XH558...

[Burrow01]

aeropilot said:

I don't believe they have two zero time airworthy engines.

They do have one zero time unrun engine, that RR would NOT certify for flight, and a very low time engine that was pulled soon after fitting, due to high debris count.

I still think it is a poorly worded press release (not for the first time) and they are fitting the zero time uncertified engine in place of the highest cycled airworthy one, just for the winter anti-det runs to save cycles on that engine?

Just got back from a visit to XH558 and they said that they have two virtually new airworthy engines, these will be fitted over the winter service period

[S7Paul]

Burrow01 said:

Just got back from a visit to XH558 and they said that they have two virtually new airworthy engines, these will be fitted over the winter service period

Very strange. When they had the silica gel ingestion incident it was looking like it might be 'game over', and yet it turns out they had two good engines lying around. I don't recall these being mentioned at the time.

[Eric Mc]

It seems to me that it is wing spar issues which are bringing her flying career to an end - not lack of engines.

[mrloudly]

I thought they had three good engines at the time of the ingestion. Obviously 2 were used leaving one as a spare, maybe not...

[Dr Jekyll]

Eric Mc said:

It seems to me that it is wing spar issues which are bringing her flying career to an end - not lack of engines.

I thought the situation was that the wing spar issue could be fixed, and this would mean it could keep flying until the engines were used up. But it's not worthwhile unless they can find some more engine life from somewhere.

[Burrow01]

This is No3 Engine ( I think) after removal



And these are the two new engines



Well worth a Sunday Service visit, I went on a trip organised by PCGB so also had various Porsches parked outside varying from a 911 GT2RS to a 1963 356, great day out

Edited by Burrow01 on Sunday 21st October 17:09

[Ian Lancs]

Dr Jekyll said:

Eric Mc said:

It seems to me that it is wing spar issues which are bringing her flying career to an end - not lack of engines.

I thought the situation was that the wing spar issue could be fixed

The spar rework can indeed be done - it's all a question of £££ which they don't have (and none of the "industry" involved over the Vulcan life can realistically offer any help. Shareholders don't understand heritage

[onyx39]

Ian Lancs said:

Dr Jekyll said:

Eric Mc said:

It seems to me that it is wing spar issues which are bringing her flying career to an end - not lack of engines.

I thought the situation was that the wing spar issue could be fixed

The spar rework can indeed be done - it's all a question of £££ which they don't have (and none of the "industry" involved over the Vulcan life can realistically offer any help. Shareholders don't understand heritage

Couldn't they get some (more?) lottery funding?

[Dr Jekyll]

onyx39 said:

Couldn't they get some (more?) lottery funding?

They can't get any more lottery funding. They will have to raise money from other sources (as they have done for years and are still doing) to fly it in 2013. It may be possible to raise enough for the winter servicing for 2012/2013 and enough extra to fix the wing spar.

The point is that

A) Getting enough money for the winter servicing is difficult enough so getting the extra would be somewhat ambitious.

and

B) There is no point in spending money on a spar fix if the aircraft is to be grounded a few months later due to lack of engine life.

If they could find some more engine life then they might look at whether they can raise the money for the spar fix. So the two issues can't be disentangled.

[aeropilot]

S7Paul said:

Burrow01 said:

Just got back from a visit to XH558 and they said that they have two virtually new airworthy engines, these will be fitted over the winter service period

Very strange. When they had the silica gel ingestion incident it was looking like it might be 'game over', and yet it turns out they had two good engines lying around. I don't recall these being mentioned at the time.

As already mentioned, these two engines must be the original zero time one left, not certified by RR at the start of the project, and the low-time one that was removed during the first season, that had shown a high debris count. Both must have since been repaired somehow and now given a clean bill of health by RR.....?

[Dr Jekyll]

aeropilot said:

As already mentioned, these two engines must be the original zero time one left, not certified by RR at the start of the project, and the low-time one that was removed during the first season, that had shown a high debris count. Both must have since been repaired somehow and now given a clean bill of health by RR.....?

