XH558...

[SMB]

At a talk given by the trust, the high debris count engine, could potentially be recovered as with ground running and frequent fluid changes it is possible to the debris count in some instances ( ie wearing the unit in), the challenge was that ground running like that costs money.

[aeropilot]

SMB said:

At a talk given by the trust, the high debris count engine, could potentially be recovered as with ground running and frequent fluid changes it is possible to the debris count in some instances ( ie wearing the unit in), the challenge was that ground running like that costs money.

That would tie in with their vague statement about using the winter anti-det schedule for 'running-in' this 'new' engine. That engine was pulled during the first display season, so is still very low time, and I would guess that's the engine they are putting back in.......

[H100S]

aeropilot said:

Well, Doncaster is the stated preferred choice of VTTS it seems.

It would be great if it did selfishly as its my home town. I just think on its own it wont draw the crowds as a engineering show piece leading to the demise of the project then becoming neglected.

I'd love to hear those engines roar down a runway as a show piece but I don't see this happening at a Doncaster. What if Doncaster airport was to close?

I would like to see it in a proper museum like Duxford so it has a bright future even when grounded.

[Richjam]

aeropilot said:

I think part of the deal with the Lottery funding was that after it'#s flying days were over '558 had to be 'accessible' as part of an eduction display etc.

Brunty doesn't give that, which is why it was originally invisaged it would go to Duxford, which confused evberyone at the time, as DX already have a Vulcan.

With the deal of using Doncaster after not being able to use RAF bases, once Lyneham closed it's doors, openned up the possiblity of her ending her days there. It's more appropiate as well, given '558 spent time there in service when RAF Finningley was a major V-Bomber base, and she'll have a roof over her head on a more regular basis.

I also would like to think, that once grounded, they will raise some funds, to repaint '558, into a more representative Cold War scheme. Preferably the anti-flash white she wore when first delivered to the RAF.

Edited by aeropilot on Thursday 25th October 09:24

Really seems a waste of time leaving it at Doncaster I doubt they will raise much interest once it is grounded afterall there are several Vulcans viewable at different museums why would anyone go to Doncaster to see XH558 when there is nothing else there? As has been said Bruntingthorpe is ideal im sure David Walton would look favourably at having it back there.

[ATTAK Z]

H100S said:

aeropilot said:

Well, Doncaster is the stated preferred choice of VTTS it seems.

It would be great if it did selfishly as its my home town. I just think on its own it wont draw the crowds as a engineering show piece leading to the demise of the project then becoming neglected.

I'd love to hear those engines roar down a runway as a show piece but I don't see this happening at a Doncaster. What if Doncaster airport was to close?

I would like to see it in a proper museum like Duxford so it has a bright future even when grounded.

I'm biased too as I've always lived within 6 miles of Finningley ('cept when I was in Africa and Saudi), but I think the permanent resting place should be Elvington where there is a proper museum.

[H100S]

ATTAK Z said:

I'm biased too as I've always lived within 6 miles of Finningley ('cept when I was in Africa and Saudi), but I think the permanent resting place should be Elvington where there is a proper museum.

I like this but it could do with another hanger. It would be nice to squeeze the victor in too and their lightening is desperate to go indoors too.

[aeropilot]

H100S said:

ATTAK Z said:

I'm biased too as I've always lived within 6 miles of Finningley ('cept when I was in Africa and Saudi), but I think the permanent resting place should be Elvington where there is a proper museum.

I like this but it could do with another hanger. It would be nice to squeeze the victor in too and their lightening is desperate to go indoors too.

I agree with this.

Elvington I think is the best place as well, and would allow joint fund raising to build a hangar for both the Vulcan and Victor, as part of an 'active' Cold War exhibit.

[Extra 300 Driver]

Ali Chappussy said:

wedgeinald said:

I believe I am correct in saying that the wing spar mod is also hellishly (is that a correct word?) complex, and would only (God forbid) require a small "mistake" to render the airframe useless.

I can confirm that the front spar mod is a very complex operation which requires special tools and jigs. Not sure about the one mistake and it's useless comment but when we did front spar changes at Bitteswell it involved a very skilled workforce who concentrated only on front spars, so you can imagine over the years how many of them they did before we were shut down by that bh Thatcher.

There are other airframes around which have already had theses mods done, XL426 at EGMC for example. I wonder how much it would cost for an airframe overhaul, D check, then transfer all the kit, with life on it from 558. I mean all the expensive stuff would still have life on it and I am sure you could open channels and get the engine life extended from its crazy short life which they have at the moment. RR reduced the engine life due to a number of engine failures during the initial testing on 558 before and after her return to flight.

I hear all of these failure were due to mishandling, leaving gel bags in the intake, not having the aircraft in to wind on high power runs.

[j4ckos mate]

I reckon,
park it up in the middle of one of the roundabouts by Manchester airport,
in the taking off position nose wheel up in the air, so everyone can see it,
it would look great, and quite near to woodford as well, maybe even incorporate it on the airport eastern link new road somewhere.

[aeropilot]

j4ckos mate said:

I reckon,
park it up in the middle of one of the roundabouts by Manchester airport,
in the taking off position nose wheel up in the air, so everyone can see it,
it would look great, and quite near to woodford as well, maybe even incorporate it on the airport eastern link new road somewhere.

You might as well do that with the one that's already there...........

[radlet6]

Richjam said:

aeropilot said:

I think part of the deal with the Lottery funding was that after it'#s flying days were over '558 had to be 'accessible' as part of an eduction display etc.

