Discussion
Tyre Tread said:
pstruck said:
I was there at Yeovilton for 'that' aborted landing. It was something to behold. A Vulcan on full power passing just a few metres over your head is a truly awesome exerience, not to mention the probable permanent ear damage! 
Pardon?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djd1pPQZ_LE
DamienB said:
I would guess the risks are similar to being a spectator at any motor sport event.
Not if you are standing in an unauthorised area.And, despite what it says on your admission ticket, spectators who have been injured when attending a motor sport event HAVE won damages against the event organisers - as long as the spectator was in a designated area.
Eric Mc said:
Knowing that over the years a number of Vulcans have touched down short of the runway, right under the centreline is not where I would chose to stand.
Having been to numerous such 'arrivals' days over the years I always ensure I am off of the centreline. Plenty of people do still stand there and usually get asked to move several times during the day. It was these people mostly who were seen to be legging it/falling over on that particular approach!
pstruck said:
Having been to numerous such 'arrivals' days over the years I always ensure I am off of the centreline. Plenty of people do still stand there and usually get asked to move several times during the day. It was these people mostly who were seen to be legging it/falling over on that particular approach!
I can think of at least tree instances where a Vulcan touched down short of the runway. In two cases the aircraft was completely destroyed and people killed.I think they must have quite a high sink rate on approach.
Eric Mc said:
pstruck said:
Having been to numerous such 'arrivals' days over the years I always ensure I am off of the centreline. Plenty of people do still stand there and usually get asked to move several times during the day. It was these people mostly who were seen to be legging it/falling over on that particular approach!
I can think of at least tree instances where a Vulcan touched down short of the runway. In two cases the aircraft was completely destroyed and people killed.I think they must have quite a high sink rate on approach.
It was controversial at the time because a Very Senior Officer was in the cockpit for the landing after the Vulcan had flown around the world on a publicity tour; the VSO and the other pilot ejected, everyone else including the pilot who's seat the VSO had taken was killed.
Eric Mc said:
I can think of at least tree instances where a Vulcan touched down short of the runway. In two cases the aircraft was completely destroyed and people killed.
I think they must have quite a high sink rate on approach.
What were the two instances Eric? I assume one of them was the round the world publicity trip, what was the other where there were fatalities?I think they must have quite a high sink rate on approach.
I know of the incident at Wellington but there were no fatalities there.
Eric Mc said:
Knowing that over the years a number of Vulcans have touched down short of the runway, right under the centreline is not where I would chose to stand.
How many landings have Vulcans made in total though without incident? It is a calculated risk, one that I would be prepared to make once just for the experience and photo opportunity.17 out of a production run of 136 have crashed (including 3 on landing, 2 on take off), so that's only a 1 in 8 chance of a crash. But since there's only one flying............
Not all were involving the plane, The Runway Garage at Filton was a casualty as well.
"On 16 September 1960, Vulcan B.2 XH557 wrecked the appropriately named "Runway Garage" at Filton. XH557 had been allocated to Bristol Siddeley Engines to test the Olympus 301 engine and was being delivered to Filton. Approaching in poor weather conditions, the aircraft touched down half way along the runway. The braking parachute was streamed but realising the aircraft would not stop in time, the captain opened the throttles to go round. A street light on the A38 was struck as the aircraft climbed away, leaving a scene of chaos behind it. The Runway Garage took the full force of the blast: four petrol pumps were blown flat; a street light lay across the road; railings were blown over; and cars had their windscreens shattered. The aircraft diverted to St. Mawgan and was flown back to Filton some days later."
Not all were involving the plane, The Runway Garage at Filton was a casualty as well.
"On 16 September 1960, Vulcan B.2 XH557 wrecked the appropriately named "Runway Garage" at Filton. XH557 had been allocated to Bristol Siddeley Engines to test the Olympus 301 engine and was being delivered to Filton. Approaching in poor weather conditions, the aircraft touched down half way along the runway. The braking parachute was streamed but realising the aircraft would not stop in time, the captain opened the throttles to go round. A street light on the A38 was struck as the aircraft climbed away, leaving a scene of chaos behind it. The Runway Garage took the full force of the blast: four petrol pumps were blown flat; a street light lay across the road; railings were blown over; and cars had their windscreens shattered. The aircraft diverted to St. Mawgan and was flown back to Filton some days later."
bigbubba said:
Eric Mc said:
Knowing that over the years a number of Vulcans have touched down short of the runway, right under the centreline is not where I would chose to stand.