Might the not certified one be the same one that had corrosion? That would explain a lot.

[aeropilot]

Dr Jekyll said:

aeropilot said:

As already mentioned, these two engines must be the original zero time one left, not certified by RR at the start of the project, and the low-time one that was removed during the first season, that had shown a high debris count. Both must have since been repaired somehow and now given a clean bill of health by RR.....?

Might the not certified one be the same one that had corrosion? That would explain a lot.

I believe that was indeed the reason RR wouldn't OK that engine at the time.

[Richjam]

Assuming they had the money and engine life to warrant the spa mod is it likely the CAA would still grant a permit to fly? As far as I am aware this mod was never carried out on any in service Vulcan and as such is surely going into unchartered territory that I would imsgine might make the CAA a little nervous........

[aeropilot]

Richjam said:

Assuming they had the money and engine life to warrant the spa mod is it likely the CAA would still grant a permit to fly? As far as I am aware this mod was never carried out on any in service Vulcan and as such is surely going into unchartered territory that I would imsgine might make the CAA a little nervous........

I would the CAA would be quite happy with it, on the basis that the mod would be a BAe approved one.
Just because the mod was never done on an in-service airframe doesn't mean that BAe hadn't done the design/testing required for a potential life/extention programme of the Vulcan fleet when the MOD were looking at that as a possibility?

[wedgeinald]

I believe I am correct in saying that the wing spar mod is also hellishly (is that a correct word?) complex, and would only (God forbid) require a small "mistake" to render the airframe useless.

This is another reason not to carry out the mod unless there is a reasonable likelyhood of sufficient extra flying hours.

I'm all for the mod being done if it means we can keep 558 flying, I'd go so far as to say for me personally it would be worth it even if it only meant one more year of her in the sky. I'd be happy to donate extra to a fund purely for the wing spar mod.

Obviously the trust have to consider all the possibilities and that those who donate are getting "value for money", and for that reason it is sensible to plan for 558's future should the spar mod not be possible for one of the many reasons stated in this thread.

[H100S]

Assuming 2013 is the last year can anyone tell me where this plane will rest once its retires?

Stay at Doncaster? (Cant see it myself)
Bruntingthorpe
Cosford?
Duxford?

Somewhere else?

[aeropilot]

H100S said:

Assuming 2013 is the last year can anyone tell me where this plane will rest once its retires?

Stay at Doncaster? (Cant see it myself)

Well, Doncaster is the stated preferred choice of VTTS it seems.

[Burrow01]

Would be a shame not to rest it next to the Victor at Bruntingthorpe along with the other Cold War jets

[aeropilot]

Burrow01 said:

Would be a shame not to rest it next to the Victor at Bruntingthorpe along with the other Cold War jets

I think part of the deal with the Lottery funding was that after it'#s flying days were over '558 had to be 'accessible' as part of an eduction display etc.

Brunty doesn't give that, which is why it was originally invisaged it would go to Duxford, which confused evberyone at the time, as DX already have a Vulcan.

With the deal of using Doncaster after not being able to use RAF bases, once Lyneham closed it's doors, openned up the possiblity of her ending her days there. It's more appropiate as well, given '558 spent time there in service when RAF Finningley was a major V-Bomber base, and she'll have a roof over her head on a more regular basis.

I also would like to think, that once grounded, they will raise some funds, to repaint '558, into a more representative Cold War scheme. Preferably the anti-flash white she wore when first delivered to the RAF.

Edited by aeropilot on Thursday 25th October 09:24

[Ali Chappussy]

wedgeinald said:

I believe I am correct in saying that the wing spar mod is also hellishly (is that a correct word?) complex, and would only (God forbid) require a small "mistake" to render the airframe useless.

I can confirm that the front spar mod is a very complex operation which requires special tools and jigs. Not sure about the one mistake and it's useless comment but when we did front spar changes at Bitteswell it involved a very skilled workforce who concentrated only on front spars, so you can imagine over the years how many of them they did before we were shut down by that bh Thatcher.