how much to wet lease an A380?

[topsparks]

TVR1 said:

Although, I feel I must call for YODA on this one......


ERIC MC where are you?......I need a bean too. Also, looking at alternative(London'ish)airports.

Would Farnborough take one? Obviously yes, Air show, 2400M etc....but a fully loaded one with maximum weight? Time of year, cold and damp-so maybe just right?

My other thought was RAF Northolt? Long'ish at 1700M....but assuming that an A380 wouldn't be using minimum braking distance of 1200M would Northolt offer a gentle stopping distance in 1700M? And,would Northolt actually accept a heavy civil aircraft?(as in non military rather than the private small jets that they accept now?)

ETA....I may very well be able to land and take off for the return leg OK. I have a friend who may be able to help at RAAF Edinburgh (length just under 3000M but quite warm and humid in December)

or am I just better off concentrating on a 747-800?

Edited by TVR1 on Monday 27th September 19:31

I recently arranged a flight into RAF Northolt and lunch in the officers mess for a 99th bithday treat for an RAF veteran,they wanted £235 for a R44 in landing fees!,which I managed to get waved.(Its on the Northolt web site)for larger aircraft the fees are quite shocking.

[Mojocvh]

shakotan said:

FourWheelDrift said:

A Russian selling a new Airbus A380?.....I must send him my bank details immediately. I see he works for a company that provides crews to ships. How on earth would he have got a brand new A380, unless one of the staff walked off the ship with the crate under his Ushanka.

No A380s have been sold into non-airline hands, yet.

Ok so the story is "bks" then, fair enough.

[TVR1]

So,

Thanks for all the replies chaps. In the cold light of day, it would seem that 747 would be the way to go. Landing fees at Northolt (only 'cos I live in Chiswick and I really couldn't be arsed with the Heathrow palava) seem to be around £8000.....And it seems that they will take a heavy civil aircraft...any number of far east airports will do the same, Australia is a bit more tricky as it seems that RAAF basis are a complete non starter...although there are a couple of regional airports that can handle a 747, not just the main, Sydney/Melbourne (read expensive)ones.

Anyways, chaps, I fired off a few emails to a couple of charter companies last night so we shall see....What do we think of my basic 'back of a fag packet scribbles so far?'

The basic idea as follows...

Low cost, one way only flight to Australia for exclusively Expat Australians returning and Uk citizens migrating/working holiday makers. (this gets around the issue of not having a return flight out of the country) The same back to UK.....Flights to run only 3 or 4 times a year to take into account seasonal demand using regional airports.

Aircraft to be fitted out for maximum economy seating with maybe a small number upstairs at a premium. 1st class to be converted to economy configuration.

Only complimentary light snacks served on board but with paid for premium meals available by advance booking. Limited in flight food can be purchased and will consist of 24hr ration packs (army type to cover all flight legs)

Duty free goods contracted out but with a fee for doing so.

Maximum 20kg total luggage (passengers should have already sent most of there stuff by ship anyway if migrating) Any additional weight can be pre-purchased at time of booking for a 'reasonable' fee. Any spare capacity used for cargo.

Ticketing to be contracted out to one of the major booking agents, Ticketmaster etc.

Charter company to arrange full ad-hoc lease or use spare established airline capacity....They will arrange all paperwork,ground fees, crews, replacement aircraft etc.

Seems like a fairly straightforward mathematical calculation. Divide costs by passengers and if it works out, it works out!

I shall keep you all updated!

Edited by TVR1 on Tuesday 28th September 11:38

[FourWheelDrift]

Wouldn't it be easier to buy and import a domesticated elephant?

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[Simpo Two]

FourWheelDrift said:

Wouldn't it be easier to buy and import a domesticated elephant?

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Yes, but now he can import it using his own 747 and save those awkward explanations at Departures.

[TVR1]

FourWheelDrift said:

Wouldn't it be easier to buy and import a domesticated elephant?

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Twas a very good thread!

Quick update of basic operating costs. Now I know that they are a bit out of date but they can't be too far off current rates. Also the A340-600 haspopped up as another contender!

http://www.icao.int/icao/en/ro/allpirg/allpirg4/wp...

http://www.what2fly.com/

Edited by TVR1 on Tuesday 28th September 12:04

[tonyvid]

TVR1 said:

You tease me, Yes?

Please tell me you are actually an exotic filly with a glint in your eye

[aeropilot]

TVR1 said:

Although, I feel I must call for YODA on this one......


ERIC MC where are you?......I need a bean too. Also, looking at alternative(London'ish)airports.

Would Farnborough take one? Obviously yes, Air show, 2400M etc....but a fully loaded one with maximum weight? Time of year, cold and damp-so maybe just right?

My other thought was RAF Northolt? Long'ish at 1700M....but assuming that an A380 wouldn't be using minimum braking distance of 1200M would Northolt offer a gentle stopping distance in 1700M? And,would Northolt actually accept a heavy civil aircraft?(as in non military rather than the private small jets that they accept now?)

ETA....I may very well be able to land and take off for the return leg OK. I have a friend who may be able to help at RAAF Edinburgh (length just under 3000M but quite warm and humid in December)

or am I just better off concentrating on a 747-800?

My advice would be to consider some serious medication.......

[john_p]

Northolt's runway is far too short to handle a 747 fully loaded.

[FourWheelDrift]

john_p said:

Northolt's runway is far too short to handle a 747 fully loaded.

Yep, it's only about half the distance needed at MTOW I believe. 1,600, the 747 needs 3,000m

[Nickyboy]

This is what you want

http://www.aviatorsale.com/Large_Transport_Jet/


How about a Hercules?

http://www.aviatorsale.com/aix5936/

Edited by Nickyboy on Tuesday 28th September 14:54

[Simpo Two]

Nickyboy said:

How about a Hercules?

Bit slow for the Australia run! But you could re-create enact the old Catalina mail route and take a week over it

[aeropilot]

john_p said:

Northolt's runway is far too short to handle a 747 fully loaded.

A Pan Am 707 landed there........ once..... by mistake, back in 1960. It stopped before the end of the runway....just..... no doubt helped by only having 40 odd PAX on board.

After defuelling to bare min for take-off and short hop to LHR, and stripping out as much stuff as poss, the Captian that landed it there, undertook a spirited take-off for the short hop to LHR, where upon after landing he was fired

Here it is climbing out of Northolt (the Police shut off the A40)

[TVR1]

john_p said:

Northolt's runway is far too short to handle a 747 fully loaded.

Quite. Schoolboy error from me, equating stopping distance with takeoff.It is getting the bugger up thats the issue of course,needing around 3000M so I guess that puts quite a few airfields out of the running.Northolt is bust! so next choice must be Castle Donnington! (to keep a PH theme) AKA East Midlands Airport of course, to be clear for those who have a sudden about lining up the apex in a 747 'heavy'-or our old favourite bus terminal Stansted.......I have heard that Ulyanovsk-Vostochny is pretty long too but getting the pax there could be, erm, a challenge.

[TVR1]

aeropilot said:

john_p said:

Northolt's runway is far too short to handle a 747 fully loaded.

A Pan Am 707 landed there........ once..... by mistake, back in 1960. It stopped before the end of the runway....just..... no doubt helped by only having 40 odd PAX on board.

After defuelling to bare min for take-off and short hop to LHR, and stripping out as much stuff as poss, the Captian that landed it there, undertook a spirited take-off for the short hop to LHR, where upon after landing he was fired

Here it is climbing out of Northolt (the Police shut off the A40)

I am, once again, deeply impressed.

[davidjpowell]

TVR1 said:

john_p said:

Northolt's runway is far too short to handle a 747 fully loaded.

Quite. Schoolboy error from me, equating stopping distance with takeoff.It is getting the bugger up thats the issue of course,needing around 3000M so I guess that puts quite a few airfields out of the running.Northolt is bust! so next choice must be Castle Donnington! (to keep a PH theme) AKA East Midlands Airport of course, to be clear for those who have a sudden about lining up the apex in a 747 'heavy'-or our old favourite bus terminal Stansted.......I have heard that Ulyanovsk-Vostochny is pretty long too but getting the pax there could be, erm, a challenge.

Bet you would get a discount at Doncaster Sheffield Robin Hood?

[Simpo Two]

Pretty poor show. Had they sacked me I'd have flown the bugger back to Northolt and left it there. Let management fly it out.

[TVR1]

Simpo Two said:

Pretty poor show. Had they sacked me I'd have flown the bugger back to Northolt and left it there. Let management fly it out.

Having read about it further...there does seem to have been a 'discussion' at Heathrow between Pan Am and the pilot along exactly those lines....Lufthansa nearly did the same but did a touch and go after realising the mistake.....

I have also been reading Boeings guide to starting an airline....seems pretty straightforward....

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/startup/informati...

[Simpo Two]

TVR1 said:

I have also been reading Boeings guide to starting an airline....seems pretty straightforward....

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/startup/informati...

Find and buy this guy's autobiography too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Rickenbacker

From street urchin to President of Eastern Airlines, via racing driver, fighter pilot and car maker. It's a little egotistial but a very inspirational book.

[Ginetta G15 Girl]

I remember one of my schoolteachers recounting the story - apparently he'd witnessed the event.

Apparently the a/c involved was inbound to Heathrow on a visual approach. The VRP for Heathrow at the time was the sky blue painted gasometer at Southall to the NE of the airport.

Unfortunately there was a similar gasometer at South Harrow to the NE of Northolt.

It seems the 707 Captain got his gasometers wrong!


For many years the South Harrow gasometer had the letters NO painted on it in large white letters.

I was never sure whether this was NO for 'NOrtholt' or NO for 'NO this isn't the right gasometer'!

Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Tuesday 28th September 23:51