Brew Dog

[InductionRoar]

Baryonyx said:

Walk into any decent pub or bar now and you'll be faced with a good selection of beers, not just mild, bitter or blonde (nothing wrong with any of those, either). More to the point, in any decent beer bar you'll get a huge selection of great beers on tap and by bottle, and not have Brewdog's inspid product front and centre.

In the cities maybe more so but smaller towns not so much. Outside of the city centres I have never seen imperial stouts, saisons, tripels, barley wines etc just different brands of lager, IPA and pilsner.

I am not a fan of Brewdog beer however, their guest ales (Mikkeller, North Coast, Clown Shoes etc) are excellent and I seek them out whenever in a town with a Brewdog bar.

[andy ted]

Baryonyx said:

Salopian Brewery

Edited - sorry my post went awry for some reason! Will blame the iPhone

a bit OT but just wanted to say that I am not a massive ale drinker but had a couple of pints while on a bike trip going up to North Wales from Salopian and it was amazing!

Edited by andy ted on Tuesday 13th January 20:38

[Baryonyx]

OllieC said:

I cant speak for anyone else, but my own feeling is that Brew Dog make decent beer, but also they talk a LOT of ste, and should expect some flak as a result.

They are always talking ste though, and that's one of the problems. Their beer isn't good enough for them to simply go around insulting whoever they please. They also misrepresent CAMRA in their articles against them, continually referring to stuffy, miserable pubs full of old farts who like Morris dancing as the epitome of what CAMRA are about.

[OllieC]

no such thing as bad publicity perhaps

[SpeckledJim]

R11ysf said:

I really don't understand the hate here. Is this "beer snobbery" in full flow? Whether you like it or not (and FYI I do happen to like Punk IPA) this is a small company who've created a brand product that people want. You can put that down to marketing or whatever, but essentially people are buying it because they like to be seen to drink it. This is a success story of a small company that's expanded and done very well, they are expanding the number of beers on offer on the market and if you don't like it then don't buy it!!

Anyone who discovered IPA thanks to Brewdog would enjoy just about every IPA available. Which is hundreds. They've always ignored those hundreds of beers because they weren't targeted towards Superdry iPlonkers.

[otolith]

Maybe. I had a very disappointingly bland IPA recently, can't remember what it was, but it may as well have been bitter.

[Blown2CV]

otolith said:

Maybe. I had a very disappointingly bland IPA recently, can't remember what it was, but it may as well have been bitter.

there are definitely some very st IPAs around, although usually in the traditional camp, in my experience.

[Driver101]

SpeckledJim said:

R11ysf said:

I really don't understand the hate here. Is this "beer snobbery" in full flow? Whether you like it or not (and FYI I do happen to like Punk IPA) this is a small company who've created a brand product that people want. You can put that down to marketing or whatever, but essentially people are buying it because they like to be seen to drink it. This is a success story of a small company that's expanded and done very well, they are expanding the number of beers on offer on the market and if you don't like it then don't buy it!!

Anyone who discovered IPA thanks to Brewdog would enjoy just about every IPA available. Which is hundreds. They've always ignored those hundreds of beers because they weren't targeted towards Superdry iPlonkers.

What makes you think people who buy Brewdog beers don't try anything else?

I can honestly say that is far from my opinion. The people who are happy to try beers other than a pint of whatever the local has cheapest, they tend to try various other brands too.

What's the association with Superdry and iPlonkers?

Again that isn't really what I see when I'm at their pubs. It's also not the people I see buying their beers in Tesco.

Would you not like to add typical Audi/BMW driver's beer on to the stereotype too?

It's very simple as far as I'm concerned. I drink their beers as I enjoy their beers.

I go to their pubs as I enjoy their pubs. Quite often there is a decent atmosphere, I've never seen a trouble and you don't see the usual groups out to get absolutely legless.

I'm not really interested in their marketing. It doesn't bother me and I've got better things to worry about than allow it to wind me up.

It's only beer.

Edited by Driver101 on Tuesday 13th January 20:36

[jogon]

They are tapping in to the new more disconcerted younger beer drinker bored of the usual Fosters, Stellar, Peroni and Heineken usual selection on offer in 90% of bars.

