1954 Avro Shackleton Mr2
Discussion
williamp said:
Am I reading your schedule correctly, this saturday 14th you are doing static engine runs? Happy coincidence if so as I was planning on taking my two boys there!
Unfortunately not, it is one of our official tour days though so the aircraft will be open for interior & exterior toursFor anyone that wants an excuse to come down to visit us, we're holding a Wings & wheels event on the 24th July
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Big news for our project
Number 8 Squadron (Royal Air Force) Reunite with The Avro Shackleton!
In the summer of 1991, the RAF said goodbye to a long-serving eye in the sky when the Avro Shackleton bowed out after 40 years of operational service – the last 19 years of which were with Number 8 Squadron at RAF Lossiemouth in Scotland. Replaced by the state-of-the-art Boeing E3-D “Sentry AEW MK1, Number 8 Squadron continues to serve our country to this day.
July 9th 2016 marks two special anniversaries which we are happy to announce!
25 years ago to the day, our Shackleton WR963 flew in to Coventry Airport for preservation, and in the same month, it has been 25 years of operational service for Number 8 Squadron’s Sentry AEW MK1 aircraft!
The Trust were delighted to hear from a representative from Number 8 Squadron recently, and even more excited when hearing that the current squadron wanted to establish a formal working relationship with us, as we are looking after one of their old airframes!
Number 8 Squadron themselves have a long history, first forming on 1st January 1915 as part of the Royal Flying Corps as a Fighter Squadron. Over the years, the Squadron have operated many aircraft types ranging from the Royal Aircraft Factory B.E.2c, through De Havilland Mosquitos, Hawker Hunters, and of course the Avro Shackleton.
Despite operating a high tech aircraft in the current RAF, Number 8 Squadron have always acknowledged their long history, to the point of having an Number 8 Squadron Hawker Hunter as their current Squadron “gate guard” outside their HQ at RAF Waddington.
Our own Shackleton served with the Squadron right up to the end in 1991, and we do our part to keep its history alive too.
Our partnership with Number 8 Squadron means a lot to us, and the Squadron will be coming over to Coventry on July 9th to help take part in our special 25th anniversary celebrations, although sadly we can’t fit a Sentry AEW MK1 into Coventry Airport.... Members of the squadron will see for themselves their old aircraft, and we cannot wait to show them around! Despite being some 60+ years old, I’m sure our volunteers will delight in highlighting that the Shackleton could still perform the AEW task today if things got serious
The Squadron are also offering to help us with providing manpower if possible during any intensive engineering times such as our anticipated NDT strip down checks this coming winter. Of course this will be subject to operational circumstances, but any assistance from their crew will be most welcome indeed at any time!
There is much more besides the above to formalise, but we really do look forward to establishing a great formal partnership between our two organisations!
Looking in to the future, and our own return-to-flight status, it goes without saying that 8 Sqn’s base is definitely on our own bucket list, which I’m sure will be a much anticipated event when that happens!
Bringing an element of Number 8 Squadron’s history alive is a unique and exciting prospect, and one that we, the Shackleton Preservation Trust will endeavour to accomplish with great pride!
Website Logo by Pete Buckingham, on Flickr
WR963 Waddington 1991b by Pete Buckingham, on Flickr
JR7b by Photo courtesy of John Robinson, on Flickr
JR4b by Photo courtesy of John Robinson, on Flickr
8 Sqn 25 Years b by Pete Buckingham, on Flickr
Number 8 Squadron (Royal Air Force) Reunite with The Avro Shackleton!
In the summer of 1991, the RAF said goodbye to a long-serving eye in the sky when the Avro Shackleton bowed out after 40 years of operational service – the last 19 years of which were with Number 8 Squadron at RAF Lossiemouth in Scotland. Replaced by the state-of-the-art Boeing E3-D “Sentry AEW MK1, Number 8 Squadron continues to serve our country to this day.
July 9th 2016 marks two special anniversaries which we are happy to announce!
25 years ago to the day, our Shackleton WR963 flew in to Coventry Airport for preservation, and in the same month, it has been 25 years of operational service for Number 8 Squadron’s Sentry AEW MK1 aircraft!
The Trust were delighted to hear from a representative from Number 8 Squadron recently, and even more excited when hearing that the current squadron wanted to establish a formal working relationship with us, as we are looking after one of their old airframes!
Number 8 Squadron themselves have a long history, first forming on 1st January 1915 as part of the Royal Flying Corps as a Fighter Squadron. Over the years, the Squadron have operated many aircraft types ranging from the Royal Aircraft Factory B.E.2c, through De Havilland Mosquitos, Hawker Hunters, and of course the Avro Shackleton.
Despite operating a high tech aircraft in the current RAF, Number 8 Squadron have always acknowledged their long history, to the point of having an Number 8 Squadron Hawker Hunter as their current Squadron “gate guard” outside their HQ at RAF Waddington.
Our own Shackleton served with the Squadron right up to the end in 1991, and we do our part to keep its history alive too.
Our partnership with Number 8 Squadron means a lot to us, and the Squadron will be coming over to Coventry on July 9th to help take part in our special 25th anniversary celebrations, although sadly we can’t fit a Sentry AEW MK1 into Coventry Airport.... Members of the squadron will see for themselves their old aircraft, and we cannot wait to show them around! Despite being some 60+ years old, I’m sure our volunteers will delight in highlighting that the Shackleton could still perform the AEW task today if things got serious
The Squadron are also offering to help us with providing manpower if possible during any intensive engineering times such as our anticipated NDT strip down checks this coming winter. Of course this will be subject to operational circumstances, but any assistance from their crew will be most welcome indeed at any time!
There is much more besides the above to formalise, but we really do look forward to establishing a great formal partnership between our two organisations!
Looking in to the future, and our own return-to-flight status, it goes without saying that 8 Sqn’s base is definitely on our own bucket list, which I’m sure will be a much anticipated event when that happens!
Bringing an element of Number 8 Squadron’s history alive is a unique and exciting prospect, and one that we, the Shackleton Preservation Trust will endeavour to accomplish with great pride!
Website Logo by Pete Buckingham, on FlickrWR963 Waddington 1991b by Pete Buckingham, on FlickrJR7b by Photo courtesy of John Robinson, on FlickrJR4b by Photo courtesy of John Robinson, on Flickr8 Sqn 25 Years b by Pete Buckingham, on FlickrIf anyone's coming to Coventry motofest this weekend make sure you come say hi & take a tour of our nose section of VP293 'Zebedee'
https://www.facebook.com/coventrymotofest/photos/a...
https://www.facebook.com/coventrymotofest/photos/a...
zsdom said:
The majority of the Kickstarter donators have had their experience on board, I'm not sure if the P2 taxi has been redeemed yet
These (and future taxi event places) are available to buy from us, we're hoping for another run out in July for her 25th anniversary of arriving into Coventry.
Thank you as ever for the kind words, I cant recommend everyone to get themselves down to visit us at Coventry
Did the P2 taxi ever happen? Surprised we've not heard of it or seen photos anywhere. When is the next one, and what's the cost?These (and future taxi event places) are available to buy from us, we're hoping for another run out in July for her 25th anniversary of arriving into Coventry.
Thank you as ever for the kind words, I cant recommend everyone to get themselves down to visit us at Coventry
V8LM said:
Did the P2 taxi ever happen? Surprised we've not heard of it or seen photos anywhere. When is the next one, and what's the cost?
I'm pretty sure it happened at our VTTS day, but as I only properly joined the team in January I'm not 100% sure, I can ask!The next taxi runs are scheduled (subject to the usual caveats) 24th July for our Wings & Wheels event, prices for an on board taxi run are £240 and on board for a static engine run are £80
zsdom said:
V8LM said:
Did the P2 taxi ever happen? Surprised we've not heard of it or seen photos anywhere. When is the next one, and what's the cost?
I'm pretty sure it happened at our VTTS day, but as I only properly joined the team in January I'm not 100% sure, I can ask!The next taxi runs are scheduled (subject to the usual caveats) 24th July for our Wings & Wheels event, prices for an on board taxi run are £240 and on board for a static engine run are £80
Hi all.
Just a quick drop in by me to remind you all about the 9th July approaching, whch marks 25 years since WR963 touched down at Coventry and entered preservation. She's come a long way, and a short distance in that time. Usually you can find her providing shade for visitors and occasionally killing the grass in patches when the Griffons are run up just across from Hangar 7, Coventry.
Then occasionally she takes a stroll. Its only been once or twice a year so far, but the bar is being pushed. The 9th July will see another taxy run, and there'll be more this coming year once this event is past. The intent is to try an bring her serviceability up to be capable and reliable enough to taxy once a month, something the team is pushing hard to achieve. I got lucky last year - I was Engineer for the taxy run in the Vulcan day. ONce everything was behaving I took a chance and got these two shots from the window, but the memory will last forever. A couple of chaps on the recent taxy run in April got even better footage... a chance that others can take advantage of too incoming months!
One thing that struck me when I visited recently was that although I've removed myself from duties with SPT; I still want to see WR963 fly and I still believe it can happen. I want to see this taxy past, become a turn onto a runway and off into the blue yonder. Hear the Griffon growl and watch '963 become a distant speck in the distance.
SPT have got a hell of a long way, and managed to secure funding for the NDT work, then when everything seemed to be a done deal they then had a new problem in having to find the money to rent hangar space after our long time friends at Air Atlantique decided to start ceasing activities. So far without resorting to endless chain e-mails or campaigns, they've already got over half way. Please support the SPT, as visitors are still welcome as ever. Go and watch a ground run up, or visit. Book a taxy ride when the spaces become available. Or, if you have a spare minute online and fancy donating to help go here: http://www.avroshackleton.co.uk/fundraising.html
A Shackleton will fly again, and your help would make it happen that bit faster.
Regards,
Rich
Ps. Asked the question regarding the Kickstarter, apparently the P2(copilot) taxy was to be redeemed last time but no response was to be had from the details supplied. If its you, could you please get in touch!
Just a quick drop in by me to remind you all about the 9th July approaching, whch marks 25 years since WR963 touched down at Coventry and entered preservation. She's come a long way, and a short distance in that time. Usually you can find her providing shade for visitors and occasionally killing the grass in patches when the Griffons are run up just across from Hangar 7, Coventry.
Then occasionally she takes a stroll. Its only been once or twice a year so far, but the bar is being pushed. The 9th July will see another taxy run, and there'll be more this coming year once this event is past. The intent is to try an bring her serviceability up to be capable and reliable enough to taxy once a month, something the team is pushing hard to achieve. I got lucky last year - I was Engineer for the taxy run in the Vulcan day. ONce everything was behaving I took a chance and got these two shots from the window, but the memory will last forever. A couple of chaps on the recent taxy run in April got even better footage... a chance that others can take advantage of too incoming months!
One thing that struck me when I visited recently was that although I've removed myself from duties with SPT; I still want to see WR963 fly and I still believe it can happen. I want to see this taxy past, become a turn onto a runway and off into the blue yonder. Hear the Griffon growl and watch '963 become a distant speck in the distance.
SPT have got a hell of a long way, and managed to secure funding for the NDT work, then when everything seemed to be a done deal they then had a new problem in having to find the money to rent hangar space after our long time friends at Air Atlantique decided to start ceasing activities. So far without resorting to endless chain e-mails or campaigns, they've already got over half way. Please support the SPT, as visitors are still welcome as ever. Go and watch a ground run up, or visit. Book a taxy ride when the spaces become available. Or, if you have a spare minute online and fancy donating to help go here: http://www.avroshackleton.co.uk/fundraising.html
A Shackleton will fly again, and your help would make it happen that bit faster.
Regards,
Rich
Ps. Asked the question regarding the Kickstarter, apparently the P2(copilot) taxy was to be redeemed last time but no response was to be had from the details supplied. If its you, could you please get in touch!
Sad news on Facebook this morning 
FacebookPost said:
A statement from Dave Woods
Chairman of Trustees - Shackleton Preservation Trust (reg charity no 1020951)
Legal owner of Avro Shackleton WR963/G-SKTN
I first got involved with Shackleton WR963 in late 2008 just after ownership had been taken back by Mike Collet following the failed attempt by ASCET to return her to flight. The aircraft had three engines present at that time, and numerous systems damaged or non-functioning.
My first job was to remove the front spinner from the No3 engine which I managed without breaking anything, then shortly after as WR963 looked in a bit of a state the decision was taken to repaint her. The then Chairman (John Cubberley)knew well of my modeling skills and asked me to head up the painting team which I was happy to do, I just approached it like a big Airfix kit. The final painting was completed over the course of five days and has lasted well since.
Over time I established a good working relationship with the managemaent at Coventry and Mike Collet in partiicular as we are both northern boys . When the SPT Chair's health took a turn and he decided it was time for him to step down I was invited to join the board of Trustees and later to become Chairman, this job involved steering the activities of the Trust in maintaining and operating WR963 on behalf of Air Atlantique, and raising enough money for the project to be self sufficient.
Mike must have been impressed as in 2011 he asked me to take over the running of Air Atlantique's "Airbase", who would turn down that opportuity? Not me - so I said "Yes please!", and we did rather well at it. Then in 2012 it was decided that the whole of CAF would be moved to a new facility in Cornwall. Mike at that time realised that moving the Shackleton and Nimrod was really not an option, so on being called to the office one day he offered the Shackleton to me.
Had I declined WR963 would have gone up for auction, and YES this would have also included the scrap man. What would you do, buy the aircraft that by now you have worked on for a number of years, or say "No thank you," in the knowledge that she could be turned into scrap? It was bit of a no brainer for me really, so I bought it - out of my own pocket I might add.
Some of you may ask why I bought it myself and not on behalf of the Trust, that is simple, at that time the Trust did not want the liability that may have come with the purchase (indeed there were howls of horror from the other Trustees when I proposed handing it over to the Trust), as this may well have included insurances and parking fees which are substantial for an aircraft of the Shackletons size and the Trust just did not have the funds to cover this.
Things were working well as they were, so I saw no reason for things to change so WR963 continued to be maintained and operated by the SPT as Mike had set up and all were happy with that arrangement. A few months later when Nimrod XV232 failed to sell, the transport cost was found to be atronomically high, and the aircraft was deteriorating rapidly, Mike asked me as Chairman to take it under the wing of the Trust on the same arrangement as WR963 had enjoyed, in that the aircraft would still belong to Mike but we - the Trust - would maintain and operate it. This the Trustees were happy to do as it would give us a nice little collection in its own right when all the other aircraft had departed, we would still have Shackleton, Nimrod and Shackleton Mk1 nose all together.
Time passed and we had highs and lows, members of the crew came and went as they do, then came 2015 and the Vulcan To The Sky day. The week before this saw WR963 up on jacks to change the brakes on both wheels to allow us to taxy on the day, it was a damn near run thing but we did it in front of the biggest crowd seen at Coventry in many years. We followed this up in April 2016 with a taxy run with paying passengers onboard, the first time this has been done EVER!!
The Trust at that time was solvent with plenty of cash in the bank, what I didnt know was that things were about to change and I'm afraid to say not for the better. WR963 became unservicable and remains so to this day.
Where did it go wrong?
At the beginning of the year I asked the crew to hit all the usual sites with messages pushing the Hanger Fund and the names on the bomb bay doors, they didnt want to do it, why? They were worried that it may be seen that we were spamming people. Thinking I may be pushing too hard and with my wife's failing health taking more of my time, I decided, wrongly, to let them run things largely their way. Things fell away further and faster than anticipated.
A small group of the newer members for whatever reason felt that they needed to have private meetings to which the Chair and members they didn't favour were not invited. The whole thing degenerated into a Saturday morning "boys and their toy" club and not a group of like minded people with a common goal. Things I asked of them as Chairman of the Trustees of SPT in an attempt to try and halt the decline were ignored.
Little to nothing has been done with the Heritage Lottery Fund Application which would have given the trust £70,0000 development funding , the "Friends of WR963" has been run down and ignored with no updates and newsletters since the first one under the new Membership Secretary, so that is another source of funding gone.
The result? Since the middle of May we have had just £338 in donations.
There can be no doubt that the unservicability this year, little to no income from events (such as monthly public engine runs) combined with the huge expenditures has killed SPT. If we didnt have the Kickstarter funds the Trust would be out of funds completely now. The majority of the newer members treat this as if it is of no concern, the only idea that was brought up to raise funds is to scrap Nimrod XV232, I have to tell you that as long as I draw breath as Chairman I will not allow this.
To add to my stress level, this year new untrained members of crew have been put in positions on board the aircraft for private "test" runs when I wasn't on site. Not only is this poor behaviour from a safety point of view, it equates to some £3000 used in fuel this year alone for private - not public - "test" runs. Given I am the culpable person in that my name is on ALL the insurances, if there had been an incident and someone was injured or killed I would be facing criminal charges despite being 100 miles away at the time.
Speaking as the owner of the aircraft would you allow this to continue? I am no longer willing to let this happen so I have with the greatest reluctance removed ALL the insurances on the aircraft.
The SPT is now so divided that I doubt it can ever be brought back together. Weighing up all the above I feel I have had no choice but to call time on the work on WR963, and look to her preservation for future generations above all else.
As such I have to say that that brilliant dream of flight for the Shackleton is now gone.
Kind regards to all
Avro Shackleton WR963
Chairman of Trustees - Shackleton Preservation Trust (reg charity no 1020951)
Legal owner of Avro Shackleton WR963/G-SKTN
I first got involved with Shackleton WR963 in late 2008 just after ownership had been taken back by Mike Collet following the failed attempt by ASCET to return her to flight. The aircraft had three engines present at that time, and numerous systems damaged or non-functioning.
My first job was to remove the front spinner from the No3 engine which I managed without breaking anything, then shortly after as WR963 looked in a bit of a state the decision was taken to repaint her. The then Chairman (John Cubberley)knew well of my modeling skills and asked me to head up the painting team which I was happy to do, I just approached it like a big Airfix kit. The final painting was completed over the course of five days and has lasted well since.
Over time I established a good working relationship with the managemaent at Coventry and Mike Collet in partiicular as we are both northern boys . When the SPT Chair's health took a turn and he decided it was time for him to step down I was invited to join the board of Trustees and later to become Chairman, this job involved steering the activities of the Trust in maintaining and operating WR963 on behalf of Air Atlantique, and raising enough money for the project to be self sufficient.
Mike must have been impressed as in 2011 he asked me to take over the running of Air Atlantique's "Airbase", who would turn down that opportuity? Not me - so I said "Yes please!", and we did rather well at it. Then in 2012 it was decided that the whole of CAF would be moved to a new facility in Cornwall. Mike at that time realised that moving the Shackleton and Nimrod was really not an option, so on being called to the office one day he offered the Shackleton to me.
Had I declined WR963 would have gone up for auction, and YES this would have also included the scrap man. What would you do, buy the aircraft that by now you have worked on for a number of years, or say "No thank you," in the knowledge that she could be turned into scrap? It was bit of a no brainer for me really, so I bought it - out of my own pocket I might add.
Some of you may ask why I bought it myself and not on behalf of the Trust, that is simple, at that time the Trust did not want the liability that may have come with the purchase (indeed there were howls of horror from the other Trustees when I proposed handing it over to the Trust), as this may well have included insurances and parking fees which are substantial for an aircraft of the Shackletons size and the Trust just did not have the funds to cover this.
Things were working well as they were, so I saw no reason for things to change so WR963 continued to be maintained and operated by the SPT as Mike had set up and all were happy with that arrangement. A few months later when Nimrod XV232 failed to sell, the transport cost was found to be atronomically high, and the aircraft was deteriorating rapidly, Mike asked me as Chairman to take it under the wing of the Trust on the same arrangement as WR963 had enjoyed, in that the aircraft would still belong to Mike but we - the Trust - would maintain and operate it. This the Trustees were happy to do as it would give us a nice little collection in its own right when all the other aircraft had departed, we would still have Shackleton, Nimrod and Shackleton Mk1 nose all together.
Time passed and we had highs and lows, members of the crew came and went as they do, then came 2015 and the Vulcan To The Sky day. The week before this saw WR963 up on jacks to change the brakes on both wheels to allow us to taxy on the day, it was a damn near run thing but we did it in front of the biggest crowd seen at Coventry in many years. We followed this up in April 2016 with a taxy run with paying passengers onboard, the first time this has been done EVER!!
The Trust at that time was solvent with plenty of cash in the bank, what I didnt know was that things were about to change and I'm afraid to say not for the better. WR963 became unservicable and remains so to this day.
Where did it go wrong?
At the beginning of the year I asked the crew to hit all the usual sites with messages pushing the Hanger Fund and the names on the bomb bay doors, they didnt want to do it, why? They were worried that it may be seen that we were spamming people. Thinking I may be pushing too hard and with my wife's failing health taking more of my time, I decided, wrongly, to let them run things largely their way. Things fell away further and faster than anticipated.
A small group of the newer members for whatever reason felt that they needed to have private meetings to which the Chair and members they didn't favour were not invited. The whole thing degenerated into a Saturday morning "boys and their toy" club and not a group of like minded people with a common goal. Things I asked of them as Chairman of the Trustees of SPT in an attempt to try and halt the decline were ignored.
Little to nothing has been done with the Heritage Lottery Fund Application which would have given the trust £70,0000 development funding , the "Friends of WR963" has been run down and ignored with no updates and newsletters since the first one under the new Membership Secretary, so that is another source of funding gone.
The result? Since the middle of May we have had just £338 in donations.
There can be no doubt that the unservicability this year, little to no income from events (such as monthly public engine runs) combined with the huge expenditures has killed SPT. If we didnt have the Kickstarter funds the Trust would be out of funds completely now. The majority of the newer members treat this as if it is of no concern, the only idea that was brought up to raise funds is to scrap Nimrod XV232, I have to tell you that as long as I draw breath as Chairman I will not allow this.
To add to my stress level, this year new untrained members of crew have been put in positions on board the aircraft for private "test" runs when I wasn't on site. Not only is this poor behaviour from a safety point of view, it equates to some £3000 used in fuel this year alone for private - not public - "test" runs. Given I am the culpable person in that my name is on ALL the insurances, if there had been an incident and someone was injured or killed I would be facing criminal charges despite being 100 miles away at the time.
Speaking as the owner of the aircraft would you allow this to continue? I am no longer willing to let this happen so I have with the greatest reluctance removed ALL the insurances on the aircraft.
The SPT is now so divided that I doubt it can ever be brought back together. Weighing up all the above I feel I have had no choice but to call time on the work on WR963, and look to her preservation for future generations above all else.
As such I have to say that that brilliant dream of flight for the Shackleton is now gone.
Kind regards to all
Avro Shackleton WR963
Edited by PeetBee on Tuesday 30th August 12:18
I met Rich and Dave Woods quite a few times while researching a project at work, they were both great guys, incredibly helpful and lived and breathed Shackleton and would bend over backwards to help. For the project to come to this is quite shocking and very sad. I dearly hope Dave can find a way to proceed in the future. It's a beautiful old machine with loads of history. I sent them some cash in return for my little boys name to be painted inside the bomb bay doors, was really looking forward to taking him to Coventry when he's old enough so he could get up close to a "proper" aeroplane.
Edited by lufbramatt on Wednesday 31st August 10:08
Damn, that's really sad and disappointing to read.
If I was him I'd be tempted to sack off the (newer?) members that were causing the aggro; get the established and/or more committed mob together, and start again. I appreciate that's a lot easier to say than do.
Mind you, I can see why he might also just go "feck it"; especially if his wife is in poor health too.
If I was him I'd be tempted to sack off the (newer?) members that were causing the aggro; get the established and/or more committed mob together, and start again. I appreciate that's a lot easier to say than do.
Mind you, I can see why he might also just go "feck it"; especially if his wife is in poor health too.
Steve_W said:
Mind you, I can see why he might also just go "feck it"; especially if his wife is in poor health too.
The poor health thing isn't going to go away. But just going "Feck it" isn't in either of my parent's (or my) nature..Stopping all further work is the only sure way of stopping the rot within, and retaining enough funding to carry on. Some of the newer members are not happy at all that their toy has been taken away, and Dad is taking the reins again but thats for them to get over in their own way I suppose.
See what the next few weeks bring. Dad was in bits writing that; having to tell evryone it'll likely never fly again, but the level of support he's seen in the last 24 hrs has roused his spirit somewhat.
Regards,
Rich W
Hi Rich,
I didnt know your connection. The trust is nothing without the aircraft itself, so remove that from the trust and it will wind itself up. Might take a wee while, but not impossible. Shame, but your Dad can start again, start as a co limited by guarantee, go for charity status, (or maybe a CIO, another way to limit liability) and refocus. Easier said then done I know, but it is by no means the end (well, it is for those who messed you about, but it need'nt be the end for it, your family or the dream of getting it airbourne. I want to help, I really do
I didnt know your connection. The trust is nothing without the aircraft itself, so remove that from the trust and it will wind itself up. Might take a wee while, but not impossible. Shame, but your Dad can start again, start as a co limited by guarantee, go for charity status, (or maybe a CIO, another way to limit liability) and refocus. Easier said then done I know, but it is by no means the end (well, it is for those who messed you about, but it need'nt be the end for it, your family or the dream of getting it airbourne. I want to help, I really do
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