1954 Avro Shackleton Mr2
Discussion
Hi all,
Its that time again... WR963 will be running her engines up at Coventry Airport on Sat 28 Sept at 1.30pm. This will be the first engine run since the taxy attempt due to her having a brief rest indoors while the mainwheels were changed. She's now back in her usual spot keeping Nimrod XV232 company.
All are welcome, access is through the West Entrance, signposted as DC6 Diner. There is a small charge for entrance onto the aircraft and there may be limited spaces for visitors on board the Shackleton during the run.
Kind regards,
Rich
Its that time again... WR963 will be running her engines up at Coventry Airport on Sat 28 Sept at 1.30pm. This will be the first engine run since the taxy attempt due to her having a brief rest indoors while the mainwheels were changed. She's now back in her usual spot keeping Nimrod XV232 company.
All are welcome, access is through the West Entrance, signposted as DC6 Diner. There is a small charge for entrance onto the aircraft and there may be limited spaces for visitors on board the Shackleton during the run.
Kind regards,
Rich
richw_82 said:
Hi all,
Its that time again... WR963 will be running her engines up at Coventry Airport on Sat 28 Sept at 1.30pm. This will be the first engine run since the taxy attempt due to her having a brief rest indoors while the mainwheels were changed. She's now back in her usual spot keeping Nimrod XV232 company.
All are welcome, access is through the West Entrance, signposted as DC6 Diner. There is a small charge for entrance onto the aircraft and there may be limited spaces for visitors on board the Shackleton during the run.
Kind regards,
Rich
Hi Rich, Did the "Old Girl" manage to taxy under her own steam on Saturday 28th Sept?? Also, do you have a website and is there anyway the public can make donations to further increase the chances of her flying again.... something along the lines of the "Vulcan to the Skies" Its that time again... WR963 will be running her engines up at Coventry Airport on Sat 28 Sept at 1.30pm. This will be the first engine run since the taxy attempt due to her having a brief rest indoors while the mainwheels were changed. She's now back in her usual spot keeping Nimrod XV232 company.
All are welcome, access is through the West Entrance, signposted as DC6 Diner. There is a small charge for entrance onto the aircraft and there may be limited spaces for visitors on board the Shackleton during the run.
Kind regards,
Rich
Cheers mate,
Ron McC L627 YAY & BOF 246T
Hi Ron,
No, this one was just an engine ground run to get to the bottom of the issue which halted the last attempt at taxying. Following quite a bit of work on the priming system we got her running on two, then later on all four. We hope to try taxying again soon.
The website is down at the moment through circumstances beyond my control (changes within our Trust) but will be back up shortly - I'll get the links up as soon as I can.
For the moment, all updates are going on our Facebook page - http://www.facebook.com/avro.shackleton
Regards,
Rich
No, this one was just an engine ground run to get to the bottom of the issue which halted the last attempt at taxying. Following quite a bit of work on the priming system we got her running on two, then later on all four. We hope to try taxying again soon.
The website is down at the moment through circumstances beyond my control (changes within our Trust) but will be back up shortly - I'll get the links up as soon as I can.
For the moment, all updates are going on our Facebook page - http://www.facebook.com/avro.shackleton
Regards,
Rich
Hi all,
Due to personal circumstances I've not been to Coventry for a few weeks. However the guys have been cracking on, and also doing a few bits on Nimrod XV232 for good measure. Also there's the odd interesting photo turned up from the archives... this one in particular being a favourite.
Due to personal circumstances I've not been to Coventry for a few weeks. However the guys have been cracking on, and also doing a few bits on Nimrod XV232 for good measure. Also there's the odd interesting photo turned up from the archives... this one in particular being a favourite.
Any updates on how it's going Richard? Also, if you've got any details of further ground runs taking place, I'd be very interested - my father is a life long aviation fan and would love the chance to see her running up (and possibly even being on board when she did start, if that was possible...).
Hi,
There's no major work going on at the minute, we're into the period of the year where we get WR963 refuelled, cleaned up and any little niggles attended to. We all got quite peeved when we couldn't taxy due to a couple of items going unserviceable, so the intent is to get those sorted before we progress much further, as we do want to taxy her in the near future without misbehaving.
We've sent the VHF radios off for servicing as we had continual problems with those last year - quite often we could receive but not transmit. The aircraft's own systems (in particular where the intercom and radio link up) are also being checked to make sure the fault doesn't lie there.
We've also sent away some of the fuel priming pumps for rebuild, as they have an appetite for stripping the gearboxes, so we're replacing the 50 year old fibre gears with something a little more hard wearing.
There's a lot of admin work going on to try and find more funding, as we want to be able to restore and operate WR963 in the future without keeping going purely through public appeals. Its not easy to find willing donors/sponsors in the current economic state though - but some companies are happy to help by offering their services for free, and it all helps.
Though '963 is serviceable at the moment I don't think there'll be another ground run this year, as there are no night runs planned at Coventry this year; and with the bad weather fast approaching the covers will be on while the worst of it passes. The next runs will be after new year when we get ready for the season ahead. It should be a good one, as in March its 963's 60th birthday, and also we're told the situation regarding Airport access may improve from about April/May onwards which will encourage visitors again!
For anyone interested:
Getting on board during a run is never a problem, though we do ask a small contribution towards the fuel in return. There's no barriers either, around or inside, so you can get some good photo's/footage. Just keep an eye out for the dates - I'll post them here - then drop me an e-mail when you're coming over.
biggles2000_99 (at) yahoo.com
You can also keep an eye on us here:
http://www.facebook.com/avro.shackleton
Regards,
Rich
There's no major work going on at the minute, we're into the period of the year where we get WR963 refuelled, cleaned up and any little niggles attended to. We all got quite peeved when we couldn't taxy due to a couple of items going unserviceable, so the intent is to get those sorted before we progress much further, as we do want to taxy her in the near future without misbehaving.
We've sent the VHF radios off for servicing as we had continual problems with those last year - quite often we could receive but not transmit. The aircraft's own systems (in particular where the intercom and radio link up) are also being checked to make sure the fault doesn't lie there.
We've also sent away some of the fuel priming pumps for rebuild, as they have an appetite for stripping the gearboxes, so we're replacing the 50 year old fibre gears with something a little more hard wearing.
There's a lot of admin work going on to try and find more funding, as we want to be able to restore and operate WR963 in the future without keeping going purely through public appeals. Its not easy to find willing donors/sponsors in the current economic state though - but some companies are happy to help by offering their services for free, and it all helps.
Though '963 is serviceable at the moment I don't think there'll be another ground run this year, as there are no night runs planned at Coventry this year; and with the bad weather fast approaching the covers will be on while the worst of it passes. The next runs will be after new year when we get ready for the season ahead. It should be a good one, as in March its 963's 60th birthday, and also we're told the situation regarding Airport access may improve from about April/May onwards which will encourage visitors again!
For anyone interested:
Getting on board during a run is never a problem, though we do ask a small contribution towards the fuel in return. There's no barriers either, around or inside, so you can get some good photo's/footage. Just keep an eye out for the dates - I'll post them here - then drop me an e-mail when you're coming over.
biggles2000_99 (at) yahoo.com
You can also keep an eye on us here:
http://www.facebook.com/avro.shackleton
Regards,
Rich
richw_82 said:
WR963 this weekend, from the Birmingham Aviation Enthusiasts Group's website.
guru_1071 said:
its a great looking plane, always makes me think of a big fish, with its mouth and little ariel feelers........(sorry!)
Git, all I can see now is an entry for the Life has been draining lately... thread.richw_82 said:
We've also sent away some of the fuel priming pumps for rebuild, as they have an appetite for stripping the gearboxes, so we're replacing the 50 year old fibre gears with something a little more hard wearing.
How do you intend to certify the aircraft as fit for return to flight assuming you are keeping an accurate paper trail of work carried out since demob etc(as you mentioned earlier in the thread) surely you have to replace with standard spares with appropriate release paperwork??Everything we do is is logged in the F700, and any serviceability labels or paperwork that comes back with overhauled parts are held on file. WR963's paperwork record is complete right back to 1960, but that was lost while she was still in RAF service. We have a master list that logs component serial numbers and life remaining, and we're working through it albeit slowly. We're also getting closer to the stage where to get major airframe work done (main spar) we'll have to have support from a CAA A8-20 E4 approved company.
Anything we change - however minor - has to get written up and submitted as a modification, the same as the onboard pre-oiling system that was fitted a couple of years ago. All new parts are sourced from approved stockists, and any outside work is done by companies that hold the required CAA approvals. We're lucky in that we don't have to go to BAE for input in any of this as the Shackleton design is owned by us.
A lot of the parts we're fitting are ex-MOD new old stock, so often have all the records, but require checking due to age, and how long its been in the box. For example - we have a number of overhauled Griffon engines, and complete cylinder banks for these. They are supposed to be checked every six months... but for the last 20 years or so they have only been checked infrequently. We wouldn't just trust that a green label mean they are good to go!
Still a long way to go, but we'll get there eventually. There'll be a flying Shackleton in the UK again, I promise you.
Regards,
Rich
Anything we change - however minor - has to get written up and submitted as a modification, the same as the onboard pre-oiling system that was fitted a couple of years ago. All new parts are sourced from approved stockists, and any outside work is done by companies that hold the required CAA approvals. We're lucky in that we don't have to go to BAE for input in any of this as the Shackleton design is owned by us.
A lot of the parts we're fitting are ex-MOD new old stock, so often have all the records, but require checking due to age, and how long its been in the box. For example - we have a number of overhauled Griffon engines, and complete cylinder banks for these. They are supposed to be checked every six months... but for the last 20 years or so they have only been checked infrequently. We wouldn't just trust that a green label mean they are good to go!
Still a long way to go, but we'll get there eventually. There'll be a flying Shackleton in the UK again, I promise you.
Regards,
Rich
Hi all,
What with a new year upon us, I figure its long past update time. While we haven't been too busy on the aircraft herself over the past few months, various things are going on in the background that will have big effects over the next few years.
First up are the obvious problems we ran into during taxying. 2014 sees WR963 celebrate her 60th birthday, so we need little to no shenanigans from her.
The persistant issues with the fuel priming pump are becoming tedious; and while we can swap them out again and again it is becoming repetitive, and we're decimating the available stock. The priming pumps are comprised of three sections - pump, gearbox, and motor. The failure comes when the pump sits and moisture accumulates in it as its at the lowest point in the fuel system. The pump gets stiff, or seizes, then the fibre gears in the gearbox strip and the pump is then unserviceable. This usually blows the fuse, and is usually why we end up with no engines running (if the starboard pump fails), or just two on one side if we get No 3 and 4 started then the port pump fails...
While I'm led to believe it was a weak point, while the Shackleton was in service it wasn't as often as we get. The factors of regular usage and full fuel tanks helped a lot. With an aircraft that is stationary, and on half fuel load at best, there are a lot of places for moisture - be it condensation or rain - to get in. WL790 in the USA suffered similarly and her pumps were replaced with an item that was a little more hard wearing. Our plan is slightly different. Wired in with the power to the fuel priming pump, we now have a cut-off valve that isolates the fuel supply, only allowing fuel to flow when the priming pump is switched on. In the next few weeks, we'll have the pipes made up to put these into the system. We've also sent one pump away for use as a pattern to investigate having some new gears made that are slightly harder wearing than the original fibre items.
The communication problems turned out to be due to the fact all three V/UHF systems on WR963 had been altered or cannibalised at some point. The rear upper VHF antennae has been removed, as has much of the wiring including that to the set carried in the beam position. Some of it was used on DC-3 G-ANAF many years ago, some of it went to WL790. We're now at a point where the PTR 175 is working, the PTR 1751 is getting there, but there remains an intermittent problem somewhere where the intercom system links to the radio - it will be tracked down!
We've started working through the spares we hold, and rather than hang on to everything, we have been slowly dispersing some of the multiples of certain items out to other groups. Wheels, coolant tanks, a rear spinner and some glazing items have all gone - which has involved some heavy lifting as there was no room for forklift work! Thankfully, we had a plenty of team members on hand, and with a bit of ingenuity we were able to clear some room. We are discovering more useful parts as we go - including a number of hydraulic spares which WR963 really needs, though no doubt we'll find even more as we disperse some more items and clear out empty boxes.
Ahead of us we still have plenty to do - there's still the bomb doors to look at, as their stumpy length is starting to annoy us all. WR963's anti-glare panel and a couple of other areas are getting revised to make the RAF happy, and with three years passed since the repaint, a thorough wash and a few bits of ceconite taping are on the cards to keep The old Shackleton looking good. I was threatened with bodily harm by some members of the Shackleton Association who preferred her to carry the 'used' look, but you can only let things go so far! (that, and I'm pretty sure I can outrun most of the Shack Assn..)
The archive is still a mess following our move, but its slowly coming back into order, more so as we wade through trying to find out all WR963's records. Following the decision to try to return WR963 to flight, two things asked of us by the CAA were a complete audit of all lifed components on the aircraft, and an assessment covering pre and post spar boom replacement and how it would change things for WR963. This was difficult to accomplish as there were large gaps in our records, then we had a surprising breakthrough in the form of some legacy documentation from our friends at Gatwick Aviation Museum. One of WR963's old MOD Form 700, covering her life from her conversion to AEW2 to near the end, and, almost to top that, fatigue meter readings for the entire period.
The result is that for the first time, we can pin down accurately how many hours are left on the lower spar booms, and a proven fatigue index worked out from meter readings taken from a 20 year period. The FI is yet to be calculated, as we have to find the calculation for the upper spar booms - a calculation that was taken from that for the AWA 650 Argosy Series 101, due to the Argosy's wing starting life as the Avro Type 733 (If anyone has the Argosy FI calculations, I'd love to see them). When spar boom cracks were found as the hours mounted, a calculation was done to work out the safe life of the top booms - which was then supplied to the MOD (PE) Central Defects Authority to check against Shackletons. This is the missing piece of our puzzle...!