Give me 1/3pt of 10% Belgian style blonde beer crafted in small batches over in San Diego over a pint of mass produced garbage any day of the week.

CAMRA is for your more mature drinker.

[truck71]

jogon said:

They are tapping in to the new more disconcerted younger beer drinker bored of the usual Fosters, Stellar, Peroni and Heineken usual selection on offer in 90% of bars.

Give me 1/3pt of 10% Belgian style blonde beer crafted in small batches over in San Diego over a pint of mass produced garbage any day of the week.

CAMRA is for your more mature drinker.

So, what's the difference between crafting a beer and brewing it?

[illmonkey]

truck71 said:

jogon said:

They are tapping in to the new more disconcerted younger beer drinker bored of the usual Fosters, Stellar, Peroni and Heineken usual selection on offer in 90% of bars.

Give me 1/3pt of 10% Belgian style blonde beer crafted in small batches over in San Diego over a pint of mass produced garbage any day of the week.

CAMRA is for your more mature drinker.

So, what's the difference between crafting a beer and brewing it?

Hipsters.

[Smiler.]

otolith said:

I like real ale. I like Brewdog. But it's a different product to what CAMRA was trying to promote. They aren't traditional English real ales with twigs and bits of badger in them. And nor are they the nasty stuff CAMRA was trying to break the dominance of. They are modern beers with character. They do make a fair point that a lot of traditional real ales are unremarkable.

I'm amused to hear that hipsters are drinking it - must be something about beards.

Good post.

[SpeckledJim]

Driver101 said:

SpeckledJim said:

R11ysf said:

I really don't understand the hate here. Is this "beer snobbery" in full flow? Whether you like it or not (and FYI I do happen to like Punk IPA) this is a small company who've created a brand product that people want. You can put that down to marketing or whatever, but essentially people are buying it because they like to be seen to drink it. This is a success story of a small company that's expanded and done very well, they are expanding the number of beers on offer on the market and if you don't like it then don't buy it!!

Anyone who discovered IPA thanks to Brewdog would enjoy just about every IPA available. Which is hundreds. They've always ignored those hundreds of beers because they weren't targeted towards Superdry iPlonkers.

What makes you think people who buy Brewdog beers don't try anything else?

I can honestly say that is far from my opinion. The people who are happy to try beers other than a pint of whatever the local has cheapest, they tend to try various other brands too.

What's the association with Superdry and iPlonkers?

Again that isn't really what I see when I'm at their pubs. It's also not the people I see buying their beers in Tesco.

Would you not like to add typical Audi/BMW driver's beer on to the stereotype too?

It's very simple as far as I'm concerned. I drink their beers as I enjoy their beers.

I go to their pubs as I enjoy their pubs. Quite often there is a decent atmosphere, I've never seen a trouble and you don't see the usual groups out to get absolutely legless.

I'm not really interested in their marketing. It doesn't bother me and I've got better things to worry about than allow it to wind me up.

It's only beer.

Edited by Driver101 on Tuesday 13th January 20:36

That's not at all what I've said.

What I'm suggesting is that the Brewdog 'revolution' is nothing of the sort. They sell beer of a type that has been available forever, but they sell it to people who don't think real ale is cool.

They have (perhaps cleverly, certainly cynically) decided to 'invent' craft beer as a new and different idea - neither is it mass-marketed crap like that from Anheuser-Busch InBev and SABMiller, nor is it fusty, crusty old real ale.

The stuff in the glass is nothing new at all.

I'd suggest anyone who already drinks 'proper' beer will try a few Brewdogs and think "yes, it's fine, but why is it so expensive?"

And anyone who doesn't already drink proper beer but is lured-in by the neon and grafitti, the idea of being a punk, and still drinking at red ale at 5am will like the drinks (because they're fine) and think they've discovered something.

It's not based on brewing and a love of beer. Now at least. Maybe it was at the beginning. It now reeks of white-boards, mood-boards and "but does it fit the concept, Julian?". With a nasty, cynical, unnecessarily aggressive note to it all. The smaller end of the real ale world has one of the nicest, gentlest, most collegial atmospheres of any business. A big part of their continued survival is based on that fraternal aspect and Brewdog went straight at their throats, and for why?

They can't be what they are and what they say they are at the same time, because the two things are opposites.

This is a (very successful, fair play to them for that) plc that advertises 'equity for punks'. Who makes financial decisions based whether their self-image includes the possibility that under their shirt and tie they may be a bit of a punk? And that's who they're aimed at.

[Driver101]

SpeckledJim said:

That's not at all what I've said.

What I'm suggesting is that the Brewdog 'revolution' is nothing of the sort. They sell beer of a type that has been available forever, but they sell it to people who don't think real ale is cool.

They have (perhaps cleverly, certainly cynically) decided to 'invent' craft beer as a new and different idea - neither is it mass-marketed crap like that from Anheuser-Busch InBev and SABMiller, nor is it fusty, crusty old real ale.

The stuff in the glass is nothing new at all.

I'd suggest anyone who already drinks 'proper' beer will try a few Brewdogs and think "yes, it's fine, but why is it so expensive?"

And anyone who doesn't already drink proper beer but is lured-in by the neon and grafitti, the idea of being a punk, and still drinking at red ale at 5am will like the drinks (because they're fine) and think they've discovered something.

It's not based on brewing and a love of beer. Now at least. Maybe it was at the beginning. It now reeks of white-boards, mood-boards and "but does it fit the concept, Julian?". With a nasty, cynical, unnecessarily aggressive note to it all. The smaller end of the real ale world has one of the nicest, gentlest, most collegial atmospheres of any business. A big part of their continued survival is based on that fraternal aspect and Brewdog went straight at their throats, and for why?

They can't be what they are and what they say they are at the same time, because the two things are opposites.

This is a (very successful, fair play to them for that) plc that advertises 'equity for punks'. Who makes financial decisions based whether their self-image includes the possibility that under their shirt and tie they may be a bit of a punk? And that's who they're aimed at.

I never understood the whole punk marketing thing. I'm sure most people don't want to be called a punk. That side of the marketing seems to be fading off as I don't hear the punk term used that much these days. It was hardly an attractive advertisement to me to begin with.

What Brewdog bars have you been in with Neon and Grafitti? I've been to quite a few bars and haven't noticed anything other than a Brewdog sign outside the pubs,some frosted Brewdog emblems in the windows and the graffiti I can only assume is the chalkboards they have inside with caricatures of the employees?

Either I have my eyes closed, or your pubs are different than the ones I've been to, which all were very similar.

I personally think you're reading way too much into things and making issues about absolutely nothing. I read your opening post in this thread and thought it was odd to build up a hate for a beer company. You've certainly held that weird grudge.

I think you need to grasp people do choose to go there through there own free choice. Maybe some don't know any better, but in most towns and cities there isn't that much choice for anything other than standard lagers and often a few random ales.

People go there and people enjoy it. The clientele is wide and mixed, not the Superdry culture that you've already suggested a few times. I will say the behaviour is better in the bars as it doesn't seem to attract the people wanting the cheapest drink to get smashed out of their faces. It's a relaxing place to be rather than many of the alternative pubs.

The drinks are a bit more expensive than normal pubs, but that does help filter out a lot of the aggressive trouble and people. The prices aren't any higher than similar bars selling similar products.

The prices in the supermarket aren't that bad either. You've got plenty of other beers similarly priced and even some more expensive.

The guys have done well with the company. They've introduced people to new things in Aberdeen and the knock of effect is now more bars have opened also heading down this craft beer route. More people are drinking this stuff than ever, but we're a million miles behind the USA for availability across anything other than specialised bars.

With the competition building all the time it will be interesting if Brewdog still keep their market share.

I think you need to lower your anger towards them and your assumptions about their customers. People go there from there own free choice and enjoy it. It's pretty poor that you are making them out to be unable to make their own minds up and blinded by the marketing. However it's you that seems to be more concerned with immaterial things to most other people.

People enjoy the beers and you can back that up with numerous credible awards for their beer. It's not as if they are selling dish water to people who don't know any better as you keep telling us.

You've got a very one sided view against Brewdog which is a but weird to me.

[devnull]

You know what, I love brewdog pubs. I like their beers, I like the staff's friendly-ness, the decor in the places, and the fking strong stouts they generally server (Dog C mm mm mm).

I also like my ales cold. My FIL always passes out when he sees me chilling IPAs in the freezer. Guess I'm weird.

[Blown2CV]

truck71 said:

jogon said:

They are tapping in to the new more disconcerted younger beer drinker bored of the usual Fosters, Stellar, Peroni and Heineken usual selection on offer in 90% of bars.

Give me 1/3pt of 10% Belgian style blonde beer crafted in small batches over in San Diego over a pint of mass produced garbage any day of the week.

CAMRA is for your more mature drinker.

So, what's the difference between crafting a beer and brewing it?

Focusing on the quality of the product rather than making huge returns for investors. Not seeking to exploit pub landlords. Small business versus big business.

Interesting that people cite marketing as the key difference where big commercial businesses rely more heavily in marketing to push a substandard product, and have marketing budgets probably thousands of times the size of craft brewers.

[truck71]

Blown2CV said:

Focusing on the quality of the product rather than making huge returns for investors. Not seeking to exploit pub landlords. Small business versus big business.

Interesting that people cite marketing as the key difference where big commercial businesses rely more heavily in marketing to push a substandard product, and have marketing budgets probably thousands of times the size of craft brewers.

I agree with that, however I don't think this is "craft" brewing. It's brewing on a small scale, or if you like, micro brewing..

For me this is the point, "craft brewing" which has become the latest buzzword is nothing new. It is however being used to promote products and suggest they're something new- they're not. I do however understand the need to differentiate a "quality product" from a the run of the mill crap but lets not pretend its new. It's a brewed product of a higher quality (which is great where this actually is the case) but nothing more. I fear some people (not referring to anyone in this discussion) will get taken in by the new description and assume anything with a craft beer label must be something special. It might just be the same old crap wrapped up differently, its not like marketeers have a reputation for doing this sort of thing..

[Podie]

truck71 said:

I agree with that, however I don't think this is "craft" brewing. It's brewing on a small scale, or if you like, micro brewing..

Wikipedia said:

A microbrewery or craft brewery is a brewery that produces a small amount of beer. Exact definitions vary, but the terms are typically applied to breweries that are much smaller than large-scale corporate breweries and are independently owned.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbrewery


Have we gone full circle yet?

[truck71]

Podie said:

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbrewery


Have we gone full circle yet?

Haha, gotta love Wiki. ..definitions vary, typically applied to..

I think there's a key difference between them, when you go into your local and there's a selection of ales lined up on the jump, none of them specifically say "micro brewed ale" or such like, the name or brand is there and you take your choice or chance. Part of the fun for me is trying the un known, building up a knowledge of what I like and don't etc. At no point is anyone trying to pretend the product is anything other than a bitter, IPA, Porter etc. It may be brewed by a large brewer or a small one, the quality is what I'm interested in. As soon as Craft Beer is added to the label suddenly it "has" to be a good product, after all wiki says so..

You're right though, circle and full.

[Blown2CV]

truck71 said:

Blown2CV said:

Focusing on the quality of the product rather than making huge returns for investors. Not seeking to exploit pub landlords. Small business versus big business.

Interesting that people cite marketing as the key difference where big commercial businesses rely more heavily in marketing to push a substandard product, and have marketing budgets probably thousands of times the size of craft brewers.

I agree with that, however I don't think this is "craft" brewing. It's brewing on a small scale, or if you like, micro brewing..

For me this is the point, "craft brewing" which has become the latest buzzword is nothing new. It is however being used to promote products and suggest they're something new- they're not. I do however understand the need to differentiate a "quality product" from a the run of the mill crap but lets not pretend its new. It's a brewed product of a higher quality (which is great where this actually is the case) but nothing more. I fear some people (not referring to anyone in this discussion) will get taken in by the new description and assume anything with a craft beer label must be something special. It might just be the same old crap wrapped up differently, its not like marketeers have a reputation for doing this sort of thing..

I don't care if it's new or not. Not sure what that as to do with the discussion anyway. If it's a loose category of Brewers of whose products I seem to more often prefer, I'm happy with that. The marketing thing is complete bullst. Sponsorships, promotions, concessions, TV ads etc etc are without exception commissioned by st beer companies.