How many landings have Vulcans made in total though without incident? It is a calculated risk, one that I would be prepared to make once just for the experience and photo opportunity.There weren't that many Vulcan's ever built (around 100 in total) so to have the number of ground strikes on approach they had does seem high - especially compared to its fellow stablemates, teh Victor and Valiant.
Eric Mc said:
Not if you are standing in an unauthorised area.
There have been more fatalities in the 'authorised' crowd at motor sport events than there have been fatalities of aircraft enthusiasts standing directly under the approach at a military airfield. The latter figure is, as far as I am aware in the UK, zero. There is nothing inherently "unauthorised" about standing under the approach at most airfields - indeed public footpaths run under many of them, and landowners/farmers rarely object. I maintain that the level of risk is therefore somewhat lower than, to pick a recent example, standing in the crowd at Santa Pod.
That doesn't mean it's safe - it isn't - but the actual chances of being wiped out must be up there with lottery-winning odds.
Eric Mc said:
Don't know.
There weren't that many Vulcan's ever built (around 100 in total) so to have the number of ground strikes on approach they had does seem high - especially compared to its fellow stablemates, [n]teh[/b] Victor and Valiant.
The mistyped 'the' is forgivable but the grocer's apostrophe! Eric! There weren't that many Vulcan's ever built (around 100 in total) so to have the number of ground strikes on approach they had does seem high - especially compared to its fellow stablemates, [n]teh[/b] Victor and Valiant.
Eric Mc said:
Don't know.
There weren't that many Vulcan's ever built (around 100 in total) so to have the number of ground strikes on approach they had does seem high - especially compared to its fellow stablemates, teh Victor and Valiant.
It is statistical though isn't it.There weren't that many Vulcan's ever built (around 100 in total) so to have the number of ground strikes on approach they had does seem high - especially compared to its fellow stablemates, teh Victor and Valiant.
Concorde went from being the safest aircraft to fly in to being the most unsafe after just one incident.
DamienB said:
There have been more fatalities in the 'authorised' crowd at motor sport events than there have been fatalities of aircraft enthusiasts standing directly under the approach at a military airfield. The latter figure is, as far as I am aware in the UK, zero.
There is nothing inherently "unauthorised" about standing under the approach at most airfields - indeed public footpaths run under many of them, and landowners/farmers rarely object. I maintain that the level of risk is therefore somewhat lower than, to pick a recent example, standing in the crowd at Santa Pod.
That doesn't mean it's safe - it isn't - but the actual chances of being wiped out must be up there with lottery-winning odds.
I was thinking more of how the event insurers would look at it.There is nothing inherently "unauthorised" about standing under the approach at most airfields - indeed public footpaths run under many of them, and landowners/farmers rarely object. I maintain that the level of risk is therefore somewhat lower than, to pick a recent example, standing in the crowd at Santa Pod.
That doesn't mean it's safe - it isn't - but the actual chances of being wiped out must be up there with lottery-winning odds.
bigbubba said:
It is statistical though isn't it.
Concorde went from being the safest aircraft to fly in to being the most unsafe after just one incident.
You can only compare like with like. The nearest equivalents to the Vulcan were the Victor and Valiant - in both role, performance and operational use and numbers built. That's why I drew a comparison with them and no other aircraft.Concorde went from being the safest aircraft to fly in to being the most unsafe after just one incident.
used C
The Victor and Vulcan had very different lives while in service too.
I used Concorde as an example to show how statistics don't mean a great deal when dealing with aircraft.
Eric Mc said:
You can only compare like with like. The nearest equivalents to the Vulcan were the Victor and Valiant - in both role, performance and operational use and numbers built. That's why I drew a comparison with them and no other aircraft.
Not really a comparison Eric. The Valiant only lasted 10 years in service and there were 136 Vulcans to 86 Victors.The Victor and Vulcan had very different lives while in service too.
I used Concorde as an example to show how statistics don't mean a great deal when dealing with aircraft.
The chance of being killed by a sinking Vulcan is probably statistically fairly high compared to an average punter being killed by any other aircraft type - old plane, crew with not that many hours, all landings with crowds of spotters underneath.
Although they get pretty close in St Maartin too:
Not heard of a plane going into the beach there, but an American Airlines Boeing most definitely did pile into the beach just short of the runway in Kingston, Jamaica not so long ago.
Although they get pretty close in St Maartin too:
Not heard of a plane going into the beach there, but an American Airlines Boeing most definitely did pile into the beach just short of the runway in Kingston, Jamaica not so long ago.
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff