Discussion
fatboy69 said:
How long, I wonder, will it be before the RIAT organisers announce that they have 'found' a full display slot for 558 over the weekend.
I know that the public do not have a god-given right to see 558 at RIAT, or anywhere else for that matter, however I had always assumed that 558 would be at RIAT until she was unable to fly any longer.
It's a disgrace & the organisers deserve all the s
t that will be thrown their way over the coming weeks.
I know that the public do not have a god-given right to see 558 at RIAT, or anywhere else for that matter, however I had always assumed that 558 would be at RIAT until she was unable to fly any longer.
It's a disgrace & the organisers deserve all the s
t that will be thrown their way over the coming weeks.Dr Jekyll said:
eccles said:
Or (playing devils advocate), perhaps they shouldn't have told everyone they were going to be there until their slot was confirmed.....
They didn't.I don't understand why there is so much hate towards RIAT on here, it's annoying that the Vulcan wont be there but not the end of the world, the main reason I'm going is to see the F35, the Red arrows and other display teams (which is RIATs reason there isn't enough space for the Vulcan).
Whilst the Vulcan is amazing to see, lets not pretend the air display is as impressive as some of the display teams efforts.
Whilst the Vulcan is amazing to see, lets not pretend the air display is as impressive as some of the display teams efforts.
eccles said:
So why all the disappointment? Why would the staff be at risk from disgruntled punters expecting to see the Vulcan to fly if no one said it was going to be flying there? Or are plane spotters getting their knickers in a twist when they have no reason to?
nonuts said:
I don't understand why there is so much hate towards RIAT on here, it's annoying that the Vulcan wont be there but not the end of the world, the main reason I'm going is to see the F35, the Red arrows and other display teams (which is RIATs reason there isn't enough space for the Vulcan).
Whilst the Vulcan is amazing to see, lets not pretend the air display is as impressive as some of the display teams efforts.
Maybe it's because this is the Vulcan thread and not the RIAT thread, hence people posting on here are the ones who want and/or expect to be able to see the Vulcan at RIAT. Whilst the Vulcan is amazing to see, lets not pretend the air display is as impressive as some of the display teams efforts.
I personally WILL be going to RIAT as it will still be a cracking airshow, however I stand by my earlier comments.
I think some of the issue is that people have contributed to the VTTS fund through the years (including myself) and to expecting to be able to see the Vulcan at such a prestigious show is not unwarranted. The Vulcan will not be displaying through its unavailability, it will not be displaying because it has been ruled out by the RIAT organisers.
Given the price of big airshow tickets, surely you can understand why people will be disappointed! For some this may be the only airshow they can get to this year where the presence of the Vulcan should almost be a certainty.
Whilst people understand that the 'I' stands for 'International', this is still a British airshow.. All our forces put on a great show, but this will not be the first year we can't afford a role demo. Having the Vulcan up there makes up for a hell of a lot, and despite its age, still shows how bloody well we could design an aircraft.
eccles said:
So why all the disappointment? Why would the staff be at risk from disgruntled punters expecting to see the Vulcan to fly if no one said it was going to be flying there? Or are plane spotters getting their knickers in a twist when they have no reason to?
VTTS have experienced negativity from halfwits before, though. They regularly have to field dumbass questions from dumbasses asking the exact same dumbass thing as the dumbass stood immediately ahead of them in the queue to speak to someone to 'complain' about the fact that 558's display has been pulled. It happened at Farnborough when the brakes cooked on landing, and Marshalls wouldn't send a repair crew out on a weekend. Partly the pilot's fault (they were trying to save a parachute, and associated costs) but the fact was that the Vulcan couldn't be displayed on the Sunday because it wasn't airworthy at that particular time. But dumbasses don't understand safety concerns. All they know is that they promised Sebastian and Petronella they were going to see the Vulcan fly on Sunday, and now they will be disappointed. Boo bloody Hoo. Old stuff in mechanical breakdown shocker!People should read the smallprint on their tickets and display programmes. No airshow organiser EVER solemnly promises the appearance of a particular aircraft in a particular display, simply because they know for a fact that they cannot guarantee availability of an aircraft, especially one as old and complex as the Vulcan.
So I'm with the trust on this one. If they are programmed for 'static only' there will still be idiots who see "Vulcan" on the RIAT website, but selectively edit out the 'static display only' part, then try to kick up a fuss and ask for a refund or some other mad s
t when it, as planned, plays no part in the flying display. Despite the fact that it's a missed opportunity to trade, I'd also imagine that their merchandise operation does more business when it attends a show where the old bird actually does a full display.If you are a fan of RIAT and planned to attend anyway, you'll still go. I imagine they Red Arrows anniversary celebration will be entertaining. If you are a fan of XH558, don't go. Simple as that. Check their website, find a suitable alternative display and attend that instead. Easy Peasy ,Lemon Squeezy!
