Discussion
wormburner said:
Interesting stuff. When you split the brew and bottled some of it, did you have a fermenter the correct size for the remaining brew? Apart from a few 5l mineral water plastic bottles I don't, so would be worried about having too much air in there with the precious stuff.
Did you add sugar to the bottled beers?
Tupperware on standby for the stinking hops!
Didn't even consider it tbh. Around 10 litres went into a 23 (5 gallon) tub. I was worried about oxidisation after splashing it around a lot when moving from primary to secondary - but the beer was fine. I'm sure some of the stuff on homebrew forums is just nit-picking/perfectionism! (Similar to people on here refusing to buy second hand tyres etc).Did you add sugar to the bottled beers?
Tupperware on standby for the stinking hops!
We added sugar in batch for the first brew, 19 teaspoons I think. Around half a tea spoon per 500ml. Second half we added half a tea spoon to each bottle (slightly less for 330ml bottles) using a funnel. Batch was quicker and probably more even, but it means sterilising the secondary - not sure if it's worth the hassle!
Got any pics of your wine?
ETA: See here for secondary oxidisation: http://homebrew.stackexchange.com/questions/1427/s... . Seems it's alright as long as it's still producing some CO2!
ETA2: This was the thread where we decided to secondary to try and remove sediment: http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=... . Tbh, looking at both bottles they have around the sediment so not sure it's worth the hassle in the future!
Edited by bicycleshorts on Wednesday 6th June 15:44
I should have photographed the darling regiment when they were lined-up for inspection in the kitchen. They're now boxed-up in the garage I'm afraid.
I'm sure you're right about the nit-picking but I'm not sufficiently experienced yet to know which liberties I can take and which I can't.
Strangely, given in life I'm generally pretty messy, I've been utterly diligent in my approach to brewing. Cleaning things isn't something that comes at all naturally but I'm het-up at the idea of getting to the end of the process and being disappointed by something silly I could/should have prevented.
I'm sure you're right about the nit-picking but I'm not sufficiently experienced yet to know which liberties I can take and which I can't.
Strangely, given in life I'm generally pretty messy, I've been utterly diligent in my approach to brewing. Cleaning things isn't something that comes at all naturally but I'm het-up at the idea of getting to the end of the process and being disappointed by something silly I could/should have prevented.
wormburner said:
I'm sure you're right about the nit-picking but I'm not sufficiently experienced yet to know which liberties I can take and which I can't.
Strangely, given in life I'm generally pretty messy, I've been utterly diligent in my approach to brewing. Cleaning things isn't something that comes at all naturally but I'm het-up at the idea of getting to the end of the process and being disappointed by something silly I could/should have prevented.
Feel exactly the same! Would rather spend an extra 10 mins sterilising than waiting 2 months for it to be a poor brew. The secondary seems to increase the amount of work, as well as the risks.Strangely, given in life I'm generally pretty messy, I've been utterly diligent in my approach to brewing. Cleaning things isn't something that comes at all naturally but I'm het-up at the idea of getting to the end of the process and being disappointed by something silly I could/should have prevented.
Well, had a try of our dry-hopped wherry kit. Drinkable, but definitely needs longer to carbonate/get rid yeasty smells.
Moving our Coopers Lager into secondary this week, it's at 1.010 atm. Going to add honey to half the batch and dry hop the other half with Saaz. Did a bit of reading into honey, supposedly adding to boil you lose the flavours and adding to bottle is difficult to get enough in without exploding bottles. Following the advice from this bloke: http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f...
Moving our Coopers Lager into secondary this week, it's at 1.010 atm. Going to add honey to half the batch and dry hop the other half with Saaz. Did a bit of reading into honey, supposedly adding to boil you lose the flavours and adding to bottle is difficult to get enough in without exploding bottles. Following the advice from this bloke: http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f...
200bhp said:
Has anyone here experience of home brew cider?
Our recent visit to the West Country has seen our tastebuds reunited with the stuff and it'd be nice to have a go at brewing some at home.
I'm going to attempt some later today using this method: http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f... . Seems a cheap way of making some tasty booze... Looking forward to experimenting with different flavours!Our recent visit to the West Country has seen our tastebuds reunited with the stuff and it'd be nice to have a go at brewing some at home.
Also added honey to half our lager, and dry hopping the other half with Saaz hops. Both smell amazing at the minute. The reason it stopped fermenting at 1010 seems to have been because of non-fermentables in the brew enhancer kit (these give it the extra body/head retention).
Both brews smell awesome, can't wait to drink them!
never done it before, and really have developed the desire to.
Kits look a relatively easy and cheap way to try it out, but a) i've only ever heard that the result is OK at best and b) if I do want to do it 'properly' will i not have to buy all proper gear anyway?
What are your thoughts?
Kits look a relatively easy and cheap way to try it out, but a) i've only ever heard that the result is OK at best and b) if I do want to do it 'properly' will i not have to buy all proper gear anyway?
What are your thoughts?
I've been brewing at home for years. Mainly from kits but I'm starting to get into making stuff from scratch and have just made a Pear Cider batch. I am really surprised at how well this has turned out considering I put practically no effort into it and it only took a few weeks. If anyone fancies having a go, here's the basic recipe that I wrote out for a colleague when I made it - it's a bit wordy, but I wrote it for someone that hasn't done this at all before, so apologies if some of it sounds condescending or stoopid!
*Juice 25kg pears in a juicer (from wholesalers, this was £16) - this made 4 gallons,
*Top up the carboy (fermenting bin) to 5 gallons with shop bought Apple & Pear juice,
*Add 1KG sugar to 2 litres water and warm until sugar dissolves, add to mixture. You could add a few jars of honey instead, probably 4 jars would do.
*Put in yeast (Any yeast will work but different ones give different flavours - Ale/bread yeast will be violent and ferment quickly, wine yeast will be slow and give you a sharp flavour, champagne yeast is best for cider)
*I added a fermenting energiser which sped the fermentation up to about 4 days in total. without this, it would probably be fermenting for around 2 weeks (ish). A lot of people recommend using a hydrometer to tell when it has finished, but I prefer doing cider by taste and then stopping fermenting when I think it's ready - see further on for how to stop it!)
*Syphon/filter from your carboy into a second container. DO NOT MOVE THE CARBOY! Bring stuff to the carboy, not the other way round! This will disturb sediment and completely ruin the reason you are doing this stage! (At this stage, I only syphoned off 4 gallons so as to ensure I got nowhere near sucking up the sediment at the bottom. Do this and then top it up to 5 again with another gallon of shop bought apple & pear juice).
*add 1.5kg sugar in as little amount of warm water as is necessary to dissolve it and then stir it into the mixture.
*Let it settle for a day (I used finnings here, totally optional, but they make the drink clearer quicker)
*Bottle it without adding priming sugar and leave it somewhere relatively warm for 24 hours - this will start "secondary fermentation" where the yeast produces a bit of gas into the top of the sealed bottle, meaning it won't have oxygen in there to make the liquid go off or stagnant).
*Put it in the fridge for 2 weeks - this is to carbonate it (put bubbles in it). Good tip here is to try a bottle occasionally and see when it has reached something that is to your own taste)
*Take it out of the fridge and put all the bottles in your dishwasher. Let the dishwasher run on it's hottest setting for as long as possible (seriously!) - this stops the fermenting.
*Now you can just leave it anywhere you want until you want to drink it. The darker the place, the better, as direct sunlight will likely turn it into vinegar pretty quickly. I only did mine recently, but at a guess, I would say 6 months would be a limit to leave it.
On the dishwasher subject - this is a type of pastuerisation. Yeast has a few basic states - active/suspended/dead (don't know an official term for the third one!). When it's between roughly 14-30 degrees it is active so is eating sugar, creating alcohol and giving off carbon dioxide. Below this, it is suspended, so isn't doing much, but is still alive. When it is put above ~30 degrees for more than about 10 minutes, this kills it completely. You ideally want no live yeast in your finished brew otherwise you get off-tastes, so by running it through the dishwasher, you are taking it into the temperature zone that kills it for a sustained period of time.
This gave me 35 bottles (normal, shop bought ale bottles) of a really lovely pear cider. It looks like something Chernobyl spat out in the 80's, but it tastes amazing and is REALLY potent - I would give a estimated percentage of around 12%! Once you've dishwashed it, you can practically leave it anywhere, but I can't see mine lasting all that long to be honest!
ETA - In total, including the sterilisation powder and everything, I reckon this cost me £25.
*Juice 25kg pears in a juicer (from wholesalers, this was £16) - this made 4 gallons,
*Top up the carboy (fermenting bin) to 5 gallons with shop bought Apple & Pear juice,
*Add 1KG sugar to 2 litres water and warm until sugar dissolves, add to mixture. You could add a few jars of honey instead, probably 4 jars would do.
*Put in yeast (Any yeast will work but different ones give different flavours - Ale/bread yeast will be violent and ferment quickly, wine yeast will be slow and give you a sharp flavour, champagne yeast is best for cider)
*I added a fermenting energiser which sped the fermentation up to about 4 days in total. without this, it would probably be fermenting for around 2 weeks (ish). A lot of people recommend using a hydrometer to tell when it has finished, but I prefer doing cider by taste and then stopping fermenting when I think it's ready - see further on for how to stop it!)
*Syphon/filter from your carboy into a second container. DO NOT MOVE THE CARBOY! Bring stuff to the carboy, not the other way round! This will disturb sediment and completely ruin the reason you are doing this stage! (At this stage, I only syphoned off 4 gallons so as to ensure I got nowhere near sucking up the sediment at the bottom. Do this and then top it up to 5 again with another gallon of shop bought apple & pear juice).
*add 1.5kg sugar in as little amount of warm water as is necessary to dissolve it and then stir it into the mixture.
*Let it settle for a day (I used finnings here, totally optional, but they make the drink clearer quicker)
*Bottle it without adding priming sugar and leave it somewhere relatively warm for 24 hours - this will start "secondary fermentation" where the yeast produces a bit of gas into the top of the sealed bottle, meaning it won't have oxygen in there to make the liquid go off or stagnant).
*Put it in the fridge for 2 weeks - this is to carbonate it (put bubbles in it). Good tip here is to try a bottle occasionally and see when it has reached something that is to your own taste)
*Take it out of the fridge and put all the bottles in your dishwasher. Let the dishwasher run on it's hottest setting for as long as possible (seriously!) - this stops the fermenting.
*Now you can just leave it anywhere you want until you want to drink it. The darker the place, the better, as direct sunlight will likely turn it into vinegar pretty quickly. I only did mine recently, but at a guess, I would say 6 months would be a limit to leave it.
On the dishwasher subject - this is a type of pastuerisation. Yeast has a few basic states - active/suspended/dead (don't know an official term for the third one!). When it's between roughly 14-30 degrees it is active so is eating sugar, creating alcohol and giving off carbon dioxide. Below this, it is suspended, so isn't doing much, but is still alive. When it is put above ~30 degrees for more than about 10 minutes, this kills it completely. You ideally want no live yeast in your finished brew otherwise you get off-tastes, so by running it through the dishwasher, you are taking it into the temperature zone that kills it for a sustained period of time.
This gave me 35 bottles (normal, shop bought ale bottles) of a really lovely pear cider. It looks like something Chernobyl spat out in the 80's, but it tastes amazing and is REALLY potent - I would give a estimated percentage of around 12%! Once you've dishwashed it, you can practically leave it anywhere, but I can't see mine lasting all that long to be honest!
ETA - In total, including the sterilisation powder and everything, I reckon this cost me £25.
Edited by Jonboy_t on Wednesday 20th June 16:55
Blown2CV said:
never done it before, and really have developed the desire to.
Kits look a relatively easy and cheap way to try it out, but a) i've only ever heard that the result is OK at best and b) if I do want to do it 'properly' will i not have to buy all proper gear anyway?
What are your thoughts?
What are you looking to brew? Beer? Wine? Cider?Kits look a relatively easy and cheap way to try it out, but a) i've only ever heard that the result is OK at best and b) if I do want to do it 'properly' will i not have to buy all proper gear anyway?
What are your thoughts?
The end result of our Woodforde's Wherry kit was awesome, I would be happy if I paid £3 for it in a pub and the kit only cost £22 for 40 pints. Would recommend you find your local homebrew shop and speak to the guys there rather than ordering a starter kit off the internet. Some stuff which has helped me:
- Sanitise everything thoroughly, better to spend the time here than find out a month later your brew tastes weird.
- Try to get a fermenter with a tap, as well as a bottling stick, much easier and less messy than syphoning. Don't forget the priming sugar!
- You want to aerate (read as disturb) the mix as much as possible at the start, but as little as possible after. So put your tub somewhere you can bottle from (e.g. computer desk).
- Try to keep the temperature constant, most kits want 18-22*. A boiler cupboard may fluctuate too much.
Other kit you'll need: Hydrometer, thermometer, bottles, caps, capper, plastic paddle for stirring and sanitiser.
ETA: Should also say, you're unlikely to produce a lager similar to mass produced on tap without a lot of work. You should be able to do real ale, bitters and stouts easily though. Most "Lager kits" are just light pale ales.
Edited by bicycleshorts on Wednesday 20th June 17:01
Blown2CV said:
i am wanting to brew beer, anything except lager really. I can't imagine why anyone would want to homebrew lager!
Supposedly it's what the local homebrew shopkeeper hears quite a bit. "What kind of beer do you want to brew?" "Beer." 
In that case, I assume you're fairly versatile with ales etc. in which case you've got a great selection of types to choose from. There are some good reviews here for choosing your first kit: http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=...
There are usually about 5 steps on the instructions, it's that simple. Hardest thing is the waiting to drink it, you'll need to leave it in fermenter for 1-2 weeks, then in bottles for 2-4. While waiting for the bottles you can obviously start another brew though.
Blown2CV said:
rather than use sugar is it not a more authentic thing to use make my own malt? If you can buy the grist then do the boiling mixing thing then is that not pretty much how they make beer in breweries? Or is that factor taken out of the kits for a reason?!
You can use table sugar, brewing sugar, malt extract or brew enhanchers, see here: http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=...All grain (AG) brewing is from the raw ingredients, for this you don't need a kit. You're starting at the "add yeast to fermenter" stage in this diagram: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer#Brewing
Edited by bicycleshorts on Wednesday 20th June 17:26
Blown2CV said:
lovely! I have joined that forum now, thanks. So, basically I guess I am asking - is it a nightmare and do you need experience to go full-grain from ingredients, not using a kit as a beginner?
Yes and no! It is very long winded doing it from grain and the slightest mistake or omission can throw the whole batch out, but provided you have a recipe (or are experienced enough to estimate), you can't go far wrong!When I say long winded, a kit takes about 30 minutes to get going, from grain could be all day!
ok well that's the thing i'm trying to get to the bottom of - whether there are transferable skills between kit and full-grain. Say the latter is the same as the former with one extra step, and also you can use the same equipment as you bought with the kit, then great i'll start with a kit. If it is a largely different process involving different ingredients (or different formats of the same) using largely different items of equipment, I might chance my arm with the full grain route.
Blown2CV said:
ok well that's the thing i'm trying to get to the bottom of - whether there are transferable skills between kit and full-grain. Say the latter is the same as the former with one extra step, and also you can use the same equipment as you bought with the kit, then great i'll start with a kit. If it is a largely different process involving different ingredients (or different formats of the same) using largely different items of equipment, I might chance my arm with the full grain route.
The theory behind them is the same, as are the ingredients (hops, yeast, malt, barley), it's just that the 'donkey work' is done for you with the kits and you don't have to stand in front of the cooker with a thermometer for three hours! The kits are just big bean cans full of syrup that you pour into a pot, add boiling and cold water and wait, whereas a grain brew would mean sourcing and buying actual grain, mashing it, boiling it, steeping hops, straining, mixing, measuring, testing, throwing it out, repeating it and changing where you went wrong, waiting etc etc etc!!The best metaphor for it I've seen before is coffee. If you want something nice, cheap and that can't really go wrong with, get a jar of instant. If you've got the patience and don't mind a bit of farting around for a better end result - or risking losing it all if one stage goes wrong - get yourself some beans and start grinding.
As for equipment, it is really the same with perhaps a couple of additions. When grain brewing, you need a good stainless steel stove-top pot (sometimes referred to as 'Jam Pan'), about 5 gallons at least, preferably bigger to avoid splashing your brew everywhere when you stir it. You will need a reliable hydrometer, thermometer, accurate weighing equipment and more sterilising gear. The pot can be had for about £30 I think and the rest of it is probably under £20 a piece too.
I would say that a kit is the best start to be honest. You get most of the gear you would need if you want to move on to grain brewing, but you can decide if you enjoy doing it relatively inexpensively.
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