy doing loco/home each night work, which is the opposite of what I want - and vice versa.

The secret sauce as an industry incomer is that first jet job. Whether at Ryanair or wherever. Once you’ve got a year or two on a 737/320, you’re marketable. This is the vindication (in my opinion) of a more expensive integrated course, vs a modular one.

Feel free to PM me for a chat. Happy to share what I know.

[Royal Jelly]

Sim75 said:

Out of interest, who do you all fly for?

I’ve been an expat for my commercial flying career.

Predominantly Cathay Pacific in Hong Kong on the B777, A330 & A350 and now Emirates A380.

[rallye101]

theplayingmantis said:

To hijack,

Do they really take new qualified pilots over 35?

What does a pilot for the budget airlines pull in PA?

thanks in advance!

Not sure about the airlines, one of my old instructors was a dancer in the Royal ballet till he was 40' odd....did my cpl with him

[theplayingmantis]

Royal Jelly said:

theplayingmantis said:

To hijack,

Do they really take new qualified pilots over 35?

What does a pilot for the budget airlines pull in PA?

thanks in advance!

To echo others, 35 is not a factor.

As for cash, I’m a bit out of the loop, but once you qualify as ‘experienced’ as an applicant (a year or so most places) then you’d join the likes of Jet2/BA/Virgin etc on something in the region of 80k. Locos have different (productivity-based) pay scales, but I can’t see them being magnitudes different, else they wouldn’t get anyone to work for them.

There’s much more than money to think about of course. If you get a bit of experience under your belt and go to Virgin, for example, you may have a higher starting salary than if you went to Easy, but at Easy you’d become a captain far quicker, with many more years on the associated higher pay.

The trade-off is that outside of the loco world, seniority offers the ability to control your roster, leave etc so it helps to find what works for you - which a little time in the industry will uncover.

I’ve many friends in all different manner of airlines, some are ultra happy doing loco/home each night work, which is the opposite of what I want - and vice versa.

The secret sauce as an industry incomer is that first jet job. Whether at Ryanair or wherever. Once you’ve got a year or two on a 737/320, you’re marketable. This is the vindication (in my opinion) of a more expensive integrated course, vs a modular one.

Feel free to PM me for a chat. Happy to share what I know.

Many Thanks, and others, but wasn't for me, rather a friend, non ph'er who was once ATC in our salad days, yet thinking of a change of career.

why do you become a captain quicker in the budget carriers? higher turnover/lower quality/more volume?

I couldn't think of a worse job for myself tbh, military pilot yes that would appeal, but not commercial - too much responsibility, no interest in overseas travel, unless to the better areas of the med and the States (but then i'm an odd duck), lack of security and the WLB constraints, plus the perks do nothing for me especially the broomhildas that i see on Finnair, SAS and matrons on BA, when i'm occasionally forced to do a bit of work, not that that perk would be relevant for my friend or I currently, although i did once get the number and other things off of a decent finnair stewardess having handed her mine as we disembarked, but thats another life...), quite happy in the world of finance where a slip ruins causes a monetary loss (or sometimes gain) rather than your existence!

Although i can certainly see the appeal for the right minded.

Still i am envious of the passion, dedication etc. that you all display for it and the skills you use to keep us freight all safe, so keep up the good work.

i will point my mate in this direction even though hes not a member, but i think its a whim.

although any civil engineers on here i would be interested in speaking too!

[Royal Jelly]

theplayingmantis said:

why do you become a captain quicker in the budget carriers? higher turnover/lower quality/more volume?

Depends on the airline really. For some it’s because they’re less favoured employers, so turnover is high; and for others it’s due to expansion of the fleet.

Fair comment - the job certainly isn’t for everyone. It sometimes isn’t for people who think it is

But for the right fit, it’s bloody great.

Offer extends to anyone on here; happy to share my knowledge and and pearls of wisdom/nonsense.

[Crumpet]

Royal Jelly said:

theplayingmantis said:

why do you become a captain quicker in the budget carriers? higher turnover/lower quality/more volume?

