Lightning 422 - future? AALO exits USA

[ChemicalChaos]

This statement has just popped up on the Anglo American Lightning Organisation's Facebook page. For thos who don't know, AALO has spent the past couple of decades slowly restoring a 2-seat XS422 in America, initially with a goal to ground running and a future eye on flying. The aircraft currently is capable of fast taxi passenger rides.

AALO said:

Announcement *** AALO exits USA to focus on XS452 back to flight project ***
In 1997, the Anglo American Lightning Organisation (AALO) was founded by Andrew Brodie, Jon Roth, Phil Wallis and Max Waldron. We acquired an English Electric Lightning T5, XS422 in the UK and relocated it to Stennis, USA, where it has been meticulously restored back to fast taxi capability.
The project has been led by Chief Engineer Phil Wallis, supported by a regular team of engineers, namely Dave Yates, Dave Tylee, Simon Johnson, Milton Roach, Kelvin Ware, Steve Browning and Jason Skinner. However, over the years many other engineers have also contributed such as Geoff Commins, Rory Elliot, and Nic Woodhouse to name but a few. We are also thankful to pilot Will Ward who has helped us over the years and has fast taxied XS422 on several occasions at Stennis International Airport.
Without the help and support of these volunteers it would not have been possible to reach the position we are in today. It has been a remarkable achievement to all those involved who have selflessly given up their time to support the project over the years. The dedication and commitment of everyone involved has been truly remarkable; And we would like to thank them.
In September 2023, AALO acquired a second Lightning T5, XS452 (formerly ZU BBD) and the entire spares inventory from Hangar 51 PTY in South Africa. After inspecting the aircraft and assessing the supporting equipment and spares, AALO believes we now have a package that is capable of returning a Lightning back to flight and meeting our operational requirements.
After much consideration and with a heavy heart, AALO has decided to exit the USA and will no longer be involved in the restoration project of XS422. We will now dedicate our efforts to return XS452 back to flight by 2026.
Today we are launching our new website www.aalo.club to keep our supporters up to date with all the latest news and information regarding the restoration project. You can also keep up to date on our Facebook page www.facebok.com/AALOclub and at our YouTube Channel www.youtube.com/@aaloclub
As we close the door on the USA, we continue with the same team, and the same dream to return a Lightning back to flight.
We invite you to continue to support us.

It now seems they've gone and bought the South African plane that I assume has been in limbo ever since the fatal crash of its sister some years ago (which, IIRC, was down to poor maintenance?).
The AALO statement is notably light on details of what the future holds for 422, and where the SA jet is going to be based (surely they'd be mad to keep in SA given the current government efforts to transform the country into a new Zimbabwe?).

[zsdom]

I think the replacement of American with Arabian is a big clue

[Simpo Two]

ChemicalChaos said:

The aircraft currently is capable of fast taxi passenger rides

That's enough, no way would I want to fly in one. The thing is basically a fuel tank and two fires.

[heisthegaffer]

I saw this and wondered what has happened? Perhaps the new purchase is far closer to flying?

[Tony1963]

heisthegaffer said:

I saw this and wondered what has happened? Perhaps the new purchase is far closer to flying?

Let’s just hope they pay extra attention to the fuel systems, hydraulic systems, and of course the egress systems. Just for starters.

[heisthegaffer]

Tony1963 said:

heisthegaffer said:

I saw this and wondered what has happened? Perhaps the new purchase is far closer to flying?

Let’s just hope they pay extra attention to the fuel systems, hydraulic systems, and of course the egress systems. Just for starters.

Yes. Very sad what happened to the Thunder City Lightning.

[tim0409]

My dad was an aircraft engineer and spent many years on the Lightnings; he said they needed a LOT of maintenance to keep them safe and flyable. I have a very soft spot for them and would love to see one flying again though.

[aeropilot]

Tony1963 said:

heisthegaffer said:

I saw this and wondered what has happened? Perhaps the new purchase is far closer to flying?

Let’s just hope they pay extra attention to the fuel systems, hydraulic systems, and of course the egress systems. Just for starters.

Well.......part of the problem with what happened in SA, was after Barry Pover parted company with TC, they no longer had anyone in that organisation with any operational knowledge of the beast, and it was sadly only a matter of time before something went wrong.....and that sadly includes the liberties that DS was taking with operating the aircraft the day before the crash (ignoring RAF sop's) - something that he ended up paying with his life for, although, it wasn't his fault that he couldn't get out of the thing......

At least there is some connection with basing '452 in I presume Saudi A, or maybe UAE? as both RSAF and Kuwait operated them.

Such a shame that they couldn't have got XP693 as well, given the condition it was in with low hours.

Will be interesting to see what happens to '422 out in the USA?
Given it was a running airframe, I'm surprised they've not decided to keep it, and relocate it to ME along with '452...?
Maybe they took on some USA based financial partners years ago, and why they've bought '452...?

I'm no longer in contact with anyone connected with it so have no idea of the ins and outs now. Its well over 20 years since I saw spoke with Phil Wallis.

Edited by aeropilot on Monday 22 April 10:55

[Tony1963]

aeropilot said:

At least there is some connection with basing '452 in I presume Saudi A, or maybe UAE? as both RSAF and Kuwait operated them.

Given it was a running airframe, I'm surprised they've not decided to keep it, and relocate it to ME along with '452...?
Maybe they took on some USA based financial partners years ago, and why they've bought '452...?

