Brew Dog

[SpeckledJim]

OllieC said:

Podie said:

truck71 said:

So, what is a craft beer exactly?

Generally regarded as one that produces a small volume of beer or are smaller scale.

I think BrewDog are pushing that definition now...

Anyone would think Brewdog don't like CAMRA or 'real ales' !

http://www.brewdog.com/blog-article/craft-beer-v-r...

half of their argument is beer should be cold (I disagree) and that 'craft' is a branding phenomenon...

I'm not convinced

There's so much nonsense (and a few plain lies) in that article it's hard to know where to start.

Brewdog said:

"Regardless of dispense style of production method, craft beer is beer brewed for taste."

Riiight. Brewing for taste seems like a revolutionary idea. Nobody's brewed beer and tried to make it taste nice before.

Brewdog said:

Real Ale no longer means anything. Craft Beer does.

Nope, real ale has a very tight definition. You even include it in your article. Craft beer means, apparently, beer brewed for taste. Riiiight again.

Brewdog said:

Cringe-worthy sexual references, out-dated clichés cringe, and grimace inducing design sadly dominate real ale branding.

Partly true, but glance along the bar in your local. Is it "dominated" by the above? No.

Brewdog said:

Contrast this to craft beer’s slick packaging which is both relevant and charismatic

And the next question is "Why is that important, unless slick branding is at the core of everything you do?"

Brewdog is nothing but slick branding, and is deeply cynical and self-conscious as a result. A 'proper' small brewery wouldn't be able to spot a brand in a smithy, and is all the better for it.

Just look at the Superdry iPlonkers who acclaim the Brewdog 'revolution' for details on what 'brewing for taste with relevant and charismatic packaging gets you.

[Blown2CV]

Podie said:

truck71 said:

So, what is a craft beer exactly?

Generally regarded as one that produces a small volume of beer or are smaller scale.

I think BrewDog are pushing that definition now...

I think it also implies brewing that employs the craft of brewing, rather than mass production. Another horrid word for something similar is Artisan. Basically it means people that give a st (about quality, results, ingredients, variety) rather than machines and businessmen that don't.

[SpeckledJim]

otolith said:

I like real ale. I like Brewdog. But it's a different product to what CAMRA was trying to promote. They aren't traditional English real ales with twigs and bits of badger in them. And nor are they the nasty stuff CAMRA was trying to break the dominance of. They are modern beers with character. They do make a fair point that a lot of traditional real ales are unremarkable.

I'm amused to hear that hipsters are drinking it - must be something about beards.

There's bugger-all difference. It's all in the sell.

[otolith]

SpeckledJim said:

otolith said:

I like real ale. I like Brewdog. But it's a different product to what CAMRA was trying to promote. They aren't traditional English real ales with twigs and bits of badger in them. And nor are they the nasty stuff CAMRA was trying to break the dominance of. They are modern beers with character. They do make a fair point that a lot of traditional real ales are unremarkable.

I'm amused to hear that hipsters are drinking it - must be something about beards.

There's bugger-all difference. It's all in the sell.

Bugger all difference from what?

[Blown2CV]

SpeckledJim said:

otolith said:

I like real ale. I like Brewdog. But it's a different product to what CAMRA was trying to promote. They aren't traditional English real ales with twigs and bits of badger in them. And nor are they the nasty stuff CAMRA was trying to break the dominance of. They are modern beers with character. They do make a fair point that a lot of traditional real ales are unremarkable.

I'm amused to hear that hipsters are drinking it - must be something about beards.

There's bugger-all difference. It's all in the sell.

I don't think they're the same at all. There can be mass produced, boring ales as much as there can be lagers. Not all ale, even real ale, is good. Equally there are Brewers that wouldn't call themselves 'craft' that definitely fall within that definition.

[otolith]

Blown2CV said:

There can be mass produced, boring ales as much as there can be lagers.

Especially in bottles. Speckled sodding Hen, for example.

[Blown2CV]

otolith said:

Blown2CV said:

There can be mass produced, boring ales as much as there can be lagers.

Especially in bottles. Speckled sodding Hen, for example.

Quite a lot of the section that it lives in, on supermarket shelves is st. I notice many supermarkets now separate the boring and interesting ales so it isn't imaginary.

[Driver101]

SpeckledJim, why such a dislike for Brewdog?

I read your comments about disliking them and you hadn't even tried any of their beers.

It's just a bottle of beer at the end of the day. You like it, you buy it. It's a few quid and not exactly going to break the bank.

You're entitled to your opinion, but many people enjoy the beer for their own reasons, even when many aren't the biggest fans of some of their marketing. They have changed their marketing a bit in recent months.

I still don't see much to get wound up about.

[BorkFactor]

otolith said:

Especially in bottles. Speckled sodding Hen, for example.

Strangely enough, Speckled Hen is perfectly decent on draught. Not great from a bottle though.

[SpeckledJim]

otolith said:

SpeckledJim said:

otolith said:

I like real ale. I like Brewdog. But it's a different product to what CAMRA was trying to promote. They aren't traditional English real ales with twigs and bits of badger in them. And nor are they the nasty stuff CAMRA was trying to break the dominance of. They are modern beers with character. They do make a fair point that a lot of traditional real ales are unremarkable.

I'm amused to hear that hipsters are drinking it - must be something about beards.

There's bugger-all difference. It's all in the sell.

Bugger all difference from what?

From other beers not presented as game-changers.

[SpeckledJim]

Blown2CV said:

SpeckledJim said:

otolith said:

I like real ale. I like Brewdog. But it's a different product to what CAMRA was trying to promote. They aren't traditional English real ales with twigs and bits of badger in them. And nor are they the nasty stuff CAMRA was trying to break the dominance of. They are modern beers with character. They do make a fair point that a lot of traditional real ales are unremarkable.

I'm amused to hear that hipsters are drinking it - must be something about beards.

There's bugger-all difference. It's all in the sell.

I don't think they're the same at all. There can be mass produced, boring ales as much as there can be lagers. Not all ale, even real ale, is good. Equally there are Brewers that wouldn't call themselves 'craft' that definitely fall within that definition.

No argument there. Plenty of real ale is crap. Plenty of 'craft beer' is crap.

I like beers of all types (even the crap stuff). The brewdog stuff is fine, for me, but what sticks in the craw is their insistence that they are doing something amazing. And especially that they don't owe anything to what came before.

It is all pre-filled with assumption there has been a significant and amazing invention somewhere, which they should be getting credit for. And anyone who can't appreciate this entirely vaporous 'revolution' is a crusty old giffer who should stick to his pint of chicken stock.

Nonsense. They have all the marketing probity of a shampoo manufacturer.

Edited by SpeckledJim on Tuesday 13th January 11:36

[otolith]

SpeckledJim said:

otolith said:

SpeckledJim said:

otolith said:

I like real ale. I like Brewdog. But it's a different product to what CAMRA was trying to promote. They aren't traditional English real ales with twigs and bits of badger in them. And nor are they the nasty stuff CAMRA was trying to break the dominance of. They are modern beers with character. They do make a fair point that a lot of traditional real ales are unremarkable.

I'm amused to hear that hipsters are drinking it - must be something about beards.

There's bugger-all difference. It's all in the sell.

Bugger all difference from what?

From other beers not presented as game-changers.

There are other modern beers with character - I don't see how that prevents Brewdog being amongst them. They make interesting beers which aren't in the traditional English style and aren't in the Carling/Fosters/etc camp.

[otolith]

SpeckledJim said:

Nonsense. They have all the marketing probity of a shampoo manufacturer.

Ah, you don't like their marketing.

I like their beer.

[Truckosaurus]

Even Brewdog themselves have admitted they over did things with their early marketing and deliberately picking fights with CAMRA and the Portman Group and have wound it back now.

But it did get them noticed at the start, for Good or ill.

[SpeckledJim]

otolith said:

SpeckledJim said:

Nonsense. They have all the marketing probity of a shampoo manufacturer.

Ah, you don't like their marketing.

I like their beer.

That's true. I like their beer.

I don't think an industry-leading plc should be attacking small breweries for popping a cheeky name for a small-run beer, when they call their beer 'punk' and decorate their bars with graffiti. Nor should they be attacking the most successful NPF grass-roots movement of recent times, without which their market may not exist.

They're so desperately cringingly relaxed and alternative 'yeah man', yet actually so brutally cynical and commercial (as a plc should be).

So that's why I don't like their marketing, and don't think they're 'a good thing'. Despite liking their beer.

[truck71]

SpeckledJim said:

OllieC said:

Podie said:

truck71 said:

So, what is a craft beer exactly?

Generally regarded as one that produces a small volume of beer or are smaller scale.

I think BrewDog are pushing that definition now...

Anyone would think Brewdog don't like CAMRA or 'real ales' !

http://www.brewdog.com/blog-article/craft-beer-v-r...

half of their argument is beer should be cold (I disagree) and that 'craft' is a branding phenomenon...

I'm not convinced

There's so much nonsense (and a few plain lies) in that article it's hard to know where to start.

Brewdog said:

"Regardless of dispense style of production method, craft beer is beer brewed for taste."

Riiight. Brewing for taste seems like a revolutionary idea. Nobody's brewed beer and tried to make it taste nice before.

Brewdog said:

Real Ale no longer means anything. Craft Beer does.

Nope, real ale has a very tight definition. You even include it in your article. Craft beer means, apparently, beer brewed for taste. Riiiight again.

Brewdog said:

Cringe-worthy sexual references, out-dated clichés cringe, and grimace inducing design sadly dominate real ale branding.

Partly true, but glance along the bar in your local. Is it "dominated" by the above? No.

Brewdog said:

Contrast this to craft beer’s slick packaging which is both relevant and charismatic

And the next question is "Why is that important, unless slick branding is at the core of everything you do?"

Brewdog is nothing but slick branding, and is deeply cynical and self-conscious as a result. A 'proper' small brewery wouldn't be able to spot a brand in a smithy, and is all the better for it.

Just look at the Superdry iPlonkers who acclaim the Brewdog 'revolution' for details on what 'brewing for taste with relevant and charismatic packaging gets you.

Well, that just about sums up my thoughts Speckled Jim. Craft Beer is simply a marketing term and needs to be seen as such. No problem in that, if it helps sell your product and "differentiate" it then that's fine. However lets not pretend there is anything new going on here. Historically beer used to be brewed and consumed locally hence there used to be thousands of breweries. As such there were lots of different flavours/ beer types etc and some were more successful than others. As the industry rationalised with economies of scale, production methods more conducive to product longevity/ travelability (not a word I know) and improved distribution infrastructure so the industry changed and smaller breweries died out. Add to that the introduction of mass produced lager and the nations demand changed, moving away from real ales as we know them to more generic products. The current resurgence of micro breweries and "craft beer producers" is simply a reverse of this trend, we're going full circle- quell surprise! As for Brewdog- in my opinion it's posh lager and no bad thing at that- anything is better than the rubbish that's been peddled to UK punters over the last 40 odd years. It has a place, many people like it and deserves to be successful and I hope there are many others like them. I prefer traditionally brewed ales and they're offshoots but its a preference and nothing more.

Edited by truck71 on Tuesday 13th January 12:21

Edited by truck71 on Tuesday 13th January 12:22

[Gaspode]

truck71 said:

Well, that just about sums up my thoughts Speckled Jim.

Seems about right to me too - especially this "Beer should be drunk cold" bks. If they are supposed to be interested in taste, why are they promoting it to be served in the single biggest way that destroys our ability to enjoy the flavour?

I bet they put ice in their Scotch, too.

[Baryonyx]

OllieC said:

Anyone would think Brewdog don't like CAMRA or 'real ales' !

http://www.brewdog.com/blog-article/craft-beer-v-r...

half of their argument is beer should be cold (I disagree) and that 'craft' is a branding phenomenon...

I'm not convinced

The problem with Brew Dog is that they have been steadily trying to indoctrinate 'n00bs' with their range of bland beers. They like to state their position as being a game changer but the only game changing play they've made is emptying the wallets of the less discerning customer through marketing and branding. Their branding is rather cringeworthy though, as they try to make themselves look like some anti-establishment revolutionaries when really, they just want to become the establishment and take all your money. Their beers are unremarkable and their assertion that they are pioneering is largely incorrect.

Walk into any decent pub or bar now and you'll be faced with a good selection of beers, not just mild, bitter or blonde (nothing wrong with any of those, either). More to the point, in any decent beer bar you'll get a huge selection of great beers on tap and by bottle, and not have Brewdog's inspid product front and centre.


Also, their assertion that British real ale marketing is all sexist or naff is just not true. Companies like Sonnet 43, Salopian Brewery and the Allendale Brewery have been using catchy, well thought out branding for ages now, without having to resort to the cringeworthy faux-punk style of Brew Dog. The 'joke' pump cards are usually the oldest ones on display in any pub now and the age of 'Sheepshagger' and the like is getting on for 20 years old now. They were commonplace in the 90's but are by far the minority now. I'm also surprised to see Wylam on that list with a dreadful pump card for the Camra 40th beer - they've recently changed all of their designs to much more artistic, modern images and finally have the branding to match their beer.

[R11ysf]

I really don't understand the hate here. Is this "beer snobbery" in full flow? Whether you like it or not (and FYI I do happen to like Punk IPA) this is a small company who've created a product that people want. You can put that down to marketing or whatever, but essentially people are buying it because they like to drink it. This is a success story of a small company that's expanded and done very well, they are expanding the number of beers on offer on the market and if you don't like it then don't buy it!!

[OllieC]

R11ysf said:

I really don't understand the hate here. Is this "beer snobbery" in full flow? Whether you like it or not (and FYI I do happen to like Punk IPA) this is a small company who've created a product that people want. You can put that down to marketing or whatever, but essentially people are buying it because they like to drink it. This is a success story of a small company that's expanded and done very well, they are expanding the number of beers on offer on the market and if you don't like it then don't buy it!!

I cant speak for anyone else, but my own feeling is that Brew Dog make decent beer, but also they talk a LOT of ste, and should expect some flak as a result.