Engine assembly on a large scale..

[shirt]

but how are they joined?

[dudleybloke]

i'v worked on some largeish jobs before but nothing anywhere near this big.

how big is the measuring equipment for these jobs.

and regarding the ppe, there's still a few firms working like this!

[King Herald]

shirt said:

but how are they joined?

Probably pressed together, with an interference fit of a couple of thou. Maybe a keyway or dowel in there too.

[bazking69]

The scale simply boggles the mind!

[dr_gn]

cazzer said:

Just makes me nostalgic over what this country was and what it is now.

Bet there isn't an engineering shop left in this country that could build that now.

Either Sheffield Forgemasters and/or Davy Markham could probably still do it (manufacture all components, assemble and test). In fact, it looks very much like Forgemasters' South Machine Shop in the O/P's pictures. Having said that, I guess in the distant past, places like that were relatively common, and would all look fairly similar.

[perdu]

the engineering is awesome, both on the original machine work pictures and in the Jap later style of engines

as a retired Toolmaker/engineer I love to see this stuff

thanks

by the way

The T-Rex isnt. Its a raptor (Grandson just told me. Note the attack claw on the rear feet, he says...)

Edited by perdu on Monday 9th November 13:20

[dr_gn]

dudleybloke said:

how big is the measuring equipment for these jobs.

Just a larger version of micrometers, calipers etc., combined with plumb lines, dumpy levels and other mesurement methods more associated with surverying:



Similar methods still used today, probably combined with a laser tracker.

[shirt]

dr_gn said:

cazzer said:

Just makes me nostalgic over what this country was and what it is now.

Bet there isn't an engineering shop left in this country that could build that now.

Either Sheffield Forgemasters and/or Davy Markham could probably still do it (manufacture all components, assemble and test). In fact, it looks very much like Forgemasters' South Machine Shop in the O/P's pictures. Having said that, I guess in the distant past, places like that were relatively common, and would all look fairly similar.

we could make that on site at a push i reckon. might have to fab. some tooling first but the capability is there.

british engineering isn't dead yet, it just exists in small pockets and big jobs require collaboration.

[dr_gn]

shirt said:

dr_gn said:

cazzer said:

Just makes me nostalgic over what this country was and what it is now.

Bet there isn't an engineering shop left in this country that could build that now.

Either Sheffield Forgemasters and/or Davy Markham could probably still do it (manufacture all components, assemble and test). In fact, it looks very much like Forgemasters' South Machine Shop in the O/P's pictures. Having said that, I guess in the distant past, places like that were relatively common, and would all look fairly similar.

we could make that on site at a push i reckon. might have to fab. some tooling first but the capability is there.

british engineering isn't dead yet, it just exists in small pockets and big jobs require collaboration.

Where do you work?

[shirt]

steelworks. workshops do 'big stuff' projects from time to time. this would be a stretch but i reckon we would have the kit to make it within the group.

[cazzer]

dr_gn said:

cazzer said:

Just makes me nostalgic over what this country was and what it is now.

Bet there isn't an engineering shop left in this country that could build that now.

Either Sheffield Forgemasters and/or Davy Markham could probably still do it (manufacture all components, assemble and test). In fact, it looks very much like Forgemasters' South Machine Shop in the O/P's pictures. Having said that, I guess in the distant past, places like that were relatively common, and would all look fairly similar.

Sad thing is, that isn't the distant past.
It's probably in my lifetime, just.

How quickly britains engineering declined is the scary thing (as well as by how much)

[hidetheelephants]

cazzer said:

dr_gn said:

cazzer said:

Just makes me nostalgic over what this country was and what it is now.

Bet there isn't an engineering shop left in this country that could build that now.

Either Sheffield Forgemasters and/or Davy Markham could probably still do it (manufacture all components, assemble and test). In fact, it looks very much like Forgemasters' South Machine Shop in the O/P's pictures. Having said that, I guess in the distant past, places like that were relatively common, and would all look fairly similar.

Sad thing is, that isn't the distant past.
It's probably in my lifetime, just.

How quickly britains engineering declined is the scary thing (as well as by how much)

I take issue with that; it was never really an engineering decline. We still have the ability to make these things, we merely lack the political will to create a business/tax environment conducive to what is a cyclical heavy industry. Some of the shipyards went under through poor management; others, like Harland & Woolf, Pickersgill et al had focused and able management and only ran into problems when the government started messing with them in the 1970s.

Twenty years ago no-one outside Finland/Russia bothered with Finnish shipyards; look at them now, a combination of smart management and a benign tax/legislative environment has won them a fairly impressive market share.

[King Herald]

hidetheelephants said:

cazzer said:

dr_gn said:

cazzer said:

Just makes me nostalgic over what this country was and what it is now.

Bet there isn't an engineering shop left in this country that could build that now.

Either Sheffield Forgemasters and/or Davy Markham could probably still do it (manufacture all components, assemble and test). In fact, it looks very much like Forgemasters' South Machine Shop in the O/P's pictures. Having said that, I guess in the distant past, places like that were relatively common, and would all look fairly similar.

Sad thing is, that isn't the distant past.
It's probably in my lifetime, just.

How quickly britains engineering declined is the scary thing (as well as by how much)

I take issue with that; it was never really an engineering decline. We still have the ability to make these things, we merely lack the political will to create a business/tax environment conducive to what is a cyclical heavy industry.

I started my machine shop apprenticeship in 1976, and as far as I know it was one of the last few years they did them. Not long after it was all YOPs and stuff like that.

Even our local college, where I did my first years training, has turned its huge machine shop into a huge computer room, with dozens of desks replacing the lathes, millers, shapers etc.

[dr_gn]

King Herald said:

hidetheelephants said:

cazzer said:

dr_gn said:

cazzer said:

Just makes me nostalgic over what this country was and what it is now.

Bet there isn't an engineering shop left in this country that could build that now.

Either Sheffield Forgemasters and/or Davy Markham could probably still do it (manufacture all components, assemble and test). In fact, it looks very much like Forgemasters' South Machine Shop in the O/P's pictures. Having said that, I guess in the distant past, places like that were relatively common, and would all look fairly similar.

Sad thing is, that isn't the distant past.
It's probably in my lifetime, just.

How quickly britains engineering declined is the scary thing (as well as by how much)

I take issue with that; it was never really an engineering decline. We still have the ability to make these things, we merely lack the political will to create a business/tax environment conducive to what is a cyclical heavy industry.

I started my machine shop apprenticeship in 1976, and as far as I know it was one of the last few years they did them. Not long after it was all YOPs and stuff like that.

Even our local college, where I did my first years training, has turned its huge machine shop into a huge computer room, with dozens of desks replacing the lathes, millers, shapers etc.

We still have the ability to make these things, but the number of places able to do so has drastically reduced. Also, from what I've seen, the problem in the future will be finding workers (at least British workers) with the right skills to operate this type of machinery.

I bought my lathe from a guy who had just taken the last lathes out of the last local technical college (and this is in an area renowned for heavy industry and engineering). Most local school lathes have more or less all gone now too.

[GnuBee]

EINSIGN said:

Celt said:

lol CNC forums!

Yes I know it’s a bit nerdy, but I have been searching around for dxf sample files to use with the new router machine I am having installed this month.

One of the first sample tests we will be making is this T-Rex, to give to some of our customers before Christmas:

What machine out of interest and have you sorted out which software?

I bought a Heiz CNC-Step from Germany at the beginning of the year - the machine was "cheap" the software is by far the largest cost in time and money.

I'm guessing you already frequent www.cnczone.com ?

[The Black Flash]

Pesty said:

I wonder how much pressure this guy is under. The crank is almost fully assembled and he is doing some machine cutting I think.

One slip and he not the most popular man in the factory

Edited by Pesty on Saturday 7th November 16:54

That is a fecking big lathe
Cool pics, thanks.

[hidetheelephants]

dr_gn said:

King Herald said:

hidetheelephants said:

cazzer said:

dr_gn said:

cazzer said:

stuff

stuff

stuff

waffle

I started my machine shop apprenticeship in 1976, and as far as I know it was one of the last few years they did them. Not long after it was all YOPs and stuff like that.

Even our local college, where I did my first years training, has turned its huge machine shop into a huge computer room, with dozens of desks replacing the lathes, millers, shapers etc.

We still have the ability to make these things, but the number of places able to do so has drastically reduced. Also, from what I've seen, the problem in the future will be finding workers (at least British workers) with the right skills to operate this type of machinery.

I bought my lathe from a guy who had just taken the last lathes out of the last local technical college (and this is in an area renowned for heavy industry and engineering). Most local school lathes have more or less all gone now too.

A good point, but these days so little is needed to be done by craftsmen or artisans like the guys in the brown dustcoats and flatcaps in the pictures. The vast majority of it is CNC now(although that in itself requires a special skill set). Of the component parts and manufacturing processes needed for a slow speed diesel, the only one which is basically as it was then is the foundrywork; coming up with a reliable pattern/mould shape and pouring the metal hasn't changed much at all. The only other time they break out the old guys with experience is when the shipyard mateys have cocked it up and bent/broken something, and hand fitting onsite is quicker than removing it and shipping back to the factory.

[dr_gn]

hidetheelephants said:

dr_gn said:

King Herald said:

hidetheelephants said:

cazzer said:

dr_gn said:

cazzer said:

stuff

stuff

stuff

waffle

I started my machine shop apprenticeship in 1976, and as far as I know it was one of the last few years they did them. Not long after it was all YOPs and stuff like that.

Even our local college, where I did my first years training, has turned its huge machine shop into a huge computer room, with dozens of desks replacing the lathes, millers, shapers etc.

We still have the ability to make these things, but the number of places able to do so has drastically reduced. Also, from what I've seen, the problem in the future will be finding workers (at least British workers) with the right skills to operate this type of machinery.

I bought my lathe from a guy who had just taken the last lathes out of the last local technical college (and this is in an area renowned for heavy industry and engineering). Most local school lathes have more or less all gone now too.

A good point, but these days so little is needed to be done by craftsmen or artisans like the guys in the brown dustcoats and flatcaps in the pictures. The vast majority of it is CNC now(although that in itself requires a special skill set). Of the component parts and manufacturing processes needed for a slow speed diesel, the only one which is basically as it was then is the foundrywork; coming up with a reliable pattern/mould shape and pouring the metal hasn't changed much at all. The only other time they break out the old guys with experience is when the shipyard mateys have cocked it up and bent/broken something, and hand fitting onsite is quicker than removing it and shipping back to the factory.

At least up to a couple of years ago, the vast majority of machines in the Machine Shop at Forgemasters were identical to the ones in the OP's photographs. I'd estimate that of the perhaps 20-odd machines there, only one or two of the large machines were true CNC. All the really massive lathes, VBM's etc, were fully manual. The cost of replacement with custom built CNC versions of this size would be astronomical. Since Forgemasters is one of the only works left in the UK capable of this kind of work, there won't be many operators left able to use this kind of equipment, and operators would need considerable experience of this kind of machine. You can't just leave a program to run on things of this size - they need highly skilled set-up (compensating for self weight of the components affecting accuracy), and constant monitoring and dimensional checking. One small error on a component of this size being final machined could be a total disaster.

A well trained CAM programmer could come up with a workable machining strategy for components of virtually any size when it's on a computer screen, but translating that to actually machining a truly huge item is a different kettle of ball games from, say, machining a car engine block.

[Shaolin]

This thread got me Googling for similar stuff and I found this:

http://www.icme.org.uk/news.asp?ID=4

350 tonne casting made from a 600 tonne pour and machined to within +-0.1mm - "western world's largest steel castings". So we do have the capability in some places as people have said. I know it's not a machine but bloody big for one bit!

[cazzer]

Can I just add, at no point am I blaming the demise of British manufacturing at the doors of the engineers.