Edited by aeropilot on Monday 22 April 10:55

I don’t think there’ll be anyone left in Saudi or Kuwait who worked on Lightnings. With BAC/BAe the rule back then was nobody under 30 would be employed out there, so the youngest would be in their 70s.

[aeropilot]

Tony1963 said:

aeropilot said:

At least there is some connection with basing '452 in I presume Saudi A, or maybe UAE? as both RSAF and Kuwait operated them.

Given it was a running airframe, I'm surprised they've not decided to keep it, and relocate it to ME along with '452...?
Maybe they took on some USA based financial partners years ago, and why they've bought '452...?

Edited by aeropilot on Monday 22 April 10:55

I don’t think there’ll be anyone left in Saudi or Kuwait who worked on Lightnings. With BAC/BAe the rule back then was nobody under 30 would be employed out there, so the youngest would be in their 70s.

That wasn't what I was implying.
I meant that from a pov of authorities being maybe 'helpful' to working with an organisation to get one flying, the fact that the RSAF and Kuwaiti's did operate them for 20+ years, might mean that there is a willingness on the part of the authorities to wanting to see one fly in the area again (as its part of their own operational heritage) rather than there might be people out there that worked on them for RSAF etc prior to 1986, which as you say won't be the case. And IIRC, they were all employed by Airwork.....or were initially in the 1970's, not sure if the Airwork contract ran all the way to the end of RSAF use in 1986, without having to dig out the books.

[Tony1963]

I’d put £100 on neither government being interested at all.
They look forwards, not backwards.

[aeropilot]

Tony1963 said:

I’d put £100 on neither government being interested at all.

They wouldn't even be looking at doing this if some sort of preliminary talks with the relevant regulatory aviation authority hadn't already taken place that wasn't shall we say, 'constructive'.

[DP14]

aeropilot said:

Well.......part of the problem with what happened in SA...

Another problem, which was identified in the shocking accident report, was "Majority of the parts in the stores were determined to be beyond their shelf life limit.". Not a situation that's going to have improved 15 years later.

[aeropilot]

DP14 said:

aeropilot said:

Well.......part of the problem with what happened in SA...

Another problem, which was identified in the shocking accident report, was "Majority of the parts in the stores were determined to be beyond their shelf life limit.". Not a situation that's going to have improved 15 years later.

And that's not even touching on the rather large elephant in the room, that back in 2015 or 2016(?) Martin-Baker withdrew all support for their legacy seats not still being operated under a military or Govt contract.

[swampy442]

Thats not an issue, plenty of companies support legacy ejection seats, make cartridges etc, operators like us and others round the world have all that tied up.

Im good friends with one of the guys on the lightning, Ill have to see what he knows

[aeropilot]

swampy442 said:

Thats not an issue, plenty of companies support legacy ejection seats, make cartridges etc, operators like us and others round the world have all that tied up.

You are operating under a military contract though.....?

MB said they would no longer support civ reg'd ex-mil jets?

Isn't this why the Norwegian F-104 has bang seat supply issue's in recent years, even though they are connected with the RNoAF museum etc..?

[dukeboy749r]

Simpo Two said:

ChemicalChaos said:

The aircraft currently is capable of fast taxi passenger rides

That's enough, no way would I want to fly in one. The thing is basically a fuel tank and two fires.

A genuinely fully summary. Which I meant to respond to sooner.

It ranks alongside Clarkson’s: “What is it? Is it a chair leg”? comment in the ‘finding the source of the Nile’ Top Gear episode.

I am still chuckling days later.

[hidetheelephants]

dukeboy749r said:

Simpo Two said:

ChemicalChaos said:

The aircraft currently is capable of fast taxi passenger rides

That's enough, no way would I want to fly in one. The thing is basically a fuel tank and two fires.

A genuinely fully summary. Which I meant to respond to sooner.

It ranks alongside Clarkson’s: “What is it? Is it a chair leg”? comment in the ‘finding the source of the Nile’ Top Gear episode.

I am still chuckling days later.

Worse, it's a leaky fuel tank and two fires with a small tank of AVPIN(essentially rocket fuel) on top for extra explodeyness. It's a wonder Biggles ever survived the 1960s.

[aeropilot]

hidetheelephants said:

dukeboy749r said:

Simpo Two said:

ChemicalChaos said:

The aircraft currently is capable of fast taxi passenger rides

That's enough, no way would I want to fly in one. The thing is basically a fuel tank and two fires.

A genuinely fully summary. Which I meant to respond to sooner.

It ranks alongside Clarkson’s: “What is it? Is it a chair leg”? comment in the ‘finding the source of the Nile’ Top Gear episode.

I am still chuckling days later.

Worse, it's a leaky fuel tank and two fires with a small tank of AVPIN(essentially rocket fuel) on top for extra explodeyness. It's a wonder Biggles ever survived the 1960s.

After the Fire Integrity Programme mods were carried out on the fleet in the late '60's or maybe early 70's(?) they didn't loose that many to in-flight fires, only 6 were lost to in-flight fires during the last 15 years of RAF ops.

[Tony1963]

aeropilot said:

After the Fire Integrity Programme mods were carried out on the fleet in the late '60's or maybe early 70's(?) they didn't loose that many to in-flight fires, only 6 were lost to in-flight fires during the last 15 years of RAF ops.

The big difference being, of course, that it is extremely unlikely that a privately run Lightning will be maintained to anything like the standard that the RAF maintained them to. The intentions may well be good, but once the true cost of keeping a Lightning hits them, financial restrainsts will kick in.