Private Pilots Licence
Discussion
Sticks. said:
eharding said:
You'd need to check with your flying school as things have changed (a lot) in the past few years, but as I understand it you would need for an initial PPL application (and hence first solo) as a minimum an EU Class 2 certificate if training for an EU Part-FCL PPL, or an EU LAPL certificate if training for an EU Part-FCL LAPL. It *might* be the case that if you're just aiming for an NPPL, then a self declaration is all you require.
Can you still fly the likes of Cessnas/Robins on a NPPL and take passengers? It's something I didn't look into when I did my Class 2/PPL but might now.Sorry, thread hijack.
LAA said:
A According to the ANO Schedule 1, for licensing purposes, a “SSEA” means a simple single engine aeroplane, being a single engine piston aeroplane with a maximum take-off weight authorised of not more than 2,000kg and which is not a microlight aeroplane or a SLMG.
hidetheelephants][ said:
According to the LAA who issue the things an NPPL with appropriate rating allows you to fly
Thanks, something to think about this year. LAA said:
A According to the ANO Schedule 1, for licensing purposes, a “SSEA” means a simple single engine aeroplane, being a single engine piston aeroplane with a maximum take-off weight authorised of not more than 2,000kg and which is not a microlight aeroplane or a SLMG.
fourstardan said:
Gliders give me the willies, I think I'd want to have the propeller on the front for at least a first failsafe.
That said I don't think I've seen many glider disasters before.
Gliding is the purest and possibly most enjoyable flying I have done. They do have a few accidents though - my parents saw a fatal where a glider fell to pieces. There is an episode of Air Crash Investigation where a helicopter ditches in the North Sea and the copilot (a bloke I know well from work) had to jump out of a glider and use his parachute a year to the day after he ditched! That said I don't think I've seen many glider disasters before.
JW911 said:
Prospects of an engine failure are reduced significantly though.
I fly over large oceans on two instead of four these days. That concentrates the mind a little more.
eharding, hope all’s well.
JW
Didn't you once have a double engine failure in a single-engine type a while back though?I fly over large oceans on two instead of four these days. That concentrates the mind a little more.
eharding, hope all’s well.
JW
Best wishes for the New Year JW!
One for the instructors
i will never get a ppl due to age and health..but would live to fly.
the theorectical question is this
tomorrow Euromillions comes up and i am awash with cash
could i go through the whole course exams etc with an instructor sitting in for the 'solo' bits as a pax so in effect if i was 100% fit i would be qualified. I ask this as my local field do experience flights where AIUI once you are wheels off you do the driving.
i will never get a ppl due to age and health..but would live to fly.
the theorectical question is this
tomorrow Euromillions comes up and i am awash with cash
could i go through the whole course exams etc with an instructor sitting in for the 'solo' bits as a pax so in effect if i was 100% fit i would be qualified. I ask this as my local field do experience flights where AIUI once you are wheels off you do the driving.
Sport_Turismo_GTS said:
A while ago I was given a voucher for a 60 min Extended flight voucher for a present and was looking to book this up in the next few months before it expires.
Shoreham Aviation flight centre is likely to be the most convenient location for me - on looking at their website, I was distracted by their PPL packages, which looks to be around £12k in total.
For those of you who have done this, how long do people normally take to do the 45 hours required flying time? Realistically one or twice a month would be the maximum commitment, so it would take 2-3 years to complete the hours.
Bear in mind the 45 hours is the minimum required for a licence, it's not really a question of how long will it take you to do the 45 hours but a question of how many hours will it take you to complete the syllabus at one or two lessons per month. IME one or two lessons a month would not be regular enough to achieve material progress through the syllabus to complete it in 45 hours for a few reasons, including: Shoreham Aviation flight centre is likely to be the most convenient location for me - on looking at their website, I was distracted by their PPL packages, which looks to be around £12k in total.
For those of you who have done this, how long do people normally take to do the 45 hours required flying time? Realistically one or twice a month would be the maximum commitment, so it would take 2-3 years to complete the hours.
- each lesson will include more refresher of what you did on the previous lesson if that lesson was 2-3 weeks ago than if it was 2-3 days ago.
- the above can be compounded if you don't get the same instructor from lesson to lesson to lesson so there is an aspect of student-pupil familiarity and relationship building
- similarly it's ideal for the learning curve if you can have the same type of aircraft for all your lessons (switching between say C152 and PA28 from lesson to lesson is less ideal than just sticking with one type) so check if your chosen lesson schedule is going to fit with the schools aircraft availability
- several aspects of learning to fly have a "knack" to them and that knack sinks in quicker with regular repetition
- the great British weather may conspire to write off one or both of the two days in the month you were available to fly so your gap between lessons is even longer
So make sure you have realistic expectations about hours and costs.