Depends on the airline really. For some it’s because they’re less favoured employers, so turnover is high; and for others it’s due to expansion of the fleet.

Fair comment - the job certainly isn’t for everyone. It sometimes isn’t for people who think it is

But for the right fit, it’s bloody great.

Offer extends to anyone on here; happy to share my knowledge and and pearls of wisdom/nonsense.

I think my advice to anyone starting out would be go to Ryanair, get your hours and get command. The world is your oyster then; I think it opens up the most options for advancing your career, although not my idea of fun.

I went bizjets and while command can be quick it does limit you somewhat if you want to move to airlines or cargo. Even though I’ve got stacks of command time on jets over 45 tonnes (which is what a lot of airlines ask for) it doesn’t seem to be much interest to the them and I’m pretty tied to bizjets unless I want to take a massive pay cut. Whereas we’ve got quite a few ex-Ryanair captains who can slide across to bizjets pretty easily.

[Royal Jelly]

Crumpet said:

I think my advice to anyone starting out would be go to Ryanair, get your hours and get command. The world is your oyster then; I think it opens up the most options for advancing your career, although not my idea of fun.

I went bizjets and while command can be quick it does limit you somewhat if you want to move to airlines or cargo. Even though I’ve got stacks of command time on jets over 45 tonnes (which is what a lot of airlines ask for) it doesn’t seem to be much interest to the them and I’m pretty tied to bizjets unless I want to take a massive pay cut. Whereas we’ve got quite a few ex-Ryanair captains who can slide across to bizjets pretty easily.

Truth in that for sure, although I’d suggest it depends where you envisage wanting to end up. The airline world is a seniority-driven one, so there’s a strong argument to get where you want to end up ASAP. With the benefit of not working for Ryanair for longer than strictly necessary

You’re right though, for direct entry command, airlines seem stuck wanting command experience only on Boeings and Airbii, which is a shame, but as we know, HR aren’t the sharpest or most creative creatures around..

[djc206]

Crumpet said:

I think my advice to anyone starting out would be go to Ryanair, get your hours and get command. The world is your oyster then; I think it opens up the most options for advancing your career, although not my idea of fun.

I went bizjets and while command can be quick it does limit you somewhat if you want to move to airlines or cargo. Even though I’ve got stacks of command time on jets over 45 tonnes (which is what a lot of airlines ask for) it doesn’t seem to be much interest to the them and I’m pretty tied to bizjets unless I want to take a massive pay cut. Whereas we’ve got quite a few ex-Ryanair captains who can slide across to bizjets pretty easily.

The two guys I know who’ve done it went to EasyJet to try and do what you’ve suggested.

I flew don’t to Nice in the cockpit with EasyJet in early 2020 before the world went mad and the captain was ex bizjet (Gulftsream for a Russian billionaire), had moved to them for a bit of predictability, probably quite glad of the move now…

[Crumpet]

Royal Jelly said:

Truth in that for sure, although I’d suggest it depends where you envisage wanting to end up. The airline world is a seniority-driven one, so there’s a strong argument to get where you want to end up ASAP. With the benefit of not working for Ryanair for longer than strictly necessary

You’re right though, for direct entry command, airlines seem stuck wanting command experience only on Boeings and Airbii, which is a shame, but as we know, HR aren’t the sharpest or most creative creatures around..

I think historically the bizjet world has a bit of a shady reputation and that still impacts how airlines see things. But with the likes of NetJets and others the standards are very much the equal of the airlines these days.

The experience and skills of bizjet crew is far more ‘Jack of all trades, master of none’ than an airline pilot, though. So maybe I can see why they’d want someone with years of experience relevant to airline flying; for a start I wouldn’t even know where to find the PA button on our audio panel!

Regarding your first point; I completely understand why you’d want to get where you want to end up ASAP. But I couldn’t think of anything worse than being 23 years old and looking at 40 years flying for BA - as good a career as it may be!