The new piece, happily, is that WR963 has 594 hours left on her lower spar booms...
For those that want to come and see WR963 and talk all things Shackleton, we next intend to carry out a run up on 25th January 2014, at 1300 hrs.
Happy New Year,
Rich W
SPT
What with a new year upon us, I figure its long past update time. While we haven't been too busy on the aircraft herself over the past few months, various things are going on in the background that will have big effects over the next few years.
First up are the obvious problems we ran into during taxying. 2014 sees WR963 celebrate her 60th birthday, so we need little to no shenanigans from her.
The persistant issues with the fuel priming pump are becoming tedious; and while we can swap them out again and again it is becoming repetitive, and we're decimating the available stock. The priming pumps are comprised of three sections - pump, gearbox, and motor. The failure comes when the pump sits and moisture accumulates in it as its at the lowest point in the fuel system. The pump gets stiff, or seizes, then the fibre gears in the gearbox strip and the pump is then unserviceable. This usually blows the fuse, and is usually why we end up with no engines running (if the starboard pump fails), or just two on one side if we get No 3 and 4 started then the port pump fails...
While I'm led to believe it was a weak point, while the Shackleton was in service it wasn't as often as we get. The factors of regular usage and full fuel tanks helped a lot. With an aircraft that is stationary, and on half fuel load at best, there are a lot of places for moisture - be it condensation or rain - to get in. WL790 in the USA suffered similarly and her pumps were replaced with an item that was a little more hard wearing. Our plan is slightly different. Wired in with the power to the fuel priming pump, we now have a cut-off valve that isolates the fuel supply, only allowing fuel to flow when the priming pump is switched on. In the next few weeks, we'll have the pipes made up to put these into the system. We've also sent one pump away for use as a pattern to investigate having some new gears made that are slightly harder wearing than the original fibre items.
The communication problems turned out to be due to the fact all three V/UHF systems on WR963 had been altered or cannibalised at some point. The rear upper VHF antennae has been removed, as has much of the wiring including that to the set carried in the beam position. Some of it was used on DC-3 G-ANAF many years ago, some of it went to WL790. We're now at a point where the PTR 175 is working, the PTR 1751 is getting there, but there remains an intermittent problem somewhere where the intercom system links to the radio - it will be tracked down!
We've started working through the spares we hold, and rather than hang on to everything, we have been slowly dispersing some of the multiples of certain items out to other groups. Wheels, coolant tanks, a rear spinner and some glazing items have all gone - which has involved some heavy lifting as there was no room for forklift work! Thankfully, we had a plenty of team members on hand, and with a bit of ingenuity we were able to clear some room. We are discovering more useful parts as we go - including a number of hydraulic spares which WR963 really needs, though no doubt we'll find even more as we disperse some more items and clear out empty boxes.
Ahead of us we still have plenty to do - there's still the bomb doors to look at, as their stumpy length is starting to annoy us all. WR963's anti-glare panel and a couple of other areas are getting revised to make the RAF happy, and with three years passed since the repaint, a thorough wash and a few bits of ceconite taping are on the cards to keep The old Shackleton looking good. I was threatened with bodily harm by some members of the Shackleton Association who preferred her to carry the 'used' look, but you can only let things go so far! (that, and I'm pretty sure I can outrun most of the Shack Assn..)
The archive is still a mess following our move, but its slowly coming back into order, more so as we wade through trying to find out all WR963's records. Following the decision to try to return WR963 to flight, two things asked of us by the CAA were a complete audit of all lifed components on the aircraft, and an assessment covering pre and post spar boom replacement and how it would change things for WR963. This was difficult to accomplish as there were large gaps in our records, then we had a surprising breakthrough in the form of some legacy documentation from our friends at Gatwick Aviation Museum. One of WR963's old MOD Form 700, covering her life from her conversion to AEW2 to near the end, and, almost to top that, fatigue meter readings for the entire period.
The result is that for the first time, we can pin down accurately how many hours are left on the lower spar booms, and a proven fatigue index worked out from meter readings taken from a 20 year period. The FI is yet to be calculated, as we have to find the calculation for the upper spar booms - a calculation that was taken from that for the AWA 650 Argosy Series 101, due to the Argosy's wing starting life as the Avro Type 733 (If anyone has the Argosy FI calculations, I'd love to see them). When spar boom cracks were found as the hours mounted, a calculation was done to work out the safe life of the top booms - which was then supplied to the MOD (PE) Central Defects Authority to check against Shackletons. This is the missing piece of our puzzle...!
The new piece, happily, is that WR963 has 594 hours left on her lower spar booms...
For those that want to come and see WR963 and talk all things Shackleton, we next intend to carry out a run up on 25th January 2014, at 1300 hrs.
Happy New Year,
Rich W
SPT
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff