Mach Loop - Low Flying
Discussion
D4VE 3LL said:
coanda said:
Very nice images.....do you post on UKAR?
The low shutter speed herc in the first set of images is by far the best in my opinion.
I'm registered but it does seem to be a bit more base orientated. i'm more in it for the photography side of it than the serials etc. Might whack em up laterThe low shutter speed herc in the first set of images is by far the best in my opinion.
I guess you've heard of lowfly.net?
Yeah I know him - great work, just a d
head though. Yeah I know most of the guys on there. Was booted off lowfly with tons of other people - won't go into it for the benefit of others. on www.fox2.co.uk now (you have to type it in for some reason PH wont link) Great site.
head though. Yeah I know most of the guys on there. Was booted off lowfly with tons of other people - won't go into it for the benefit of others. on www.fox2.co.uk now (you have to type it in for some reason PH wont link) Great site.
fasterthanyou said:
I don't know alot about planes but your pictures have definitely sucked me. Whats the story with were they were taken? It is a training route or close to a base?
Its closest base is RAF Valley on Anglesey about 50miles away so traffic is mainly made up of Hawks. But recently the frontlines have come out to play like Tornados/Typhoons/ Harriers/Hercules. The whole of the UK is divided up into LFAs (Low Flying Areas) Wales being LFA7 and these valleys create a "loop" which is about 30miles roundtrip or 3mins in a jet. There just the valleys favoured by the aircrew and they're free to go where they want. It gets its name mach from the local town of Machynllyth, hence Mach Loop 
simples.Summertime said:
fasterthanyou said:
I don't know alot about planes but your pictures have definitely sucked me. Whats the story with were they were taken? It is a training route or close to a base?
Google mach loop simple as thatI will be there end of june for a weekend if you want to meet up dave ?
D4VE 3LL said:
fasterthanyou said:
I don't know alot about planes but your pictures have definitely sucked me. Whats the story with were they were taken? It is a training route or close to a base?
Its closest base is RAF Valley on Anglesey about 50miles away so traffic is mainly made up of Hawks. But recently the frontlines have come out to play like Tornados/Typhoons/ Harriers/Hercules. The whole of the UK is divided up into LFAs (Low Flying Areas) Wales being LFA7 and these valleys create a "loop" which is about 30miles roundtrip or 3mins in a jet. There just the valleys favoured by the aircrew and they're free to go where they want. It gets its name mach from the local town of Machynllyth, hence Mach Loop simples.D4VE 3LL said:
these valleys create a "loop" which is about 30miles round trip or 3mins in a jet.
Hardly.If you think about that statement, then the a/c would be doing 10 miles a minute, ie 600kts. Knocking on the door of dropping a 'boom' every time they turned! Given how 'sensitive' low flying is (and always has been) in the UK, the 'fallout' from that would be political suicide for the RAF.
Unless things have changed with the intro of the Typhoon, then the max anyone can fly at at low level is 450kts which gives a 'window' for timing changes when you are flying at 420kts - 420kts being 7 miles a minute, the speed FJs fly at at low level (because it's an easy number to work with). Indeed a Hawk would be hard pressed to even make 600kts at low level - most (clean wing) Hawks won't go past 580kts, with the weaponeer a/c being significantly slower.
There was a proviso within the Low Flying Handbook for the US F111s to be able to fly at 480kts, but only on IP to Target runs (because that was their ideal target run in speed). Whether this has been extended to the F15E Strike Eagles or the Typhoon, I don't know.
Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Sunday 18th April 21:12
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
D4VE 3LL said:
these valleys create a "loop" which is about 30miles round trip or 3mins in a jet.
Hardly.If you think about that statement, then the a/c would be doing 10 miles a minute, ie 600kts. Knocking on the door of dropping a 'boom' every time they turned! Given how 'sensitive' low flying is (and always has been) in the UK, the 'fallout' from that would be political suicide for the RAF.
Unless things have changed with the intro of the Typhoon, then the max anyone can fly at at low level is 450kts which gives a 'window' for timing changes when you are flying at 420kts - 420kts being 7 miles a minute, the speed FJs fly at at low level (because it's an easy number to work with). Indeed a Hawk would be hard pressed to even make 600kts at low level - most (clean wing) Hawks won't go past 580kts, with the weaponeer a/c being significantly slower.
There was a proviso within the Low Flying Handbook for the US F111s to be able to fly at 480kts, but only on IP to Target runs (because that was their ideal target run in speed). Whether this has been extended to the F15E Strike Eagles or the Typhoon, I don't know.
Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Sunday 18th April 21:12
D4VE 3LL said:
as they say, rules are there to be broken....
I'm sorry but that's just B/S. Obviously you do not understand just how LL authorisation works.
EVERY RAF pilot is aware of the Low Flying Regulations and the sensitivity of LL ops. Let alone the RAFP have things like SKYGUARDIAN to monitor LL flying - and woe betide a crew as is to be found in breach.
Why is it that you think crews either don't know the rules or fragrantly breach them?
Afterburners low level - not allowed
less than 250ft MSD - not allowed
more than 3 "loops" - not allowed
flying directly at photographers/groups of people - not allowed
The majority of people in the hobby have contacts who are pilots in the RAF who do this on a daily basis and I appreciate that your were in the RAF. just saying it how it is. no need to "Bullst" everything I say.
less than 250ft MSD - not allowed
more than 3 "loops" - not allowed
flying directly at photographers/groups of people - not allowed
The majority of people in the hobby have contacts who are pilots in the RAF who do this on a daily basis and I appreciate that your were in the RAF. just saying it how it is. no need to "Bulls
t" everything I say.D4VE 3LL said:
Afterburners low level - not allowed
less than 250ft MSD - not allowed
more than 3 "loops" - not allowed
flying directly at photographers/groups of people - not allowed
The majority of people in the hobby have contacts who are pilots in the RAF who do this on a daily basis and I appreciate that your were in the RAF. just saying it how it is. no need to "Bullst" everything I say.
I've been through mid Wales in the back of a Tonka with 90' indicated on the rad alt, we also buzzed the hippy tee pee colony at a very low level, buzzed my parents house and sat it on it's arse with the reheat on...... all this was back in 1990, so it's nothing new at all.less than 250ft MSD - not allowed
more than 3 "loops" - not allowed
flying directly at photographers/groups of people - not allowed
The majority of people in the hobby have contacts who are pilots in the RAF who do this on a daily basis and I appreciate that your were in the RAF. just saying it how it is. no need to "Bulls
t" everything I say.eccles said:
D4VE 3LL said:
Afterburners low level - not allowed
less than 250ft MSD - not allowed
more than 3 "loops" - not allowed
flying directly at photographers/groups of people - not allowed
The majority of people in the hobby have contacts who are pilots in the RAF who do this on a daily basis and I appreciate that your were in the RAF. just saying it how it is. no need to "Bullst" everything I say.
I've been through mid Wales in the back of a Tonka with 90' indicated on the rad alt, we also buzzed the hippy tee pee colony at a very low level, buzzed my parents house and sat it on it's arse with the reheat on...... all this was back in 1990, so it's nothing new at all.less than 250ft MSD - not allowed
more than 3 "loops" - not allowed
flying directly at photographers/groups of people - not allowed
The majority of people in the hobby have contacts who are pilots in the RAF who do this on a daily basis and I appreciate that your were in the RAF. just saying it how it is. no need to "Bulls
t" everything I say. Nothing new, I do envy you though! Tonka, Wales, Reheat.... :P
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