Brunty doesn't give that, which is why it was originally invisaged it would go to Duxford, which confused evberyone at the time, as DX already have a Vulcan.

With the deal of using Doncaster after not being able to use RAF bases, once Lyneham closed it's doors, openned up the possiblity of her ending her days there. It's more appropiate as well, given '558 spent time there in service when RAF Finningley was a major V-Bomber base, and she'll have a roof over her head on a more regular basis.

I also would like to think, that once grounded, they will raise some funds, to repaint '558, into a more representative Cold War scheme. Preferably the anti-flash white she wore when first delivered to the RAF.

Edited by aeropilot on Thursday 25th October 09:24

Really seems a waste of time leaving it at Doncaster I doubt they will raise much interest once it is grounded afterall there are several Vulcans viewable at different museums why would anyone go to Doncaster to see XH558 when there is nothing else there? As has been said Bruntingthorpe is ideal im sure David Walton would look favourably at having it back there.

Because the site has no affinity with the Vulcan whatsoever, where as Finningley...

Because some of us don't live in the South or middle England.

My old Dad used to be a sparky at RAF Fininngley in the '60's and still lives within 10 miles of the old base. Thing is he can't travel far now and I would dearly love to be able to take him to see one again.

So plus 2 more for the Sunday Service please.

[Extra 300 Driver]

They should put her back in to Bruntingthorpe. There are teams to run her every couple of months and they have regular open days. Seems the most sensible choice

[Richjam]

radlet6 said:

Because the site has no affinity with the Vulcan whatsoever, where as Finningley...

Because some of us don't live in the South or middle England.

My old Dad used to be a sparky at RAF Fininngley in the '60's and still lives within 10 miles of the old base. Thing is he can't travel far now and I would dearly love to be able to take him to see one again.

So plus 2 more for the Sunday Service please.

Well why not take him to Newark Air Museum XM594 is parked there plus lots of other aircraft its only 40 miles down the A1 from Doncaster. As for XH558 it has alot of affinity with Bruntingthorpe as David Walton brought it and the available spares from the RAF when they decided to retire her and at least she would get to do fast taxi runs. Robin Hood(Finningley) is a commercial airfield now so I cant see there being much opportunity for fast taxi runs.Plus when the cash runs out I suspect they will want their hangar back so you could well end up in a situation that XH558 is sat at the back of the airfield unable to fly and could even end up being scrapped.

[ATTAK Z]

Richjam said:

Well why not take him to Newark Air Museum XM594 is parked there plus lots of other aircraft its only 40 miles down the A1 from Doncaster. As for XH558 it has alot of affinity with Bruntingthorpe as David Walton brought it and the available spares from the RAF when they decided to retire her and at least she would get to do fast taxi runs. Robin Hood(Finningley) is a commercial airfield now so I cant see there being much opportunity for fast taxi runs.Plus when the cash runs out I suspect they will want their hangar back so you could well end up in a situation that XH558 is sat at the back of the airfield unable to fly and could even end up being scrapped.

brought it ? from where ?

[Richjam]

Pretty much all on this page http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/vulcan/tot...

[spitfire-ian]

The latest news letter explains the engine situation a bit more.

VTST said:

You might recall a few weeks ago, we changed over one of our engines to re-install the one previously taken out in 2008 because of a higher than expected debris count in the oil. The magnetic chip detectors used to collect metallic particles in the engine's oil circuit were indicating the possibility of damage or rather more wear in moving parts than was being experienced in our other three engines. This obviously needed to be investigated further, and the engine was removed from XH558.

Parts of this engine was subsequently subject to a close borescopic inspection: no obvious concerns were identified and so we currently suspect that the observed contamination was possibly from debris left after the build of the engine. This sort of debris has been found to clear after sustained engine running.

Our plan now is to run this engine with the others during the planned servicing engine runs that will take place over the winter, and to monitor the debris counts in the magnetic chip detectors. If the debris situation stabilises, then after engineering review, it may prove possible to return this engine to airworthiness.

[aeropilot]

spitfire-ian said:

The latest news letter explains the engine situation a bit more.

VTST said:

You might recall a few weeks ago, we changed over one of our engines to re-install the one previously taken out in 2008 because of a higher than expected debris count in the oil. The magnetic chip detectors used to collect metallic particles in the engine's oil circuit were indicating the possibility of damage or rather more wear in moving parts than was being experienced in our other three engines. This obviously needed to be investigated further, and the engine was removed from XH558.

Parts of this engine was subsequently subject to a close borescopic inspection: no obvious concerns were identified and so we currently suspect that the observed contamination was possibly from debris left after the build of the engine. This sort of debris has been found to clear after sustained engine running.

Our plan now is to run this engine with the others during the planned servicing engine runs that will take place over the winter, and to monitor the debris counts in the magnetic chip detectors. If the debris situation stabilises, then after engineering review, it may prove possible to return this engine to airworthiness.

Pretty much clarifies what I summised then

Fingers crossed.

[gazapc]

Some good behind the scenes photos from Doncaster of the last flight of the season
http://www.vulcantothesky.org/news/412/82/Behind-t...

[eccles]

gazapc said:

Some good behind the scenes photos from Doncaster of the last flight of the season
http://www.vulcantothesky.org/news/412/82/Behind-t...

Shame there's not more pics of the groundcrew.

[Ian Lancs]

Seems like they've admitted defeat (if the beeb is to be believed)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshi...