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aizvara

1,524 posts

37 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
FredericRobinson said:
I used to work for a company which put the coating onto breaded Quorn fillets. They were run once a week on a Friday afternoon because the Quorn completely knackered the frying oil which had to be dumped afterwards.
The production line and the oil had been coating chicken all week up to that point. Still, probably improved the flavour though.
And what happened when you raised the issue with management? Sounds like a bit of an irresponsible practice. I wonder if the heat of the oil would mean that those with an allergy to chicken would not suffer a reaction when eating Quorn.

otolith

19,738 posts

74 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
The Maasai bleed their cattle without killing them - suitable for ovo-lacto-haemo veggies?

aizvara

1,524 posts

37 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
otolith said:
The Maasai bleed their cattle without killing them - suitable for ovo-lacto-haemo veggies?
CDP said:
Some lizards regrow their tails when pulled off.

Would those be suitable for vegetarians?
Suitability would depend on the person and where they draw the line on harm to animals. Many vegetarians eat eggs and consume dairy products of all kinds, despite these likely containing traces of other animal matter, and often production involves harm to animals. Some self-described vegetarians are just trying to minimise their contribution to animal suffering (or some similar motivation), some are poorly educated about the issues, while others are more strict and informed.

FiF

18,597 posts

121 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
Let's no forget that a small % of consumers have violent allergic reaction to Quorn resulting in severe stomach cramps, vomiting, diarrhoea, breathing difficulties and in severe cases anaphylactic reactions and coughing up blood. Various studies suggest that the percentage of people affected can be up to 5-10% though other studies show significantly less than 1%. Nevertheless the fungus has been proved to be an allergen.

Personally the makers like to call Quorn a fungus, like a mushroom is a fungus. Technically it's a mould, and to my eyes a mould is designed to tell us when something isn't fit to eat. Not very scientific, I know, but that's my opinion for what it's worth. Equally, one is if happy with the fungus categorisation, some fungi are also dangerous to eat.


otolith

19,738 posts

74 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
FiF said:
Technically it's a mould, and to my eyes a mould is designed to tell us when something isn't fit to eat.
My grandmother used to love Danish Blue cheese, until I told her that the green bits aren't herbs.
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Colonial

9,876 posts

75 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
I actually don't mind Quorn every now and again.

But I'm still cooking kangaroo burgers tonight.

aizvara

1,524 posts

37 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
FiF said:
Let's no forget that a small % of consumers have violent allergic reaction to Quorn resulting in severe stomach cramps, vomiting, diarrhoea, breathing difficulties and in severe cases anaphylactic reactions and coughing up blood. Various studies suggest that the percentage of people affected can be up to 5-10% though other studies show significantly less than 1%. Nevertheless the fungus has been proved to be an allergen.

Personally the makers like to call Quorn a fungus, like a mushroom is a fungus. Technically it's a mould, and to my eyes a mould is designed to tell us when something isn't fit to eat. Not very scientific, I know, but that's my opinion for what it's worth. Equally, one is if happy with the fungus categorisation, some fungi are also dangerous to eat.
Let's not forget? Proved to be an allergen? Can you think of any food or drink which hasn't been shown to cause an allergic reaction in some people? I mentioned chicken allergy above, symptoms include asthma and the usual histamine response; should we not forget that too?

Moulds are types of fungus, unless you are talking about slime moulds, which you are not. Moulds can be harmful or not. Penicillin has probably saved a fair few lives.

Anyway, what does it matter that some fungi/moulds are dangerous? Or are you suggesting that we should avoid all fungi as some are dangerous? It is tantamount to saying that because some fish are toxic, humans shouldn't eat any fish.

Same goes for allergy; should we avoid all potentially allergenic foods because some suffer allergic responses to them?

FiF

18,597 posts

121 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
aizvara said:
FiF said:
Let's no forget that a small % of consumers have violent allergic reaction to Quorn resulting in severe stomach cramps, vomiting, diarrhoea, breathing difficulties and in severe cases anaphylactic reactions and coughing up blood. Various studies suggest that the percentage of people affected can be up to 5-10% though other studies show significantly less than 1%. Nevertheless the fungus has been proved to be an allergen.

Personally the makers like to call Quorn a fungus, like a mushroom is a fungus. Technically it's a mould, and to my eyes a mould is designed to tell us when something isn't fit to eat. Not very scientific, I know, but that's my opinion for what it's worth. Equally, one is if happy with the fungus categorisation, some fungi are also dangerous to eat.
Let's not forget? Proved to be an allergen? Can you think of any food or drink which hasn't been shown to cause an allergic reaction in some people? I mentioned chicken allergy above, symptoms include asthma and the usual histamine response; should we not forget that too?

Moulds are types of fungus, unless you are talking about slime moulds, which you are not. Moulds can be harmful or not. Penicillin has probably saved a fair few lives.

Anyway, what does it matter that some fungi/moulds are dangerous? Or are you suggesting that we should avoid all fungi as some are dangerous? It is tantamount to saying that because some fish are toxic, humans shouldn't eat any fish.

Same goes for allergy; should we avoid all potentially allergenic foods because some suffer allergic responses to them?

Don't be so bloody precious, I'm not suggesting that at all.

Just pointing out that a proportion of people will have bad reactions to the product. For example possibly a lower % of the population have an allergic reaction to peanuts, however we all see the warnings about products may contain nuts, and rightly so seeing that the reaction can be, but not always is, fatal.

Should there be a similar warning on Quorn products, I don't know but it is worthy of mention, is it not?

aizvara

1,524 posts

37 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
FiF said:
Don't be so bloody precious, I'm not suggesting that at all.

Just pointing out that a proportion of people will have bad reactions to the product. For example possibly a lower % of the population have an allergic reaction to peanuts, however we all see the warnings about products may contain nuts, and rightly so seeing that the reaction can be, but not always is, fatal.

Should there be a similar warning on Quorn products, I don't know but it is worthy of mention, is it not?
You are the one being precious: your alarmist over-stating of the risk of toxicity through the use of illogical comparisons.

If you aren't suggesting it, then why compare Quorn to toxic moulds/fungi? Why suggest that Quorn is somehow different from other foods in causing allergic reactions?

No there should not be a similar warning to nuts. I believe the packets already state that Quorn may cause intolerance in some. Many other foods cause a far greater incidence of allergic reaction, soya, milk, eggs, gluten, etc... Food allergies are really common. Peanut allergies are fairly common amongst those, and often far more serious than any reported reaction to Quorn, and sensitivity to even the smallest amount of peanut contamination can mean that labelling in that case is a life saver.

FiF

18,597 posts

121 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
aizvara said:
FiF said:
but it is worthy of mention, is it not?
I believe the packets already state that Quorn may cause intolerance in some.
So it obviously is worthy of mention then?



LordGrover

18,813 posts

82 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
Simpler to herd cats than argue with veggies. yes

aizvara

1,524 posts

37 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
FiF said:
So it obviously is worthy of mention then?
Not to the same degree as peanuts and nuts, to which you were comparing. And that it is mentioned on the packet presumably lays to rest your concerns over allergy?

To go back to your original points and my questions regarding them:

Do you think that all foods that may cause allergic reactions should be avoided (or in your subsequent back-pedalling; labelled as such)?

Do you think that any foods which are related to other dangerous plants/animals/substances should also be avoided/perhaps just considered in a negative light?



LordGrover said:
Simpler to herd cats than argue with veggies. yes
And it is probably pointless to even respond to you, given that you'll retract or edit your statement shortly afterwards.

LordGrover

18,813 posts

82 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
aizvara said:
LordGrover said:
Simpler to herd cats than argue with veggies. yes
And it is probably pointless to even respond to you, given that you'll retract or edit your statement shortly afterwards.
More to the point, I read a few of your posts and decided you're either a troll or someone who's so 'right on' and unwilling to listen, it just wasn't worth the bother.
My opinion hasn't changed.

FiF

18,597 posts

121 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
aizvara said:
FiF said:
So it obviously is worthy of mention then?
Not to the same degree as peanuts and nuts, to which you were comparing. And that it is mentioned on the packet presumably lays to rest your concerns over allergy?
Well a colleague and I both ate vegetarian pasta bake in the canteen. No mention of Quorn anywhere. She was violently ill, I was fine. Neither of us, nor the canteen staff knew anything about Quorn causing this reaction in some. No packet to read there. Maybe it was a failing of the canteen staff and their knowledge. I don't know.

The point is, which you seem to be studiously avoiding, is that this problem is not given much wider publicity, presumably because it would adversely affect the product commercialisation.

As for comparison to nuts, that was simply a comment relating to the % of population affected, and made quite clear in the post that, because the nut allergy can be fatal, it was quite correct to label, but posed the question was it necessary with Quorn. You seem to confirm it is necessary by virtue of your claim that the packaging does carry a warning.

To save messing about with your other argumentative little points too much I will insert a response in bold in the below quote.
aizvara said:
To go back to your original points and my questions regarding them:

Do you think that all foods that may cause allergic reactions should be avoided NO, never said that...
(or in your subsequent back-pedalling; no back pedalling, maintenance of position and line, just that you seem unable to understand the point being made...
/ labelled as such)? Possibly, which is why I asked the question.

Do you think that any foods which are related to other dangerous plants/animals/substances should also be avoidedNO...
/ perhaps just considered in a negative light? surely the consumer needs to know that there are such issues and can make an informed choice based on what they are looking at and where it is being supplied from; eg mushrooms/ toadstools. Surely it's best to know that there are some issues and not just to rely on somebody who has been down to the woods gathering, unless you know that they know exactly what they are doing?
aizvara said:
LordGrover said:
Simpler to herd cats than argue with veggies. yes
And it is probably pointless to even respond to you, given that you'll retract or edit your statement shortly afterwards.
Regardless of whether Lord G decides to respond to you or not, I certainly am ending it here, as you seem determined to find an argument somewhere. Put your handbag away and run along. /over and out

Edited by FiF on Thursday 23 August 14:10

Lost_BMW

10,839 posts

46 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
CDP said:
Some lizards regrow their tails when pulled off.

Would those be suitable for vegetarians?
otolith said:
The Maasai bleed their cattle without killing them - suitable for ovo-lacto-haemo veggies?
Lizard Tail Dip? vomit

aizvara

1,524 posts

37 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
LordGrover said:
More to the point, I read a few of your posts and decided you're either a troll or someone who's so 'right on' and unwilling to listen, it just wasn't worth the bother.
My opinion hasn't changed.
I tried to describe some potential health issues you asked for, and am willing to listen to what you have to say on that. It is you who seems to be unwilling in that respect.

I apologise if I seemed to be trolling or closed-minded. Reading my posts before your question again I'm not sure where you get that from. It genuinely concerns me if I am coming across like that. I simply tried to answer peoples' questions at face value, and correct anything that was in my opinion inaccurate.


FiF said:
Put your handbag away and run along. /over and out
Thanks for the condescension. Sorry if I caused you a nuisance; I thought we were having a discussion.

LordGrover

18,813 posts

82 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
FiF said:
Regardless of whether Lord G decides to respond to you or not, I certainly am ending it here, as you seem determined to find an argument somewhere. Put your handbag away and run along. /over and out

FiF

18,597 posts

121 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
aizvara said:
Sorry if I caused you a nuisance; I thought we were having a discussion.
Sorry, but how it came across was that you were intent on picking an argument over issues that weren't there, or had been misunderstood.
Guess it comes down to the old inability to read body language and tone over the internet.

Cheese Mechanic

1,483 posts

39 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
LordGrover said:
Simpler to herd cats than argue with veggies. yes
Tend to agree there, most veggies tend to be fine , but some seem to think that they should adopt an attitude of missionary zeal on the matter.

As for vegans, well, people to entirely avoid, unless you like the company of paranoid, self obsessed neurotics. In my experience, true weirdo's.

calibrax

3,026 posts

81 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
GentleFellow said:
-1.
+5 to cancel your -1 and then some. Loony.
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