I won't be drawn to give an opinion about the online tit-for-tat between VTTS and RIAT. I haven't bothered with Fairford for years. The last time I went was when that Aeritalia G222 suffered a nose gear collapse on landing. That was 2002 and I've not bothered since, as it's static park and flying displays are not a patch on the 'good old days'. But then again, no modern airshow is anywhere near as exciting or interesting as, say, the 1970s. All I end up feeling is sad at how small the RAF and FAA have shrunk to, how little the USAF care about supplying aircraft for the show, and how the flying displays no longer thrill me to my very core. The last time I think I was truly excited about Fairford was the year that they celebrated Fat Albert's 40th birthday...
...Bears, Mig 21s, Spanish Matadors, the Comet, Concord, Lansen, Draken, A10, Mirage. The list goes on. My biggest thrill was that I got to go onboard the USAF AC-130 in the static park. Having watched them operating in Iraq three years earlier it was good to meet the crew and get shown around what was then the oldest C-130 airframe still in service. 1994 was also the first year of XH558's retirement, after it's farewell season the previous year.
Edited by yellowjack on Friday 30th May 23:52
Quite simply it's a disgrace ! Last year 558 got shunted to the warm-up routine and by the grace of God I arrived at the airfield 5 mins before her display.
I had wrongly assumed she would be one of the show's closers later on in the afternoon. The atmosphere in the static display tent afterwards was very tense
as many disgruntled supporters were harangueing the volunteers thinking they had some responsibility for the flight programme. So on that basis I'm
with the Trust.
I've had a look at some of the aircraft attending - Algerian Airforce Hercules, Oman Airforce Hercules, Jordainian Air Force Hercules ! exciting ? NOT
The organisers seem quite happy to invite the German Army, Navy and Airforce ahead of one of our iconic Cold War aircraft in what may be her last season.
Their loss. I'm going to go to Wings and Wheels instead - 558 plus the 2 Lancasters.
I had wrongly assumed she would be one of the show's closers later on in the afternoon. The atmosphere in the static display tent afterwards was very tense
as many disgruntled supporters were harangueing the volunteers thinking they had some responsibility for the flight programme. So on that basis I'm
with the Trust.
I've had a look at some of the aircraft attending - Algerian Airforce Hercules, Oman Airforce Hercules, Jordainian Air Force Hercules ! exciting ? NOT
The organisers seem quite happy to invite the German Army, Navy and Airforce ahead of one of our iconic Cold War aircraft in what may be her last season.
Their loss. I'm going to go to Wings and Wheels instead - 558 plus the 2 Lancasters.
yellowjack said:
eccles said:
So why all the disappointment? Why would the staff be at risk from disgruntled punters expecting to see the Vulcan to fly if no one said it was going to be flying there? Or are plane spotters getting their knickers in a twist when they have no reason to?
VTTS have experienced negativity from halfwits before, though. They regularly have to field dumbass questions from dumbasses asking the exact same dumbass thing as the dumbass stood immediately ahead of them in the queue to speak to someone to 'complain' about the fact that 558's display has been pulled. It happened at Farnborough when the brakes cooked on landing, and Marshalls wouldn't send a repair crew out on a weekend. Partly the pilot's fault (they were trying to save a parachute, and associated costs) but the fact was that the Vulcan couldn't be displayed on the Sunday because it wasn't airworthy at that particular time. But dumbasses don't understand safety concerns. All they know is that they promised Sebastian and Petronella they were going to see the Vulcan fly on Sunday, and now they will be disappointed. Boo bloody Hoo. Old stuff in mechanical breakdown shocker!People should read the smallprint on their tickets and display programmes. No airshow organiser EVER solemnly promises the appearance of a particular aircraft in a particular display, simply because they know for a fact that they cannot guarantee availability of an aircraft, especially one as old and complex as the Vulcan.
So I'm with the trust on this one. If they are programmed for 'static only' there will still be idiots who see "Vulcan" on the RIAT website, but selectively edit out the 'static display only' part, then try to kick up a fuss and ask for a refund or some other mad s
t when it, as planned, plays no part in the flying display. Despite the fact that it's a missed opportunity to trade, I'd also imagine that their merchandise operation does more business when it attends a show where the old bird actually does a full display.If you are a fan of RIAT and planned to attend anyway, you'll still go. I imagine they Red Arrows anniversary celebration will be entertaining. If you are a fan of XH558, don't go. Simple as that. Check their website, find a suitable alternative display and attend that instead. Easy Peasy ,Lemon Squeezy!
I won't be drawn to give an opinion about the online tit-for-tat between VTTS and RIAT. I haven't bothered with Fairford for years. The last time I went was when that Aeritalia G222 suffered a nose gear collapse on landing. That was 2002 and I've not bothered since, as it's static park and flying displays are not a patch on the 'good old days'. But then again, no modern airshow is anywhere near as exciting or interesting as, say, the 1970s. All I end up feeling is sad at how small the RAF and FAA have shrunk to, how little the USAF care about supplying aircraft for the show, and how the flying displays no longer thrill me to my very core. The last time I think I was truly excited about Fairford was the year that they celebrated Fat Albert's 40th birthday...
...Bears, Mig 21s, Spanish Matadors, the Comet, Concord, Lansen, Draken, A10, Mirage. The list goes on. My biggest thrill was that I got to go onboard the USAF AC-130 in the static park. Having watched them operating in Iraq three years earlier it was good to meet the crew and get shown around what was then the oldest C-130 airframe still in service. 1994 was also the first year of XH558's retirement, after it's farewell season the previous year.
Edited by yellowjack on Friday 30th May 23:52
I think you're missing the point. You'll always have idiots who don't read the small print, but if VTTS publish an events schedule, they should put in large letters 'provisional' or 'subject to confirmation' next to any event where their attendance is not confirmed.
At least that way you'll stop idiots moaning about the Vulcan not being at an event it was never confirmed to attend!
eccles said:
... but if VTTS publish an events schedule, they should put in large letters 'provisional' or 'subject to confirmation' next to any event where their attendance is not confirmed....
Have they (did they) actually state they would be at RIAT?I've not seen that myself, and it certainly wasn't shown on the Display/Tours link on the website for this year.
Ledaig said:
eccles said:
... but if VTTS publish an events schedule, they should put in large letters 'provisional' or 'subject to confirmation' next to any event where their attendance is not confirmed....
Have they (did they) actually state they would be at RIAT?I've not seen that myself, and it certainly wasn't shown on the Display/Tours link on the website for this year.
eccles said:
Ledaig said:
eccles said:
... but if VTTS publish an events schedule, they should put in large letters 'provisional' or 'subject to confirmation' next to any event where their attendance is not confirmed....
Have they (did they) actually state they would be at RIAT?I've not seen that myself, and it certainly wasn't shown on the Display/Tours link on the website for this year.
Ledaig said:
eccles said:
Why is everyone saying that RIAT are shafting VTTS if they weren't down to be there....?
If you read the previous posts you will clearly see the answer you are seeking.I can understand people being disappointed that such a popular draw isn't going to be there, but no one said it was, and somehow RIAT are getting the blame!
eccles said:
So you're blaming RIAT for not pandering to your whim?
I can understand people being disappointed that such a popular draw isn't going to be there, but no one said it was, and somehow RIAT are getting the blame!
I'm not entirely sure why you're struggling with the concept of people expecting to go a what amounts to the largest airshow we have and have a reasonable expectation for this particular aircraft to be there - and flying at that.I can understand people being disappointed that such a popular draw isn't going to be there, but no one said it was, and somehow RIAT are getting the blame!
Clearly VTTS felt they should be there are were prepared to be, clearly Vulcan enthusiasts felt the same way. The only people who didn't are the RIAT organisers and people such as yourself.
well that's made the decision for me ... No RIAT tickets this year. The price is getting hard especially as our son is now 16 and due an adult ticket, and the Vulcan would be the thing that justified the cost. I really don't want to see multiples of the same aircraft type from different Air Forces. Can't they bump one of the F16's ?
As an early poster said, it's not as good as prev years, and I too was there in 2002 when we got to watch a live aircraft recovery demonstration
As an early poster said, it's not as good as prev years, and I too was there in 2002 when we got to watch a live aircraft recovery demonstration
paul_y3 said:
The price is getting hard especially as our son is now 16 and due an adult ticket, and the Vulcan would be the thing that justified the cost.
I really don't get it -call me dumb if you want-, but altough being disappointed as anybody else that the Vulcan will not be part of the show, I think it's unfair to say that a missing flight makes the rest of the programme not worth a visit.paul_y3k said:
well that's made the decision for me ... No RIAT tickets this year. The price is getting hard especially as our son is now 16 and due an adult ticket, and the Vulcan would be the thing that justified the cost. I really don't want to see multiples of the same aircraft type from different Air Forces. Can't they bump one of the F16's ?
As an early poster said, it's not as good as prev years, and I too was there in 2002 when we got to watch a live aircraft recovery demonstration
The participation list so far confirmed isn't anything to write home about at all. USN Super Hornet is a relative rarity granted, but otherwise......Waddo has a much better flying display lineup this year so far.As an early poster said, it's not as good as prev years, and I too was there in 2002 when we got to watch a live aircraft recovery demonstration
I think the fundamental point here is that we know 558 only has a few more shows in her, and the likelihood of anyone else putting up the cash to return another Vulcan to the skies is so slender as to be to all intents and purposes non-existent.
So any show that chooses not to give her a display slot ought to have a damn good reason for giving up an increasingly rare opportunity to include such an iconic crowd-drawing aircraft, and having looked over the confirmed flying participants list for this year's RIAT I really don't see that reason.
So any show that chooses not to give her a display slot ought to have a damn good reason for giving up an increasingly rare opportunity to include such an iconic crowd-drawing aircraft, and having looked over the confirmed flying participants list for this year's RIAT I really don't see that reason.
I have to agree with twister, it's a real shame so many people will miss seeing a genuinely iconic aircraft that only has a few displays left to fly. I was waiting for confirmation of the Vulcan before I purchased my RIAT tickets. I'm glad I did as it's a real puller for me. It's a very strange decision they've made, it doesn't seem to have done them any favours.
Just hoping it'll get a slot at Eastbourne.
Just hoping it'll get a slot at Eastbourne.
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