For costs in particular - make sure you understand what is and more importantly what is not included in that 12K total. For example that figure may or may not include home landing fees and may or may not include home touch and go fees, but almost certainly won't include landing/t+g fees for other airfields when you get in to doing land aways and the navigation part of the syllabus. There may be fuel surchages. The figure almost certainly won't include ground school equipment like the books, whizz wheel, chart. You'll want your own headset. Maybe your own fuel tester. A kneeboard/clipboard. A pad of blank PLOGs. Chinograph pencils. A nice bag to put everything in. Lots of little bits that cost money.
And definitely as others have said do not pay large chunks of money up front especially at the lesson frequency you are proposing. And pay for everything on credit card.
Best of luck!
silverfoxcc said:
One for the instructors
i will never get a ppl due to age and health..but would live to fly.
the theorectical question is this
tomorrow Euromillions comes up and i am awash with cash
could i go through the whole course exams etc with an instructor sitting in for the 'solo' bits as a pax so in effect if i was 100% fit i would be qualified. I ask this as my local field do experience flights where AIUI once you are wheels off you do the driving.
Simple answer is yes. The solo bit is immaterial as those hours are just about consolidating what you have learned when dual and building up solo hours in the aircraft, plus a solo Qualifying Cross Country flight of a minimum of 150nm including 2 land aways which you wouldn't be able to do. And without a medical you obviously can't get a licence anyway. But you can absolutely learn how to operate the aircraft both on the ground and in the air. and how to navigate and how to communicate with ATC, and go flying with an instructor in command sat next to you.i will never get a ppl due to age and health..but would live to fly.
the theorectical question is this
tomorrow Euromillions comes up and i am awash with cash
could i go through the whole course exams etc with an instructor sitting in for the 'solo' bits as a pax so in effect if i was 100% fit i would be qualified. I ask this as my local field do experience flights where AIUI once you are wheels off you do the driving.
Infact my last flight some 10+ years ago was when I was on holiday in Melbourne Aus, I rocked up to a flying school at Moorabbin said I don't have a licence or a current medical but I can fly, would it be possible to hire an aircraft and instructor and go flying please? I showed them my log book and passport, booked in for the next day and the next day came back and conducted my own sight seeing flight over Melbourne and did a few touch and goes on return, with the instructor sat next to me.
48k said:
Bear in mind the 45 hours is the minimum required for a licence, it's not really a question of how long will it take you to do the 45 hours but a question of how many hours will it take you to complete the syllabus at one or two lessons per month. IME one or two lessons a month would not be regular enough to achieve material progress through the syllabus to complete it in 45 hours for a few reasons, including:
- each lesson will include more refresher of what you did on the previous lesson if that lesson was 2-3 weeks ago than if it was 2-3 days ago.
- the above can be compounded if you don't get the same instructor from lesson to lesson to lesson so there is an aspect of student-pupil familiarity and relationship building
- similarly it's ideal for the learning curve if you can have the same type of aircraft for all your lessons (switching between say C152 and PA28 from lesson to lesson is less ideal than just sticking with one type) so check if your chosen lesson schedule is going to fit with the schools aircraft availability
- several aspects of learning to fly have a "knack" to them and that knack sinks in quicker with regular repetition
- the great British weather may conspire to write off one or both of the two days in the month you were available to fly so your gap between lessons is even longer
So make sure you have realistic expectations about hours and costs.
For costs in particular - make sure you understand what is and more importantly what is not included in that 12K total. For example that figure may or may not include home landing fees and may or may not include home touch and go fees, but almost certainly won't include landing/t+g fees for other airfields when you get in to doing land aways and the navigation part of the syllabus. There may be fuel surchages. The figure almost certainly won't include ground school equipment like the books, whizz wheel, chart. You'll want your own headset. Maybe your own fuel tester. A kneeboard/clipboard. A pad of blank PLOGs. Chinograph pencils. A nice bag to put everything in. Lots of little bits that cost money.
And definitely as others have said do not pay large chunks of money up front especially at the lesson frequency you are proposing. And pay for everything on credit card.
Best of luck!
Thanks for making the effort to write this post - since writing my original post I’ve obtained a lot of extra information, including from the ‘Flyer’ forums. It very much aligns with what you and others have said.- each lesson will include more refresher of what you did on the previous lesson if that lesson was 2-3 weeks ago than if it was 2-3 days ago.
- the above can be compounded if you don't get the same instructor from lesson to lesson to lesson so there is an aspect of student-pupil familiarity and relationship building
- similarly it's ideal for the learning curve if you can have the same type of aircraft for all your lessons (switching between say C152 and PA28 from lesson to lesson is less ideal than just sticking with one type) so check if your chosen lesson schedule is going to fit with the schools aircraft availability
- several aspects of learning to fly have a "knack" to them and that knack sinks in quicker with regular repetition
- the great British weather may conspire to write off one or both of the two days in the month you were available to fly so your gap between lessons is even longer
So make sure you have realistic expectations about hours and costs.
For costs in particular - make sure you understand what is and more importantly what is not included in that 12K total. For example that figure may or may not include home landing fees and may or may not include home touch and go fees, but almost certainly won't include landing/t+g fees for other airfields when you get in to doing land aways and the navigation part of the syllabus. There may be fuel surchages. The figure almost certainly won't include ground school equipment like the books, whizz wheel, chart. You'll want your own headset. Maybe your own fuel tester. A kneeboard/clipboard. A pad of blank PLOGs. Chinograph pencils. A nice bag to put everything in. Lots of little bits that cost money.
And definitely as others have said do not pay large chunks of money up front especially at the lesson frequency you are proposing. And pay for everything on credit card.
Best of luck!
I did buy the Pooley’s Air Pilots Manual Volume 1 (Flying training) e-book which I am thoroughly enjoying reading - roughly halfway through already (231 pages out of 448) and find it fascinating. It does mean I have a (limited) idea of the basics.
Hope to book up my extended trial flight soon, and will be obtaining a Pilot’s log book so that I can log the hour, which could be relevant in the future!
bearman68 said:
Hi. I had a glider experience in 2017, and been flying them ever since. I now have a SPL, and some experience, and I'm now training to be an instructor. Along the way, I've flown in one way or another most of the kit the club has, including the 2 seat Eurofox, and a couple of Grob 109's.
To date, I suppose it has cost me £6k or so, including all the club fees and so on.
To convert from SPL to LAPL, I think is 10 hours?
If you wanted to learn to fly, sail planes have all the features of powered aircraft, with a much lower running cost, and much cheaper access to the learning bit.
Not only that, when you are flying, you don't have that big noisy thing at the front, so it's a much more immersive experience. And if you are not flying for anything other than fun, you don't need to worry about getting places, which, I admit, requires some skill and experience in a UK glider. But of course, learning the skills to fly cross country in a glider is what the sport is all about.
This is a timely thread and excuse the thread jack. I'm about to turn the big five-oh which has really got me thinking about all the things I still want to do, and flying again is one of them.To date, I suppose it has cost me £6k or so, including all the club fees and so on.
To convert from SPL to LAPL, I think is 10 hours?
If you wanted to learn to fly, sail planes have all the features of powered aircraft, with a much lower running cost, and much cheaper access to the learning bit.
Not only that, when you are flying, you don't have that big noisy thing at the front, so it's a much more immersive experience. And if you are not flying for anything other than fun, you don't need to worry about getting places, which, I admit, requires some skill and experience in a UK glider. But of course, learning the skills to fly cross country in a glider is what the sport is all about.
I did my glider solo in a Grob G103 a very long time ago in my late teens in Air Cadets, and went solo in the US in a PA28 Warrior when I was 30, but never had the money to carry on to PPL. Did a few GA trips with my best mate around the US and down to Spain from the UK in an Arrow. I recently got into MS flight sim and it's massively rekindled my interest in aviation. I'd love to have a suitable license to be able to fly my family in a single engined piston aircraft one day.
I probably don't have any record of my glider hours/launches, but probably have my PA28 hours/logbook somewhere.
As I'd not be starting from scratch, and could potentially get ahead of the revision curve using MS flight sim* , and have some "transferable skills" from sailing (the navigation element is similar in many respects. things just happen much faster in an aircraft), what would be my best route and potential costs?
My local aero club are quoting around £7k for LAPL from scratch. Is is reasonable (especially if I can find my logbook) to expect to be able to get to LAPL for a bit less? Am I best off looking at this, or getting solo/licensed in a glider again and looking at converting?
(don't joke, it is incredibly realistic, especially with a yoke/throttles etc, and as far as I can tell all the Garmin systems etc are totally faithful)
Hard-Drive said:
bearman68 said:
Hi. I had a glider experience in 2017, and been flying them ever since. I now have a SPL, and some experience, and I'm now training to be an instructor. Along the way, I've flown in one way or another most of the kit the club has, including the 2 seat Eurofox, and a couple of Grob 109's.
To date, I suppose it has cost me £6k or so, including all the club fees and so on.
To convert from SPL to LAPL, I think is 10 hours?
If you wanted to learn to fly, sail planes have all the features of powered aircraft, with a much lower running cost, and much cheaper access to the learning bit.
Not only that, when you are flying, you don't have that big noisy thing at the front, so it's a much more immersive experience. And if you are not flying for anything other than fun, you don't need to worry about getting places, which, I admit, requires some skill and experience in a UK glider. But of course, learning the skills to fly cross country in a glider is what the sport is all about.
This is a timely thread and excuse the thread jack. I'm about to turn the big five-oh which has really got me thinking about all the things I still want to do, and flying again is one of them.To date, I suppose it has cost me £6k or so, including all the club fees and so on.
To convert from SPL to LAPL, I think is 10 hours?
If you wanted to learn to fly, sail planes have all the features of powered aircraft, with a much lower running cost, and much cheaper access to the learning bit.
Not only that, when you are flying, you don't have that big noisy thing at the front, so it's a much more immersive experience. And if you are not flying for anything other than fun, you don't need to worry about getting places, which, I admit, requires some skill and experience in a UK glider. But of course, learning the skills to fly cross country in a glider is what the sport is all about.
I did my glider solo in a Grob G103 a very long time ago in my late teens in Air Cadets, and went solo in the US in a PA28 Warrior when I was 30, but never had the money to carry on to PPL. Did a few GA trips with my best mate around the US and down to Spain from the UK in an Arrow. I recently got into MS flight sim and it's massively rekindled my interest in aviation. I'd love to have a suitable license to be able to fly my family in a single engined piston aircraft one day.
I probably don't have any record of my glider hours/launches, but probably have my PA28 hours/logbook somewhere.
As I'd not be starting from scratch, and could potentially get ahead of the revision curve using MS flight sim* , and have some "transferable skills" from sailing (the navigation element is similar in many respects. things just happen much faster in an aircraft), what would be my best route and potential costs?
My local aero club are quoting around £7k for LAPL from scratch. Is is reasonable (especially if I can find my logbook) to expect to be able to get to LAPL for a bit less? Am I best off looking at this, or getting solo/licensed in a glider again and looking at converting?
(don't joke, it is incredibly realistic, especially with a yoke/throttles etc, and as far as I can tell all the Garmin systems etc are totally faithful)
Re. realism/faithfulness of Garmin etc. that's irrelevant unless something has changed in the syllabus as nav etc. is all old school charts and whizzy wheel.
Update...I'm going for LAPL!
I booked a "trial lesson" at my local club in a PA28 (so the fam could come up) and did an hour of circuits. Even though it had been 19 years since I was last in the left hand seat it came flooding back, helped by the fact that I'd just read all of Pooleys Flying Training book 1, and spent a lot of time on MS Flight Sim to get some practice in too! Funny thing was even after a huge gap, I know my landings were waaaay better on a much smaller UK field now than they were all that time ago on a huge runway in the US...go figure!
I was super happy how it went, and my instructor wants to get me solo again very soon. Obviously I can't use my 17 hours from way back in 2005 now, but he says I should easily do it within the 30 and can hopefully look forward to a really decent amount of solo/xc time building up those hours. LAPL medical passed, flight bag/kneeboard/whizz wheel/ruler/protractor and a lovely pair of David Clarks all bought locally second hand on FM Marketplace, next lessons booked and head down in the books.
Swapping to a C152 now to keep costs down but really excited about the whole thing! Thanks for the advice (and sorry for the thread jack!)
I booked a "trial lesson" at my local club in a PA28 (so the fam could come up) and did an hour of circuits. Even though it had been 19 years since I was last in the left hand seat it came flooding back, helped by the fact that I'd just read all of Pooleys Flying Training book 1, and spent a lot of time on MS Flight Sim to get some practice in too! Funny thing was even after a huge gap, I know my landings were waaaay better on a much smaller UK field now than they were all that time ago on a huge runway in the US...go figure!
I was super happy how it went, and my instructor wants to get me solo again very soon. Obviously I can't use my 17 hours from way back in 2005 now, but he says I should easily do it within the 30 and can hopefully look forward to a really decent amount of solo/xc time building up those hours. LAPL medical passed, flight bag/kneeboard/whizz wheel/ruler/protractor and a lovely pair of David Clarks all bought locally second hand on FM Marketplace, next lessons booked and head down in the books.
Swapping to a C152 now to keep costs down but really excited about the whole thing! Thanks for the advice (and sorry for the thread jack!)
Out of interest, what is/are the best forums for someone doing LAPL? Places to ask newbie questions, compare notes, work out what apps are best to download, what size iPad I need to buy at some point, what airfields are worth visiting etc etc? I'm guessing this is probably a bit beyond the scope of PH...I guess I'm looking for aviation's equivalent to sailing's YBW forum (although hopefully less cantankerous haha!)
Thanks in advance!
Thanks in advance!
Flyer Forums has some pretty knowledgable people knocking about: https://forums.flyer.co.uk/
(Or at least it used to, not been on there in a while)
(Or at least it used to, not been on there in a while)
Hard-Drive said:
Out of interest, what is/are the best forums for someone doing LAPL? Places to ask newbie questions, compare notes, work out what apps are best to download, what size iPad I need to buy at some point, what airfields are worth visiting etc etc? I'm guessing this is probably a bit beyond the scope of PH...I guess I'm looking for aviation's equivalent to sailing's YBW forum (although hopefully less cantankerous haha!)
Thanks in advance!
We aren't cantankerous! We aren't allowed to be by nanny! Thanks in advance!
Hard-Drive said:
bearman68 said:
Hi. I had a glider experience in 2017, and been flying them ever since. I now have a SPL, and some experience, and I'm now training to be an instructor. Along the way, I've flown in one way or another most of the kit the club has, including the 2 seat Eurofox, and a couple of Grob 109's.
To date, I suppose it has cost me £6k or so, including all the club fees and so on.
To convert from SPL to LAPL, I think is 10 hours?
If you wanted to learn to fly, sail planes have all the features of powered aircraft, with a much lower running cost, and much cheaper access to the learning bit.
Not only that, when you are flying, you don't have that big noisy thing at the front, so it's a much more immersive experience. And if you are not flying for anything other than fun, you don't need to worry about getting places, which, I admit, requires some skill and experience in a UK glider. But of course, learning the skills to fly cross country in a glider is what the sport is all about.
This is a timely thread and excuse the thread jack. I'm about to turn the big five-oh which has really got me thinking about all the things I still want to do, and flying again is one of them.To date, I suppose it has cost me £6k or so, including all the club fees and so on.
To convert from SPL to LAPL, I think is 10 hours?
If you wanted to learn to fly, sail planes have all the features of powered aircraft, with a much lower running cost, and much cheaper access to the learning bit.
Not only that, when you are flying, you don't have that big noisy thing at the front, so it's a much more immersive experience. And if you are not flying for anything other than fun, you don't need to worry about getting places, which, I admit, requires some skill and experience in a UK glider. But of course, learning the skills to fly cross country in a glider is what the sport is all about.
I did my glider solo in a Grob G103 a very long time ago in my late teens in Air Cadets, and went solo in the US in a PA28 Warrior when I was 30, but never had the money to carry on to PPL. Did a few GA trips with my best mate around the US and down to Spain from the UK in an Arrow. I recently got into MS flight sim and it's massively rekindled my interest in aviation. I'd love to have a suitable license to be able to fly my family in a single engined piston aircraft one day.
I probably don't have any record of my glider hours/launches, but probably have my PA28 hours/logbook somewhere.
As I'd not be starting from scratch, and could potentially get ahead of the revision curve using MS flight sim* , and have some "transferable skills" from sailing (the navigation element is similar in many respects. things just happen much faster in an aircraft), what would be my best route and potential costs?
My local aero club are quoting around £7k for LAPL from scratch. Is is reasonable (especially if I can find my logbook) to expect to be able to get to LAPL for a bit less? Am I best off looking at this, or getting solo/licensed in a glider again and looking at converting?
(don't joke, it is incredibly realistic, especially with a yoke/throttles etc, and as far as I can tell all the Garmin systems etc are totally faithful)
I'd still recommend tying up with a glider club. As you'll know, gliders are launched by SEP - and they need to be flown by someone, ideally with a sail plane background. Clubs will sometimes be willing to sponsor the right person for LAPL and the tow plane ratings. Chuck in a bit of glider flying, and you could have a very nice way of building hours and experience that won't cost much. The annual minimum for T/O and landings, most of our tuggies do in a busy day with no cost. There is always plenty of powered flying of one form or another at a gliding club. (Some even have club powered aircraft).
So glad I went for it. Six hours in now (this time round, not including the 17 from 20 years ago), and last Thursday my instructor got out, walked away and sent me solo, just the best feeling!
I'm loving every minute of the training, and cannot wait to start learning properly about nav, radio, and actually getting out of the circuit and doing some xc stuff!
I'm loving every minute of the training, and cannot wait to start learning properly about nav, radio, and actually getting out of the circuit and doing some xc stuff!
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